Charges or fines ?

[waterworks]

What ever these are i would not pay them, they are not new, the £25 a day thing has been around decades and in those days they were issued by Patrol Wardens, torn up and ignored.  The fact is that they cannot be added to your statutory licence fee and certainly your licence cannot be revoked or the renewal refused for not paying them. This is a civil court matter if they want to recover these "charges". 

[MtB]

Well they are obviously not fines as the sign is actually advertising extended stays for £25 a day.

 

I doubt they ever levy the charge as the point of the sign is to encourage people not to stay for more than a day.

[Alan de Enfield]

45 minutes ago, waterworks said:

What ever these are i would not pay them, they are not new, the £25 a day thing has been around decades and in those days they were issued by Patrol Wardens, torn up and ignored.  The fact is that they cannot be added to your statutory licence fee and certainly your licence cannot be revoked or the renewal refused for not paying them. This is a civil court matter if they want to recover these "charges". 

 

Irrespective of them being enforced or not, C&RT are legally within their rights (written into the various Waterways Acts) to charge for moorings, and / or any other services such as elsans, showers, water etc etc should they so wish.

 

Pick you battles carefully.

 

C&RTs percarious financial position could easily lead to charges not only being implemented across more of the system, but actively pursued for payment

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Pick you battles carefully.

 

 

Waterworks seems to be gagging for battles with CRT.

 

Normal people just pay CRT's reasonable changes and get on with their lives, rather than prattling on about how recovering them is  civil matter and CRT can't add them to the license fee or withhold a license. Such an idea would not even occur to most boaters who are happy to comply with reasonable rules in order to get well controlled and available moorings. 

[waterworks]

Are you relying on CRTs own interpretation of the 1962 transport act?

 

 

 

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

Other than charging to take up space on what should be a 14 day mooring, what extra services are CRT giving?

 

 

I’d expect a full English breakfast in bed for the £25.

 

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, waterworks said:

Are you relying on CRTs own interpretation of the 1962 transport act?

No.

I'll be paying six quid tomorrow to park my tub at Llangollen. There's a raft of people paying god knows how much to moor above Bosley on the towpath. Can you explain why, all of a sudden, CRT can't charge you anything to moor?

It's never sensible to pick a fight when all the evidence is against you.

3 minutes ago, Goliath said:

Other than charging to take up space on what should be a 14 day mooring, what extra services are CRT giving?

 

 

I’d expect a full English breakfast in bed for the £25.

 

I'd expect to move on, as my no doubt well planned continuous cruise proceeds...

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

10 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

'd expect to move on, as my no doubt well planned continuous cruise proceeds...

 Not before breakfast I hope?

£6 should get you a cup of tea and a bowl of porridge at least. 

[frangar]

19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

No.

I'll be paying six quid tomorrow to park my tub at Llangollen.

Funniest thing I saw in ages was my OH walking along the towpath out of Llangollen wearing her Hi Vis coat as we left the basin early one morning to check for traffic at the narrows and causing all those that hadn't paid to either try and untie their lines quickly or proffer her money.....we could have made a few quid....

 

I wonder if the OP takes the same attitude with the DVLA or private car park operators if he overstays......He might find it doesnt go that well for him....

 

[Hudds Lad]

23 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'll be paying six quid tomorrow to park my tub at Llangollen.

 

I was often surprised by how many snuck in to the moorings after the shop was shut, and then vanished at the crack of dawn just to avoid paying £6

[Bee]

The depressing thing about 'This sort of thing' is the attitude.  People pay a lot of money to use the waterways, licences and moorings are expensive and the people who use the UK waterways are customers, not some sort of bothersome pests.   Over the years rules and regs have been heaped on these customers thick and fast, some with very iffy legality. The attitude under CRT and before that BWB has always been 'Take it or leave it'  'Do as you're told' and pay up or sod off.  Cooking up more dodgy rules and sticking yet more unfriendly signs up where there were none before can feel, frankly, intimidating - just keep on going , you can't stop here unless you hand over more cash but we want you gone by tomorrow.  We hire boats from time to time, out of season to explore bits we have missed but as for owning a boat here, no thanks.

[ditchcrawler]

But what dates do these restriction, charges, fines actually apply?

