Charges or fines ?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

24 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You will soon be paying "pay per mile" on the roads - why not the canal.

what’s that about then?

how’s that going to be implemented?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

8 minutes ago, Quaffer said:

Thanks that's much clearer,it was a consultation proposal in 2005 .

This may have been from the "differential pricing" consultation that followed a decision by the Waterways Ombudsman that it was unfair to charge some private boats (i.e. shared ownership boats) at the commercial rate (i.e.  2.5x the leisure rate). Nothing much came out of this because it was found impossible to licence based on number of owners. 

It did not stop BW introducing rules that attempted to prevent all shared ownerships boats obtaining a leisure licence.

 

[MtB]

25 minutes ago, Goliath said:

what’s that about then?

how’s that going to be implemented?

 

Self declaration should work ok don't you think? E.g.:

 

"I cruised 0 miles this year".... 

 

Boaters are broadly honest. 

 

 

[Higgs]

What the principles would be stating is - Either, your licence carries a specific usage allowance, or, no licence carries any allowance, and the costs would be a licence plus accumulated usage charges. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Self declaration should work ok don't you think? E.g.:

 

"I cruised 0 miles this year".... 

 

Boaters are broadly honest. 

 

 

I was asking about roads. 
Alan said we’d soon be paying per mile on the roads. 

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I was asking about roads. 
Alan said we’d soon be paying per mile on the roads. 

 

I was taking Alan's comment to mean "they think it will work on the roads and if it does, it will probably work on canals too".

 

 

[Higgs]

I would have to ask - with what guarantee of better infrastructure. Or is it money for old rope?

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Higgs

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I was asking about roads. 
Alan said we’d soon be paying per mile on the roads. 

 

That is the proposal under discussion at the moment to try and get some claw-back of Road Fund Tax (Licence) and no fuel duty from electric vehicles

 

One of 100s of articles over the last 12 months - it is just the 1st one that came up on a Google search

 

Drivers may have to pay per mile in new Government plan - Wales Online

 

 

It said: “A new system of vehicle taxation is urgently needed. As more people purchase electric vehicles, changes to taxation will be harder to manage.

“Road pricing offers the opportunity to resolve these issues in a way that works for motorists and society.”

AA president Edmund King previously said a road pricing system could allow drivers to have 3,000 free miles - with an extra 1,000 in rural areas - before paying per journey.

 

And more :

 

UK road pricing plans: other solutions to the fuel duty ‘black hole’ are available | Auto Express

 

Sadiq Khan plans pay-per-mile road pricing for London drivers | NationalWorld

Edited April 15, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Rambling Boater]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

You will soon be paying "pay per mile" on the roads - why not the canal.

 

"The user pays" is always the best way of charging for anything.

There is another angle to this. If it wasn't for those who do cruise around the system all year round, you'd probably find those who pop out of the marina a few times a year would have nowhere to go (use it or lose it!).

 

Then again, how many people on this thread still own a narrow boat or cruise the system regularly? Or are some views coming from people who have 'been there, done it' and now get kicks out of looking down thier noses at those who still are?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Rambling Boater

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

There is another angle to this. If it wasn't for those who do cruise around the system all year round, you'd probably find those who pop out of the marina a few times a year would have nowhere to go (use it or lose it!).

 

Do you mean - those that use it are forcing CRT to consider maintenance? 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

There is another angle to this. If it wasn't for those who do cruise around the system all year round, you'd probably find those who pop out of the marina a few times a year would have nowhere to go (use it or lose it!).

 

Agreed use it or lose it' but that does not help make commercial decisions - if you can only afford  to maintain (say) 80% do you maintain the peripherals that people go out of their way to use and get the 'Silver Propellor', or do you look after the main arteries that have 99% of the traffic.

 

That choice will come.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Then again, how many people on this thread still own a narrow boat and cruise the system regularly? Or are some views coming from people who have 'been there, done it' and now get kicks out of looking down thier noses at those who still are?

 

As you well know, after about 40 years we have now left the canals, they are going 'down hill', lines of CMers, failing infrastructure, never knowing if you'd 'get home' and it was just no pleasure anymore.

We are off C&RT waters and now have no licence to pay, no BSS to pay, no infrastructure breakdowns, it brings the pleasure back to boating.

