Normal bikes, ebikes, and exercise regimes for older liveaboards

[Tony1]

 

Apologies for going over old ground again- this is one I expect will be of interest only to the committed enthusiasts. 

I'm raising this topic again because the health benefits issue has become more prominent in my thinking.

I bought a replacement ebike a few months ago, but I'm now starting to wonder if ebikes are a great idea for liveaboard boaters with my sort of lifestyle, in particular from a health point of view. 

 

I'm a bit torn about it, because on one hand I found the previous ebike invaluable on the hills, and on the longer rides to go shopping.

As an example, the A495 heading east out of Ellesmere has a huge hill, and the ebike made it easily doable, albeit in the low gear. The lower hills it just breezes up with barely a gearchange needed. 

And it was great last summer to be able to arrive at the supermarket 6 miles away and not even be out of breath, let alone soaked in sweat (as I might have been without the ebike, on those hot days).  And the bumpy, grassy towpaths are so much easier to ride over with electrical assistance. 

 

But I'm wondering if its all too easy. Certainly my heart rate doesnt greatly increase on say a 3 mile ebike ride, and I usually arrive breathing almost normally, and barely panting.

And I know I'm not getting enough vigorous exercise, but then its not always easy to do that.

Jogging isnt a great option, as I have a dodgy knee that would probably flare up if I pushed it too hard.

 

I understand that its recommended that even over 60, people should still try to take maybe 20 mins of moderately vigorous exercise on most days, but its just not happening often enough.

I'm basically forced to use a bike every other day just to shop and visit places, so it seem like a great opportunity to get in some regular vigorous exercise.

 

So the bottom line is I'm now starting to wonder if I should turn off the motor assist, and get some hard exercise in on the bike. 

Or better still, since the bike is pig ugly, sell it and get a decent quality folder, like the tern BYB. 

 

I have heard of that famous study where they concluded that ebikes are as healthy to ride as normal bikes- but after a year of ebiking, I'm afraid I disagree, at least in the case of those boaters whose bike is their primary transport. 

 

But I'm curious also about the wider issue of how much vigorous exercise is advisable for people in their 50s, 60s and 70s respectively. Perhaps the answer changes as you get older. 

And also in how people are approaching the issue of exercise. Perhaps they regard a brisk dog walk as enough exercise, for example? 

 

This is the ugly duckling I currently have:

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

I have this cracked, sorted it 100 percent. I bought a house in the middle of a street on a fairly steep hill. There are two pubs, one a few hundred yards uphill, the other about 200 yards downhill. the genius is, the more I got to the pub, be it uphill or initialy downhill, the more exercise I get, I have to do some uphill walking whichever pub I attend. Genius eh 

[GUMPY]

Age 69 (for another two weeks) I do 17+ minutes / 4km on the rowing machine, set to the hardest setting, six mornings a week, I try and make that every week but I miss days when we are away. A year ago I was doing 30mins on a lower setting  but have been a bit slack of late. 😯

I am by no means as fit as I could be but am 10kg lighter than I was before covid arrived.

 

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have this cracked, sorted it 100 percent. I bought a house in the middle of a street on a fairly steep hill. There are two pubs, one a few hundred yards uphill, the other about 200 yards downhill. the genius is, the more I got to the pub, be it uphill or initialy downhill, the more exercise I get, I have to do some uphill walking whichever pub I attend. Genius eh 

But it's easier to roll out of the pub downhill than have to crawl back up the hill after a skinfull

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

I have this cracked, sorted it 100 percent. I bought a house in the middle of a street on a fairly steep hill. There are two pubs, one a few hundred yards uphill, the other about 200 yards downhill. the genius is, the more I got to the pub, be it uphill or initialy downhill, the more exercise I get, I have to do some uphill walking whichever pub I attend. Genius eh 

Yes.

I have the choice of a half hour brisk walk to one pub

or an hour’s walk to another.

Job done. 
 

 

[Mad Harold]

I am sure you all know what the only excercise a gentleman should take, is.

😰

[Tony1]

 

I'm sensing a common theme of pubs/boozing being a motivational factor in the exercise regime... 