[Momac]

6 hours ago, waterworks said:

What ever these are i would not pay them, they are not new, the £25 a day thing has been around decades and in those days they were issued by Patrol Wardens, torn up and ignored.  The fact is that they cannot be added to your statutory licence fee and certainly your licence cannot be revoked or the renewal refused for not paying them. This is a civil court matter if they want to recover these "charges". 

You give the impression of being a very selfish and inconsiderate person  who thinks they can overstay  and not care  at all to share a popular location with others .

[frangar]

11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

You give the impression of being a very selfish and inconsiderate person  who thinks they can overstay  and not care  at all to share a popular location with others .

Sadly its idiots with attitudes like the OP has that leads to signs like this being needed in the first place...by and large 30 years and more ago those that lived on the cut followed the few rules that existed and everyone got along just fine....in the last few years the self entitled have arrived and think they should have everything without either paying for it or thinking of others. 

Edited April 10, 2022 by frangar

[Alan de Enfield]

11 minutes ago, MartynG said:

You give the impression of being a very selfish and inconsiderate person  who thinks they can overstay  and not care  at all to share a popular location with others .

 

Nah he is one of the new-breed of boaters "the entitled" who can do what they want and no rules apply to them - only to others.

[TheBiscuits]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

Such an idea would not even occur to most boaters who are happy to comply with reasonable rules in order to get well controlled and available moorings. 

 

You must be new here ...

 

 

[MtB]

37 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You must be new here ...

 

 

 

 

I'm newer than the OP, if he turns out to be the doppel I think he might be! 

[IanD]

12 hours ago, Bee said:

The depressing thing about 'This sort of thing' is the attitude.  People pay a lot of money to use the waterways, licences and moorings are expensive and the people who use the UK waterways are customers, not some sort of bothersome pests.   Over the years rules and regs have been heaped on these customers thick and fast, some with very iffy legality. The attitude under CRT and before that BWB has always been 'Take it or leave it'  'Do as you're told' and pay up or sod off.  Cooking up more dodgy rules and sticking yet more unfriendly signs up where there were none before can feel, frankly, intimidating - just keep on going , you can't stop here unless you hand over more cash but we want you gone by tomorrow.  We hire boats from time to time, out of season to explore bits we have missed but as for owning a boat here, no thanks.

And possibly some of CART's behaviour is prompted by the kind of "entitled" attitude demonstrated by the NBTA and some posters on here, who think they should be allowed to ignore the rules (for example, on continously cruising, or overstaying on VMs) because it suits them. Which unfortunately means boaters who follow the rules and pay up are adversely affected... 😞

[Alan de Enfield]

It is getting a lot of air-time in other places - the London No Boats Travel Anywhere march on C&RT offices :

 

 

Illegal continuous moorers

That's right, they most definitely are not continuous cruisers, they most definitely are just illegal continuous moorers, they most definitely are not interested in obeying the rules and are expecting the rest of us to support them in their views.

So they cannot now moor for six months at their favourite place and go to school and work and use the local facilities for free. Well as far as I'm concerned that's just tough!

If they want to stay in one place then they need to get a long term mooring.

I'm fed up with all these so called boaters taking the Michael (I wanted to use another word here but the editor wouldn't have allowed it!). I see the same boats moored in the same place for months on end and nothing seems to get done about it by CaRT.

No sympathy with them

When CaRT do start to put a stop to some of them these continuous moorers go into meltdown because they can no longer just sit in one place to the exclusion of all others! Their bleating falls on deaf ears as us real continuous cruisers have no sympathy with them at all. We're proud to obey the rules!

In 2012 I wanted to visit London and cruise along the Paddington Arm and Regents Canal. I had to visit the city on a train at the time and found myself by the canal at St Pancras and it was totally rammed with continuous moorers. In some places there were four boats across the canal leaving just enough space for a narrowboat to get through. A widebeam would have not been able travel along there. There was nowhere for a visitor to moor at all. There were even boats breasted on the visitor moorings and water point!

That was the end of my plans for a London visit, and that was 10 years ago! The situation has not got any better, in fact as far as can see it has got worse with the cancer of continuous moorers now extending further along both the Grand Union and Stort areas?

CaRT should do something

It's about time CaRT did something about these continuous moorers instead of pandering to them. Start charging them a London rate long term mooring fee plus 20% for administration if they stay in the area for more than the allowed 14 days?

