Boating Expenses

[Jash]

I am currently working out the finances and comparing my options... 

 

I would greatly appreciate a personal insight into your monthly/annual expenses living on a narrow boat full time. I'm aware different circumstances will effect this so costs will vary. 

 

For example: utilities, mooring fees, insurances,  your boat maintenance costs and anything else that you're happy to share. 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

[David Mack]

There's a few previous threads on the subject if you have a dig around.

 

And David Johns covered it a couple of years ago.

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by David Mack

[mrsmelly]

7 minutes ago, Jash said:

I am currently working out the finances and comparing my options... 

 

I would greatly appreciate a personal insight into your monthly/annual expenses living on a narrow boat full time. I'm aware different circumstances will effect this so costs will vary. 

 

For example: utilities, mooring fees, insurances,  your boat maintenance costs and anything else that you're happy to share. 

 

Thank you

 

 

 

If you own the boat its much more expensive to live on a boat than it is to live in a house you own. Its only cheaper living on a boat if you dont have a mooring and cc. As you say though, the variables are enormous, therefore its deffo a piece of string question.

[Tony1]

In addition to the routine charges- you'll be able to list those out via that video, and in other easily-accessible places- I would add in a budget for improvements during the first year or two aboard. 

 

How much you spend on improvements depends on your budget, and how much you want/need the thing you are after.  

 

Some people who live in poor signal areas, and who like having pretty solid internet access, might spend a couple of hundred on a router and an external aerial of some sort. Some people spend a couple of thousand on lithium batteries because they get fed up charging their lead acids for hours on end. 

Some will give up their car and then want an ebike to go shopping, which might easily be £1500, and sometimes much more. 

Some opt to install solar panels, which can be another few hundred quid.

The point is that once you are on board and get a feel for how everything works, there will be some things that you want to upgrade, even though they still work.

Its a very variable thing, and depends on what you can live with and how much you have to spend, but in my case I took tej plunge and spent big on lithium batteries, for example, because it was time to replace the lead acids, and I thought it would be worth upgrading.    

Another thing I did was to spend £200 on soundproofing sheets to go underneath my engine cover board, and tbh it was money very well spent. It has transformed the experience of cruising the boat. It wasnt essential, but it made things much more pleasant.

Also tools- there are a whole raft of tools that I suddenly needed for working on 12v boat electrics with the big fat cables, and other things, and it all adds up, so there will be a budget for tools. 

Its these bits and bobs that create the unexpected dents in your budget.

 

 

[Slow and Steady]

It depends how you live. While people on this board love to say it's expensive it doesn't have to be. I live on a 60ft boat in a marina with my grown up son and also run/maintain a classic 70's VW camper. We spend under £10K/year total - that's for both of us, not £10K each and covers everything, not just boating expenses. Some years we get it down to £7-8K. Obviously we don't drink, I'm pretty sure my ex used to spend that much on gin and CDs.

 

Not everyone would enjoy such a simple lifestyle but we're not luddites, we have internet and computers and I have a music production/mixing "studio" on board. What we are is skint so we live within our means. It's been a mild winter - every little helps.

Edited March 29, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[Bee]

The things like licence, moorings, insurance etc make it more expensive than living in a house although if you are renting a flat then a boat can be a bit more economical, that depends largely on the length and width of the boat and you are largely stuck with those costs. Upkeep? that can be somewhere between a couple of hundred a year to  a small fortune. Boat owners nowadays use professionals far more than in years gone by due partly to the amount of sophistication of the stuff in boats and the nervousness of actually touching anything.  That might be OK for superyacht owners with millions in the bank but if you can't fix stuff then your costs can be very high indeed. Everybody has expensive years, a few duff batteries, a gearbox problem, a dry docking with a few gallons of expensive paint, a topsides repaint and so on but if you do it yourself then you can avoid a lot of heavy expense. Learning how to paint is a good start - its not as easy as it looks.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Its only cheaper living on a boat if you dont have a mooring and cc.

 

Or more accurately, cm. 

 

If you CC anything like you mean it, then your fuel, oil and engine servicing costs broadly match the money you would have spent on a mooring. 

[Tony1]

24 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Or more accurately, cm. 

 

If you CC anything like you mean it, then your fuel, oil and engine servicing costs broadly match the money you would have spent on a mooring. 

 

Now I will say that this all depends on what people feel is their own definition of CCing- and lets be honest there are 30,000 different definitions of that.

The basic CRT rule on CCing is so easy to comply with that it doesnt really count as a definition of actual CCing, in what I personally feel to be the true spirit of the phrase. 

 

And that is not a criticism at all.

People all have their own budgets, careers and local obligations to keep them within a given area, and as long as they dont spend a week on a 48 hour mooring, then good luck to them in their endeavours, I say. 

 

But let's use the example of, say, a rather dashing gentleman in his late 50s, who was lucky enough to be able to retire a bit early and is currently CCing. Let's imagine that our handsome hero cruises on two days per week, because he likes to spend a few days exploring the local area.

Is he CCing when he only cruises two days per week? I personally would say that he is, but some might say not.