No 'looking down the nose' you and any others have the choice you can stay on C&RT waters or move off. If you decide to stay then you need to accept the situation as it evolves.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Rambling Boater]

2 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Do you mean - those that use it are forcing CRT to consider maintenance? 

 

 

This might surprise you, but those who do cruise around don't generally go around breaking things. In fact many of us report problems back to C&RT and help.

 

 

[Higgs]

3 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

This might surprise you, but those who do cruise around don't generally go around breaking things. In fact many of us report problems back to C&RT and help.

 

 

Did I imply breaking things? Things wear out. 

 

 

[Rambling Boater]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Agreed use it or lose it' but that does not help make commercial decisions - if you can only afford  to maintain (say) 80% do you maintain the peripherals that people go out of their way to use and get the 'Silver Propellor', or do you look after the main arteries that have 99% of the traffic.

 

That choice will come.

 

 

 

As you well know, after about 40 years we have now left the canals, they are going 'down hill', lines of CMers, failing infrastructure, never knowing if you'd 'get home' and it was just no pleasure anymore.

We are off C&RT waters and now have no licence to pay, no BSS to pay, no infrastructure breakdowns, it brings the pleasure back to boating.

No 'looking down the nose' you and any others have the choice you can stay on C&RT waters or move off. If you decide to stay then you need to accept the situation as it evolves.

Yes, some of us actually try to help C&RT make 'life better by water'. It's not just about failing infrastructure and money. It's also about helping people.

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

This might surprise you, but those who do cruise around don't generally go around breaking things. In fact many of us report problems back to C&RT and help.

 

 

 

 

So who is it 'breaking things' then, if not boaters?

 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

So who is it 'breaking things' then, if not boaters?

 

 

 

Obviously it means not all boaters do but unfortunately some do.

 

The clue was in the word 'generally'

 

Strewth.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Maybe CRT should start selling diesel. 
Any profits from diesel will be a direct contribution from those boaters who use it most. 
 

 

[Higgs]

In this 'new' thinking, CMERs are saving wear and tear on the infrastructure. But really, they are forced to use the infrastructure. It's something of a dilemma for them; to have to accept the damage they are being forced to do on the system. Are they never going to be on the right side of keeping people happy. 😊 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Higgs

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

I think a good moan from many boaters is what keeps them happy. 
 

[Rambling Boater]

2 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I think a good moan from many boaters is what keeps them happy. 
 

Don't you mean ex-boaters?

13 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Maybe CRT should start selling diesel. 
Any profits from diesel will be a direct contribution from those boaters who use it most. 
 

 

I've had an idea about that. I'll get rid of the engine and get a horse. It's far more environmentally friendly (runs on grass and produces manure).

 

I wonder if anyone else has tried it?

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Don't you mean ex-boaters?

 

Anyone with a licence can be presumed to be part of the boating community. And others have opinions. 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 minutes ago, Rambling Boater said:

Don't you mean ex-boaters?

No not at all. 
 

😃

 

I have my moments too

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Rambling Boater said:

Don't you mean ex-boaters?

I've had an idea about that. I'll get rid of the engine and get a horse. It's far more environmentally friendly (runs on grass and produces manure).

 

I wonder if anyone else has tried it?

We had the thread “An Horse”. 
But it didn’t seem a popular idea. 
 

 

[GUMPY]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I was taking Alan's comment to mean "they think it will work on the roads and if it does, it will probably work on canals too".

 

 

Won't work on the canals it will just mean the towpath squatters won't move at all as they will be charged for moving.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Loddon said:

Won't work on the canals it will just mean the towpath squatters won't move at all as they will be charged for moving.

 

I came up with a proposal to overcome that (it was discussed here some years ago)

 

Basically it was you paid a lump sum at the start of every year (say £5000) and for every mile you moved you got (say £x) credited to your account (or paid back or whatever)

 

CMers paid £5000 a year

Big Movers paid almost nothing.

Middle of the 'roaders' paid (say) £1000

 

The payments were on a tapering system, something like £2 per mile for the first 500 miles, £3 per mile for the next 500 miles £4 a miles for the next 500 miles.  or it could have been charger 'the other way around' £4 for the 1st 500 miles, £3 for the next 500 miles  £2 for the next 500 miles.

(but I do not have all the original calculations to hand).

 

 

You get the gist.

Trackers would be required and would automatically update your account on a monthly basis.