Stop putting in more and more mooring rings and facilities for them. Start taking their licences off of them unless they move. CaRT need to start doing the things they threaten us with all the time and stop pandering to the likes of the National Bargees Travellers Association and such.

CaRT just want it easy, they soon jump on someone who appears to stay in one place for a few extra days, even when they haven't and can prove it like a friend of mine had to recently? But, when it comes to those who just don't care and just sit and sit CaRT seem as if they couldn't be bothered!

Introduce a continuous moorers licence

If they really wanted to clear out the cities then they should start by charging the continuous moorers a high fee for staying there. Introduce a continuous moorers licence at three times the price of a normal one?

That will not only get most of them moving onto long term moorings but will also generate some well needed revenue for CaRT to be able to spend on maintaining the system better.

I don't very often support CaRT but in this I will lend my support to them as much as possible if they started to clear the towpaths of continuous moorers, and not just in the cities!

I've a tip for those continuous moorers who bleat endlessly on about CaRT stopping them mooring. Don't bother, we have no sympathy for you and most of us don't support your point of view on the matter! Obey the rules and we'll support you otherwise you're on your own so just shut up as we don't want to listen to your endless sob stories any more!

 

 

And of course, those ever popular waterless toilets need emptying somewhere. "I have no choice - If I move to go to the elsan station I lose my parking spot"

 

 

THESE Bargees Travellers are a bunch of freeloaders who don't want to pay for moorings to stay in the same place or pay council tax for the council services that they are using, writes Kelvin Alexander-Duggan.

Islington Tower Hamlets and Hackney councils which the Regents Canal and Lee Navigation run through are seeing a increasing demand for services from the towpath squatters.

Causing major problem

Fly tipping of human waste in public waste bins close to the canal and river in Tower Hamlets, Hackney and Islington has became a major problem for council waste staff, when one of these bags burst open. Human faeces are classed as bio-hazardous waste.

Which means that equipment has to be cleaned and disinfected before it can be used again, which is costly and it causes delays. It's not just bins where it has been dumped, bags of waste have been thrown into people's gardens. Rats are also becoming a major problem since the arrival of large numbers of towpath squatters.

People living in houses along side the canal have been abused when they make a compliant. They are having to keep their windows closed to keep out the smoke coming from what ever these boats are burning for fuel and the racket from two stroke generators for what seems to be running 24/7.

[Bee]

46 minutes ago, IanD said:

And possibly some of CART's behaviour is prompted by the kind of "entitled" attitude demonstrated by the NBTA and some posters on here, who think they should be allowed to ignore the rules (for example, on continously cruising, or overstaying on VMs) because it suits them. Which unfortunately means boaters who follow the rules and pay up are adversely affected... 😞

You have a point.  Users of the waterways range from the 'peacefully drifting along with a glass of wine' (I wish)  to the aggressively entitled who seem to look for confrontation with anybody including people like me if I am in a hire boat daring to actually move the thing.  The latter are a blasted nuisance but we can only hope that they actually learn to appreciate the cut and its history and get some sort of social responsibility in them. Holding breath and cossing fingers (briefly)

[Mad Harold]

I think most reasonable people will accept 24hr moorings to share the mooring with others at popular spots.

The problem is caused by people who do not move on, (or pay the charge) so causing problems.

I accept paying to park my car in a multi storey, as there are capital costs and maintainance,but paying to park on the road I find annoying but reluctantly agree it is necessary because if it was say, one hour parking there would be a minority who ignore this.

The law abiding majority always have to suffer because of the behavior of the minority.

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is getting a lot of air-time in other places - the London No Boats Travel Anywhere march on C&RT offices :

 

 

Illegal continuous moorers

That's right, they most definitely are not continuous cruisers, they most definitely are just illegal continuous moorers, they most definitely are not interested in obeying the rules and are expecting the rest of us to support them in their views.

So they cannot now moor for six months at their favourite place and go to school and work and use the local facilities for free. Well as far as I'm concerned that's just tough!

If they want to stay in one place then they need to get a long term mooring.

I'm fed up with all these so called boaters taking the Michael (I wanted to use another word here but the editor wouldn't have allowed it!). I see the same boats moored in the same place for months on end and nothing seems to get done about it by CaRT.