 

The rational man in me cant disagree with any of this, but I'm not sure Roger Bannister would be proud. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I am sure you all know what the only excercise a gentleman should take, is.

😰

 

I would heed the old actor's advice- you should never go full Leslie Phillips.

 

 

[Nightwatch]

200 yds to the pub. Takes 2.5 minutes to get to the pub. 18 minutes to get back home. The difference is staggering.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, Tony1 said:

The rational man in me cant disagree with any of this, but I'm not sure Roger Bannister would be proud. 

 

I’m sure he’d be the fastest to the pub.

And as a reward have to get the first round in. 

Maybe he learned to slow down a bit. 
 

😃

[Mike Hurley]

I bought a new mountain bike last year, also toyed with the ebike idea, stayed with pedal power in the end because i was buying it for exercise not transport. I have a car and motorcycle and 2 mountain bikes, all bases covered. They have their uses just not for me.

[blackrose]

I'm 60 in a month and this is what I do as often as I can. When I first got it could only do a few minutes, now I do 25 mins with weights around my ankles to increase resistance. My boat has a ceiling height of 6'10" but it's still lucky I'm short.

 

 

[Higgs]

11 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I'm 60 in a month and this is what I do as often as I can. When I first got it could only do a few minutes, now I do 25 mins with weights around my ankles to increase resistance. My boat has a ceiling height of 6'10" but it's still lucky I'm short.

 

I bought an exercising rowing contraption, of a similar build quality. It packs up small. But I ended up putting bicycle inner tubes on it, to augment the resistance of the hydraulic cylinder. It does get boring, as did any fitness club I ever joined. As an alternative, I cycle at least 14 miles every week, and throw in a 4k jog. More like a shuffle. 

 

I did put on six kilos throughout Covid. Managed to get rid of five. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Higgs

[blackrose]

Yes exercise is boring but you've just got to force yourself to do it. You always feel so much better afterwards. Part of the reason I exercise is because I feel better mentally as well as physically.

 

I normally switch the TV on while I'm on that contraption to take my mind off the boredom.

[roland elsdon]

Cheap road bikes reviewed in cycling this month. Decathalon did well.

keep the e bike and buy a road bikefor fair weather and fun rides

[Tony1]

5 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

Cheap road bikes reviewed in cycling this month. Decathalon did well.

keep the e bike and buy a road bikefor fair weather and fun rides

 

Thanks Roland, and tbh I should have explained that I also have an electric Brompton that I got for longer journeys involving trains, hotel stays, etc, because it can literally go everywhere with you.

 

The second ebike (the ugly one) was intended to be more of a workhorse, for day to day shopping and errands, so I fitted knobbly tyre to cope with towpaths and country lanes.

But a few months later, my feeling now is that by using an ebike for shopping, I'm actually missing out on a great opportunity for really vigorous exercise- an opportunity that at my age I would really benefit from taking.

The fact is that as a liveaboard without a car, you have to get out and travel to fetch your shopping every few days, and to visit local places. You don't have much of an option. It can be 1 mile, or it can be 7 miles. 

 

And if those trips (or at least the shorter ones) are going to be taken by normal pushbike in future, then I have to rethink what is the role of the brompton, especially because I only use it once every 3 months, when I go travelling by train. 

My thinking is that maybe as you say I should keep a workhorse ebike for the longer or more brutal rides where I know there is a ridiculous hill involved, and that means maybe I should sell the brompton. 

 

I was hoping to keep the brompton to use for the occasional longer trip of 7 or more miles each way, but of course those happen when you're in the rural locations, and it is really an urban bike, and those trips would be better and more comfortable on my current workhorse ebike.

The brompton's small and thin 16 inch tyres are pumped up so hard that the ride is really harsh on a bumpy towpath, and in wet/muddy conditions I dont feel 100% safe on some of the potholed and deeply rutted country lanes. 

 

Where the brompton really shines is when you need to get a train or a bus, as it folds downs so small. And if your supermarket is in a rough-looking area, you can take it into the shop and wheel it around with you. It's so versatile for travelling that I really want to keep it, but I can only have two bikes.