But we need a definition.

So if we agreed that he was CCing, then he would be using about 10 litres of diesel per week as he made his stately progress around the system.

Our theoretical (but very handsome) cruiser would also, by the way, have his electricity supply provided by solar (did I mention he was shrewd, as well as handsome?)- so he would not be using lots of diesel to create electricity for most of the year. 

 

When our handsome example of a boater stayed in his local marina, he was charged a bit under £300 per month.

So by my admittedly very simple reckoning, he would be paying a lot less for the expenses of CCing than he did when he was in a marina, even when he cruises 5 hours a day, and twice a week. 

 

He did like it in the marina though.

So he said.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Tony1

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

He did like it in the marina though.

So he said.

 

He was lying! 

 

How can anyone possibly like it in a marina?! (Except, arguably, Alvecote?)

[Tony1]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

He was lying! 

 

How can anyone possibly like it in a marina?! (Except, arguably, Alvecote?)

 

He said he liked the electrical cable and the hose being within 10 feet of the boat all the time. He did say that.

But then he said he felt his soaring free spirit was crushed by the restrictions of marina life, and he had to break free to realise his true self. 

He's a complicated character.

 

[MtB]

11 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

He said he liked the electrical cable and the hose being within 10 feet of the boat all the time. He did say that.

But then he said he felt his soaring free spirit was crushed by the restrictions of marina life, and he had to break free to realise his true self. 

He's a complicated character.

 

 

Did he also mention loving looking out onto the same set five boats surrounding him every day of the year and paying £3k for the privilege, instead of a nice view of the cut and the beautiful countryside? 

 

Cynical? Moi?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Did he also mention loving looking out onto the same set five boats surrounding him every day of the year and paying £3k for the privilege, instead of a nice view of the cut and the beautiful countryside? 

 

Cynical? Moi?

 

Marina moorings suit loads of people.

 

Its about choice,

 

Do you have a problem with people making different choices to you?

 

If so can, you explain why that might be?

[Tony1]

18 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Did he also mention loving looking out onto the same set five boats surrounding him every day of the year and paying £3k for the privilege, instead of a nice view of the cut and the beautiful countryside? 

 

Cynical? Moi?

 

 

I think some people just like being on boats.

It wouldn't matter if they were living aboard in a marina for 10 months of year, and barely moving the boat.

To some people it would be enough to just be living on a boat, because that is the lifestyle that makes them happy.

But for me personally, its not all about boats. There has to be a payoff for living in a reduced living space, with battery electrics, restricted water use (at times), etc etc. 

And the payoff in my case is that you can move around. 

 

Despite all the compromises, the CCer has one thing that a bricks-and-mortar dweller doesn't- they can change their location whenever they feel like.

I am planning to move onto the Macc soon, and perhaps after that down to the Sharpness. But I may well change my mind, and head East instead for the Autumn.

 

That mobility is what makes it worth the compromises, at least for me anyway. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Tony1

[Chagall]

Marina dwellers can have it both ways, move off whenever they want to and return for the winter and that ease of electric and water on hand.  CCing can be hard especially with advancing age, if the right marina is found it doesn't have to be 3k plus. 

 

I agree it is sometimes just about living on a boat, the lifestyle and a unique home is what its all about for me, and even if I dont get out as much as I can yet, its knowing I can escape that beats bricks and mortar. 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Chagall

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Did he also mention loving looking out onto the same set five boats surrounding him every day of the year and paying £3k for the privilege, instead of a nice view of the cut and the beautiful countryside? 

 

Cynical? Moi?

 

Cynical and possibly a bit limited in outlook when it comes to waterways and marina moorings.

 

This is the view from my mooring in a marina. Yes it has the same two boats on either side, but it probably beats most views from the ditches. My previous marina mooring was actually online on a river bank.Again it had beautiful views all around.

 

You really should get out more and see what's available beyond the confines of the canals.

 

 

Edited March 29, 2022 by blackrose

[Chagall]

The view from the end of my marina mooring.

 

 

 

 

[LadyG]

6 hours ago, David Mack said:

There's a few previous threads on the subject if you have a dig around.

 

And David Johns covered it a couple of years ago.

 

The   bit I would elaborate on is "boat expenses", these are probably nearer £1000 in my experience, but that is cos I want to really keep on top of maintenance rather than doing the minimum, also I am retired, so have time to do painting myself, I hauled out last year to do the hull, cost about £1250, including anodes. This year I hauled out for repairs, and I intend to paint the topsides, so that will probably be another £1250 this year. You could be lucky and buy a boat that needs no maintenance except blacking, which could be  only £900 and last three years, but there are no guarantees. 

Things like basic engine servicing, it's a lot cheaper to do it yourself, I paid about £48 for oil and oem oil filter, I ve sort of decided to leave the fuel filter for a year ( not recommended) Some engines use cheaper oils, some people buy cheaper filters. 

My annual servicing costs are about £300. 