No sympathy with them

When CaRT do start to put a stop to some of them these continuous moorers go into meltdown because they can no longer just sit in one place to the exclusion of all others! Their bleating falls on deaf ears as us real continuous cruisers have no sympathy with them at all. We're proud to obey the rules!

In 2012 I wanted to visit London and cruise along the Paddington Arm and Regents Canal. I had to visit the city on a train at the time and found myself by the canal at St Pancras and it was totally rammed with continuous moorers. In some places there were four boats across the canal leaving just enough space for a narrowboat to get through. A widebeam would have not been able travel along there. There was nowhere for a visitor to moor at all. There were even boats breasted on the visitor moorings and water point!

That was the end of my plans for a London visit, and that was 10 years ago! The situation has not got any better, in fact as far as can see it has got worse with the cancer of continuous moorers now extending further along both the Grand Union and Stort areas?

CaRT should do something

It's about time CaRT did something about these continuous moorers instead of pandering to them. Start charging them a London rate long term mooring fee plus 20% for administration if they stay in the area for more than the allowed 14 days?

Stop putting in more and more mooring rings and facilities for them. Start taking their licences off of them unless they move. CaRT need to start doing the things they threaten us with all the time and stop pandering to the likes of the National Bargees Travellers Association and such.

CaRT just want it easy, they soon jump on someone who appears to stay in one place for a few extra days, even when they haven't and can prove it like a friend of mine had to recently? But, when it comes to those who just don't care and just sit and sit CaRT seem as if they couldn't be bothered!

Introduce a continuous moorers licence

If they really wanted to clear out the cities then they should start by charging the continuous moorers a high fee for staying there. Introduce a continuous moorers licence at three times the price of a normal one?

That will not only get most of them moving onto long term moorings but will also generate some well needed revenue for CaRT to be able to spend on maintaining the system better.

I don't very often support CaRT but in this I will lend my support to them as much as possible if they started to clear the towpaths of continuous moorers, and not just in the cities!

I've a tip for those continuous moorers who bleat endlessly on about CaRT stopping them mooring. Don't bother, we have no sympathy for you and most of us don't support your point of view on the matter! Obey the rules and we'll support you otherwise you're on your own so just shut up as we don't want to listen to your endless sob stories any more!

 

 

And of course, those ever popular waterless toilets need emptying somewhere. "I have no choice - If I move to go to the elsan station I lose my parking spot"

 

 

THESE Bargees Travellers are a bunch of freeloaders who don't want to pay for moorings to stay in the same place or pay council tax for the council services that they are using, writes Kelvin Alexander-Duggan.

Islington Tower Hamlets and Hackney councils which the Regents Canal and Lee Navigation run through are seeing a increasing demand for services from the towpath squatters.

Causing major problem

Fly tipping of human waste in public waste bins close to the canal and river in Tower Hamlets, Hackney and Islington has became a major problem for council waste staff, when one of these bags burst open. Human faeces are classed as bio-hazardous waste.

Which means that equipment has to be cleaned and disinfected before it can be used again, which is costly and it causes delays. It's not just bins where it has been dumped, bags of waste have been thrown into people's gardens. Rats are also becoming a major problem since the arrival of large numbers of towpath squatters.

People living in houses along side the canal have been abused when they make a compliant. They are having to keep their windows closed to keep out the smoke coming from what ever these boats are burning for fuel and the racket from two stroke generators for what seems to be running 24/7.

 

 

Is this your own opinion or did you copy and paste it from soemwhere?

 

 

[frangar]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

Is this your own opinion or did you copy and paste it from soemwhere?

 

 

Looks like a NBW article from the tone of it to me! 

[MtB]

Just now, frangar said:

Looks like a NBW article from the tone of it to me! 

 

It is. I just googled a bit of it and came up with NBW.

 

 

 

I was going to tell Alan it is only good manners to quote a source and give a link, but NBW have earned the right not to get this. 

 

 

[frangar]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

It is. I just googled a bit of it and came up with NBW.

 

 

 

I was going to tell Alan it is only good manners to quote a source and give a link, but NBW have earned the right not to get this. 

 

 

I couldn’t be bothered to Google it but the house style both in content and grammar seemed to fit….does anyone actually visit that site still?