 

One solution would be to keep the workhorse ebike, and to buy something like this Tern BYB for my day to day rides:

 

https://velorution.com/bikes/tern-byb-p8-matte-blue.html

 

The BYB would fit in most places where a brompton would, and it even has a trolley function like the brompton, so you can push it around inside a shop or train station. 

As much as it will hurt to see it go, maybe its the electric brompton that needs to go.....

 

 

 

[Higgs]

9 hours ago, blackrose said:

Yes exercise is boring but you've just got to force yourself to do it. You always feel so much better afterwards. Part of the reason I exercise is because I feel better mentally as well as physically.

 

I normally switch the TV on while I'm on that contraption to take my mind off the boredom.

 

The indoor stuff is boring. Outdoors is better. I'd also have more injuries at a gym, using their equipment. The only thing I miss is the sauna. Bought one of those fitness watches, but it hardly gets used. Can't even change the time on it, without setting up an account. Should have done more research. I hate those bits of tech. Anyway, since the clocks went forward, it reads the right time again. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Higgs

[Higgs]

8 hours ago, roland elsdon said:

Cheap road bikes reviewed in cycling this month. Decathalon did well.

keep the e bike and buy a road bikefor fair weather and fun rides

 

I finally found a good bike.  After persevering with a mountain bike for ages, it finally got given away. I now use a Claude Butler Explorer 100. 28" wheels. It's aluminium, apart from the front forks. I wouldn't use it on the towpath. but unless it's really peeing it down, it's used. It does mean investing in decent cycling and clothing gear. And a decent seat.  

 

I'd pestered a friend to sell me the bike. That went on, until he bought a Ridgeback cycle. When he decided to sell the Explorer, I thought of a figure I'd pay, but didn't say what it was. When he said £60, I think it was a friend's deal, and I wasn't going to volunteer the higher figure I had in mind. 

 

As an aside, he's planning to see his kids next January, in Australia. He absolutely cannot stand to do it again in economy class, after 12 previous trips to Australia. At a bit below £4,000 for business class, I'm not sure which is more painful - the cost of business or the discomfort of economy class. I guess economy was really uncomfortable. It had to be, if he's going to part with that much money. I know him. 

 

I cycle 14 miles on a Saturday, to visit him. He complains about the cost of heating. He knows my boat is always warm, but I get through the door of his place and he says, with a mean grin - "the heating's been on, but I switched it off, just before you got here."  

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Higgs

[Jen-in-Wellies]

8 hours ago, Tony1 said:

And if those trips (or at least the shorter ones) are going to be taken by normal pushbike in future, then I have to rethink what is the role of the brompton, especially because I only use it once every 3 months, when I go travelling by train. 

I finally sold my Brompton last summer. It was bought for cycle commuting by train and was brilliant at that, but I've not done that for years and, like you, the few train trips I now do make it not really worth the space on board the boat; small though that is. Fortunately, Bromptons hold their value really well, so I sold it for almost as much as I originally paid for it. An electric Brompton will have depreciated very little, if you do sell.

 

Currently have two bikes. An old steel road bike and a mountain bike. Neither are electric yet, despite my being based in a very hilly area much of the time! For big shopping trips and other load carrying tasks, I have a home made trailer (lock down project) that gets towed by the mountain bike and borrows its wheels from the road bike when required. The rest of the time it packs flat against a wall in the boat. I also made a cradle that will take a 13kg propane cylinder, though this hasn't been modified yet to fit the mark two version of the trailer. The mountain bike is great for muddy tow paths and even gets used for mountain biking on occasion! Must admit I have been toying with the idea of an electric conversion kit for one of the bikes.

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I finally sold my Brompton last summer. It was bought for cycle commuting by train and was brilliant at that, but I've not done that for years and, like you, the few train trips I now do make it not really worth the space on board the boat; small though that is. Fortunately, Bromptons hold their value really well, so I sold it for almost as much as I originally paid for it. An electric Brompton will have depreciated very little, if you do sell.