Winter is much more expensive than summer, heating, coal, logs kindling, about £30 per week, for 25 to 30 weeks, temperature cosy warm, day and night. In addition you need  hot water and  electricity, running engine or a generator maybe ten hours per week, that's another £10 fuel. If you are hardy, or weather is very warm, or you are not at home all day, your total heating and lighting budget might be £600 per year. I'm assuming solar will charge batteries seven to nine months of the year

I use the Internet quite a lot, probably accounts for most of my electricity. 

If you do a lot of home cooking you might use four gas bottles per annum, £160, I've gone for easy meals, so I use only two bottles of gas per annum. 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by LadyG

[Paul Charlton]

I've done a bit of research on this and if you exclude mooring fees and assuming you own the boat outright then £1k a month is in the ball park.  That includes fuel, food, internet, licences, insurance, maintenance fund etc (assuming its a fairly modern boat in good condition to start with).

If you add in a marina mooring (depending on where abouts in the country that is) you can add roughly £3k a year (around the midlands) or much more around London.

 

I'd be interested in other peoples actual figures if they differ vastly from this!

[Alan de Enfield]

When this has beed discussed (many times) previously there is a general concensus that £5000 per annum (+ moorings) is not far off reality.

 

Some years it will be £2k, occasional years in could be £7k - £10k (repaint, new engine, gearbox, etcetc) 

 

It very much depends on your outlook :

You could keep the boat in tip-top condition repair / renew everything that is not 100%, service the engine at the proper intervals, have the boat professionally painted every 5-7 years etc, and have a boat increasing in value or

You can just do nothing, only repair what is absolutely necessary, let the boat go to rack and ruin and spend 'nothing' but let your asset depreciate to nothing as well.

 

Your food and clothing costs will be similar to living in bricks and mortar.

You electricity costs will be much higher on a boat due to the fact you are now the electricity generator. It has been estimated that a Kw of electricity that cost (say) 20p on land proably cost about £5 to generate on the boat using the engine.

 

Solar panels help enormously in the 6-8 months of 'Summer' but have an initial high cost of installation. They do nothing in Winter so you need to generate your own electricity with a generator or the main engine.

 

Mooring costs will vary hugely across the country from about £1500-£2000 for a Farmers field in the middle of nowhere in the 'North', to £15,000 for a serviced mooring in London. Typical 'Midlands' marina cost would be around £2500-£3000 per annum

[PD1964]

2 hours ago, Paul Charlton said:

I've done a bit of research on this and if you exclude mooring fees and assuming you own the boat outright then £1k a month is in the ball park.  That includes fuel, food, internet, licences, insurance, maintenance fund etc (assuming its a fairly modern boat in good condition to start with).

 

No where near £1K a month and you say that doesn’t include moorings. You must be using a lot of fuel and eating a lot of Take Aways.

Edited March 30, 2022 by PD1964

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Paul Charlton said:

I've done a bit of research on this and if you exclude mooring fees and assuming you own the boat outright then £1k a month is in the ball park.  That includes fuel, food, internet, licences, insurance, maintenance fund etc (assuming its a fairly modern boat in good condition to start with).

If you add in a marina mooring (depending on where abouts in the country that is) you can add roughly £3k a year (around the midlands) or much more around London.

 

I'd be interested in other peoples actual figures if they differ vastly from this!

I’d go along with that.

But you could run a car on that too

And that figure could include putting something aside each month.

If possible it’s a good idea to build up a lump of money for emergencies.

 

[PD1964]

17 minutes ago, Goliath said:

I’d go along with that.

But you could run a car on that too

And that figure could include putting something aside each month.

If possible it’s a good idea to build up a lump of money for emergencies.

 

So your saying it costs £1K a month plus moorings?

so:

12x £1000

moorings: £3000

Yearly total to live on a boat: £15,000

I don’t think so.

Some months obviously cheaper then others, like from now till Nov/Dec where using a lot less coal if any, some months more when insurance is due and BSS. Never spent anywhere near £15K a year, not even near half that even with Marina moorings.

Edited March 30, 2022 by PD1964

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Chagall said:

The view from the end of my marina mooring.

 

 

 

 

 

Ha...

 

We nearly chose to moor there. Its a nice spot.

[Slow and Steady]

It comes down to lifestyle in the end, if you like a cheap bottle of wine most nights and a takeaway once a week that's another £3k right there. Add a night in the pub once a week you could easily double that for a couple. I don't do any of that myself these days, but I don't think any of that is excessive or unreasonable behaviour. As I mentioned above my ex could spank £10k/year on CDs and gin.

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

1 hour ago, PD1964 said:

So your saying it costs £1K a month plus moorings?

so:

12x £1000

moorings: £3000

Yearly total to live on a boat: £15,000

I don’t think so.

Not quite.

But if someone aims for, or allows a £1000 a month then they’ll be more than quids in, especially with no moorings to pay.

 

On starvation life style, me and the boat can survive on maybe £400 a month. 

But personally I have little enjoyment living like that for any length of time.

I try not to aim for the very minimum I need to survive on, but for something that will give me comfort and some confidence that when shit goes wrong I’ve money to cover it. 

We’re all different.

Some make it an aim to live on as little as possible, I can’t do that.

 

 

I rarely eat take aways.