 

Currently have two bikes. An old steel road bike and a mountain bike. Neither are electric yet, despite my being based in a very hilly area much of the time! For big shopping trips and other load carrying tasks, I have a home made trailer (lock down project) that gets towed by the mountain bike and borrows its wheels from the road bike when required. The rest of the time it packs flat against a wall in the boat. I also made a cradle that will take a 13kg propane cylinder, though this hasn't been modified yet to fit the mark two version of the trailer. The mountain bike is great for muddy tow paths and even gets used for mountain biking on occasion! Must admit I have been toying with the idea of an electric conversion kit for one of the bikes.

 

How do you stow the bikes when cruising?

Mine is a smallish cruiser stern and I previously had a folding 26 inch wheel ebike, but even folded and set to one side it felt like it got in the way a bit when getting on and off that side of the stern in a hurry, e.g. a locks. And the tiller kept on knocking into it when I was pushing it over to that side.

I cant imagine how people manage with two of them, but I have seen a few. 

 

The roof is mostly full of panels so thats no good, and the cratch is too small for a full size bike.

And the few times I hoisted the 26kg folding e-MTB into the cratch from the bank, I was worried about injuring myself because of the awkward stretch needed to lower it into there gently. 

So I've some to the conclusion that only folding bikes are going to work for me, as a sort of starting point- and that full size bikes are a bit too much hassle to be worth the extra ride comfort they give.  

 

The thing about the Brompton is that (in my opinion) its just too harsh for moderately bumpy towpaths on a year-round basis, and exactly as you say, I cant justify the space when its only used for rail and bus trips every couple of months.

The Tern BYB would replace it, and that does fold down fairly small, so it could do rail (and hopefully bus) trips, but the big thing about the tern is the 20 inch wheels mean it can fit fatter tyres, and so it can be used on stretches of towpath and potholed country roads.

 

You can ride the Brompton on rough towpaths it as long as its not too muddy, but I think it batters the bike and it certainly batters the rider, and punctures are more frequent. 

The folding e-MTB on the other hand was brilliant on rough towpaths, with its full size wheels and full suspension, but it was a cheap model bought from Amazon and the rear hub motor failed after just over a year. I must say as well, the extra kick from the motor really helped to get along the towpaths.  

If I was going to electrify one of two bikes. I think it would be the MTB type, and I'd get a suspension seat post if it doesnt have rear suspension on it.

It cant be denied that are some days when you could do with an electric motor- I had a couple of days last Autumn when my knee was feeling a bit weak, and the ebike is great for those days. 

 

But I have found plenty of towpaths where I couldnt even safely ride the eMTB. The mud was sometimes just too deep and/or too widespread, and the bike was squirreling around all over the place, so I dismounted and pushed it, rather than risk a fall. 

Like you I have a trailer, but I'm finding that for shopping I use a rucksack more often (not least because then I don't have to worry about locking the trailer outside a supermarket, as it disassembles a bit too easily to be really secure in the rougher towns).

In the summer heat the rucksack is much less pleasant than panniers, so I might be rethinking that this year.

My idea for the trailer was more to fetch an emergency gas bottle or bag of coal from somewhere a few miles away, but so far that hasnt arisen. 

 

On the health benefits, I'm not sure whether vigorous regular exercise is the sort of thing that would help to prolong my life (in the way that eating more healthy foods might do, say), because in my case I feel the biggest risk is probably a cardiac event.

So as a 'survival' strategy, exercise probably not going to be as much help as other things, but I have to say you do feel rather invigorated after a slog up a hill- as long as it doesnt go on too long!

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Tony1

[Jen-in-Wellies]

37 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

How do you stow the bikes when cruising?

I had the advantage of fitting my boat out. Reverse layout and I designed in space in the kitchen for a couple of push bikes. OK for me to lift a non-electric bike in and out the stern hatch on to the deck. There isn't an easy answer to this problem for most boaters and folders are probably the way to go.

 

Agree with you that Bromptons are not suited to regular use on tow paths that haven't had the Sustrans treatment. I also use a rucksack for most shops. The trailer is for heavier and/or bulky things. Big boxes of washing powder, multipacks of bog roll, etc. Having cycled with a 20l jerry can of diesel in a rucksack, I'd never try that again!

 

As far as health and longevity, the literal killer is sitting on your backside for much of the day at home, work, or car/bus/train travel. A walk, or bike ride most days, enough to start getting you out of breath reduces the risk of conking out over any time period a lot. As others have said, there are definite mental health improvements too.

[MoominPapa]

If you decide to sell, may be interested, depending on price. PM me if so.

 

MP.

[Tony1]

12 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I had the advantage of fitting my boat out. Reverse layout and I designed in space in the kitchen for a couple of push bikes. OK for me to lift a non-electric bike in and out the stern hatch on to the deck. There isn't an easy answer to this problem for most boaters and folders are probably the way to go.

 

Agree with you that Bromptons are not suited to regular use on tow paths that haven't had the Sustrans treatment. I also use a rucksack for most shops. The trailer is for heavier and/or bulky things. Big boxes of washing powder, multipacks of bog roll, etc. Having cycled with a 20l jerry can of diesel in a rucksack, I'd never try that again!

 

As far as health and longevity, the literal killer is sitting on your backside for much of the day at home, work, or car/bus/train travel. A walk, or bike ride most days, enough to start getting you out of breath reduces the risk of conking out over any time period a lot. As others have said, there are definite mental health improvements too.

 

Thanks for the info Jen. I have a further issue in that my stern door is a single door, not the normal double hatch type, and its only about 18 inches wide, so a full size bike wont fit through. 

 

And that's made me realise I need to check the folded width of the Tern bike I'm thinking of (the potential Brompton replacement), and make sure that it will fit through the narrow stern doorway. Phew.

 

In my case a 20 inch folder is the best all round compromise. Those 16 inch wheels on the brommie are a bit too hard core for me, and I cant really store a full size bike.  Good luck with fitting an ekit if you go down that route. If you have a good quality base bike it makes sense- too many of the lower-end ebikes have poor quality components, like brakes that dont do a good job going downhill in the rain- which of course is when you really want them. 

One thing I will say for the brommie, it is beautifully made. It doesnt have disc brakes for example, just old fashioned V type- but they are so well designed and made that it stops much better and safer than my old disc-brake equipped e-MTB used to do. Or the new one, which judders and squeals at times.

You really do get what you pay for with some of these high end bikes, its not just hype. Hopefully Tern will be of a similar standard.

 

   

 

[IanD]

14 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks for the info Jen. I have a further issue in that my stern door is a single door, not the normal double hatch type, and its only about 18 inches wide, so a full size bike wont fit through. 

 

And that's made me realise I need to check the folded width of the Tern bike I'm thinking of (the potential Brompton replacement), and make sure that it will fit through the narrow stern doorway. Phew.

 

In my case a 20 inch folder is the best all round compromise. Those 16 inch wheels on the brommie are a bit too hard core for me, and I cant really store a full size bike.  Good luck with fitting an ekit if you go down that route. If you have a good quality base bike it makes sense- too many of the lower-end ebikes have poor quality components, like brakes that dont do a good job going downhill in the rain- which of course is when you really want them. 

One thing I will say for the brommie, it is beautifully made. It doesnt have disc brakes for example, just old fashioned V type- but they are so well designed and made that it stops much better and safer than my old disc-brake equipped e-MTB used to do. Or the new one, which judders and squeals at times.

You really do get what you pay for with some of these high end bikes, its not just hype. Hopefully Tern will be of a similar standard.

 

 

As usual, there's no perfect solution. Bromptons are expensive and very well made but are certainly not ideal for rough muddy towpaths -- though I rode a Moulton with the same size wheels for miles daily along the GU towpath for a couple of years, and some sections of that in the early 80s were pretty horrible -- but they do have the advantage of being much easier to find space for on a narrowboat than anything else.

 

Folding bikes with 20" wheels are better on bad towpaths but need considerably more space, full-size bikes even more so. Unless you're willing to just chuck it on the roof (and have it nicked) a bike on a boat can be a pain (literally...) if you keep falling over it -- so I'd say the key is to figure out what you can fit in and store securely first, and then find the best towpath-friendly bike second.

 

I've found cycling (along the towpath!) for two or three hours a week over the last year has made a big difference to my fitness, weight and blood pressure -- with only one puncture and one dunking so far... 😞

Edited April 6, 2022 by IanD

[Tony1]

17 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

As usual, there's no perfect solution. Bromptons are expensive and very well made but are certainly not ideal for rough muddy towpaths -- though I rode a Moulton with the same size wheels for miles daily along the GU towpath for a couple of years, and some sections of that in the early 80s were pretty horrible -- but they do have the advantage of being much easier to find space for on a narrowboat than anything else.

 

Folding bikes with 20" wheels are better on bad towpaths but need considerably more space, full-size bikes even more so. Unless you're willing to just chuck it on the roof (and have it nicked) a bike on a boat can be a pain (literally...) if you keep falling over it -- so I'd say the key is to figure out what you can fit in and store securely first, and then find the best towpath-friendly bike second.

 

What puts me off the brompton is not just the wheel diameter but the narrow tyres. This reduced air volume means the normal tyre pressure is 80 PSI or more. Many run them around 100 PSI. This combination makes the ride a bit too harsh for my particular tastes, but as I said that is only my own opinion. I have seen other people using them as towpath transport. 

 

I have estimated that a 20 inch folder (Tern BYB) will squeeze through the stern door and fit in the space currently occupied by the brommie, so that bit is already done. The Tern is one of the most compact 20 inch folders on the market, and even has a trolley function.

I'll probably ask my brother to store the brommie for a few months whilst I live with the new bike, and then make a final decision. 

 

I have considered a cheap 'roof' bike, but I've done enough shopping trips down steep hills in the rain to appreciate that good quality components can make journeys much more safe and relaxed at times, so I feel a decent quality bike would be preferable.

The worry is that if your bike is too good, it will be a target for proper bike thieves. 

I'm hoping the tern, as a lesser known brand, will strike a middle ground where it has decent quality but is not expensive enough to be a target. 

 One of the things about the brompton is that you can literally never leave it locked outside a supermarket in any normal town. They are too tempting for thieves, and especially so the electric model, which costs around 3k. 

Even in nicer towns like Whitchurch or Nantwich you would be concerned leaving a brompton out of your sight. 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2022 by Tony1

[IanD]

23 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

What puts me off the brompton is not just the wheel diameter but the narrow tyres. This reduced air volume means the normal tyre pressure is 80 PSI or more. Many run them around 100 PSI. This combination makes the ride a bit too harsh for my particular tastes, but as I said that is only my own opinion. I have seen other people using them as towpath transport. 

 

I have estimated that a 20 inch folder (Tern BYB) will squeeze through the stern door and fit in the space currently occupied by the brommie, so that bit is already done. The Tern is one of the most compact 20 inch folders on the market, and even has a trolley function.

I'll probably ask my brother to store the brommie for a few months whilst I live with the new bike, and then make a final decision. 

 

I have considered a cheap 'roof' bike, but I've done enough shopping trips down steep hills in the rain to appreciate that good quality components can make journeys much more safe and relaxed at times, so I feel a decent quality bike would be preferable.

The worry is that if your bike is too good, it will be a target for proper bike thieves. 

I'm hoping the tern, as a lesser known brand, will strike a middle ground where it has decent quality but is not expensive enough to be a target. 

 One of the things about the brompton is that you can literally never leave it locked outside a supermarket in any normal town. They are too tempting for thieves, and especially so the electric model, which costs around 3k. 

Even in nicer towns like Whitchurch or Nantwich you would be concerned leaving a brompton out of your sight. 

 

 

I expect you're right that the Tern BYB will be less of a thief magnet than a Brompton, but it's just as expensive (there are cheaper Terns though)... 😉

 

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/buying-guides/4528/best-folding-bikes-travel-smarter

https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/outdoor-activity/cycling/best-folding-bikes-a88061.html

Edited April 6, 2022 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

We had a 45 foot Reeves NB.

When the pumpout tank was removed and the bathroom / bed was re-jigged a narrow 'double decker wardrobe' was built between the bed and the bathroom bulkhead. This acommodated two folding bikes (one on the shelf above the other) and only took up a minimal amount of space.