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Help please - refilled water tank after full winter empty, now no water to taps


Hilda

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Hi

Can anyone help please.

Mum and I are trying to sort her narrowboat out after shutting it down for winter...

we refilled the wAter tank at the front, released the front stopcock and the quarter turn stopcock near the pump. We've checked the water pump switch is on at the control panel near the engine and then switched the isolator  pump switch on near the pump. We opened the 2 cold taps (galley and bathroom), we can hear the pump working but no water comes out after several minutes of waiting. I can't find a leak anywhere.

 

coukd anyone please suggest what might be the issue and how to fix it as sadly our expert (Dad) is no longer with us.

thank you in advance.

Jayne and Hilda

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Hi there ...

The good news is that you can hear the pump running.

That means the power is connected, and the the pressure switch that detects you have opened a tap is functioning.

 

If you have a filter the water passes through before getting to the pump, it may be blocked there.

Try shutting off the stop cocks between the tank and pump.

Then find a spanner to disconnect the pipe where it enters the pump, when you turn the cocks back on if you don't see water then you a have block between the tank and the pipe to the pump.

If you can't clear it then with the cocks open try blowing hard down the pipe towards the tank.

 

Good luck.

  • Greenie 1
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Can you hear the pump running after the taps are turned off...

 

Hi Phil...

no it stops as soon as we turn the tap off.

thank you for replying 

Hi there ...

The good news is that you can hear the pump running.

That means the power is connected, and the the pressure switch that detects you have opened a tap is functioning.

 

If you have a filter the water passes through before getting to the pump, it may be blocked there.

Try shutting off the stop cocks between the tank and pump.

Then find a spanner to disconnect the pipe where it enters the pump, when you turn the cocks back on if you don't see water then you a have block between the tank and the pipe to the pump.

If you can't clear it then with the cocks open try blowing hard down the pipe towards the tank.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you....

 

Mum out the filter cap on so I will get down n check all is well with that and look for water as you suggest.

it's very kind of you to offer help..than you.

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Is there any water in the tank?

YES freshly filled to the top with steriliser. We were trying to empty it out ready for refill. Thank you for checking though!

 

Are u sure you have the stop cocks open, they may have been open and you turned them shut ?

 

I've looked up the direction to ensure the stop-cock is open... Anti-clockwise full and quarter respectively... and That will be the first thing I check upon our return tomorrow. Thank you for your suggestion.

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3 hours ago, Hilda said:

released the front stopcock

 

To open a stopcock you turn the handle anti-clockwise, looking down on it from above. 

 

To open a quarter-turn valve, the handle, lever or whatever must be in line with the pipe. If it is perpendicular to the pipe, it is by convention turned OFF. This is generally the case but very occasionally, I encounter an exception.

 

It sounds to me as though there is a valve closed. This can't be that hard to resolve as you can hear the pump running. The puzzling bit is that it stops when you turn the taps OFF. Do I have this right?

 

I can come and have a quick look and diagnose it if you wish, if you happen to be on the southern Oxford. 

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Another possibility since the tank was emptied is that the pump ran dry and isn’t self-priming - eg it’s trying to suck air. I solve this on our boat by taking off the hose supplying the pump and sucking until water reaches the end, then reconnect it. 
 

But… if it was this then I wouldn’t expect the pump to stop when you turn off the taps. 

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3 hours ago, Hilda said:

no it stops as soon as we turn the tap off.


Our caravan used to have switches in the taps that turned the pump on - I’ve never heard of this being used on a boat tho. Can you tell us what is written on the pump, or add a photo? 

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How are your batteries? Is there enouugh power for the pump to run at full whack?

Have a look at the pump itself. If you can't see any water coming through the pipes, take off the outflow pipe , give a tap a quick buzz and see if you get wet. If not, that's where the problem is, if you do, it's somewhere else.

As someone has said, I suspect the pump isn't priming - it's not pulling the first bit of water to the pump so it's trying to pump air. Keep it running for a bit on a single tap and it might get round to it. Or you may need a new pump...

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I don't understand why the tank was emptied in the first place? It might depend on the type and location of the water tank but most people don't empty water tanks when winterising their boats.

 

It could be that because it was completely emptied, debris and corrosion in the tank has blocked the take off spigot & pipe.

 

I'd start by checking the water pump strainer.

Edited by blackrose
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6 hours ago, MtB said:

 

To open a stopcock you turn the handle anti-clockwise, looking down on it from above. 

 

To open a quarter-turn valve, the handle, lever or whatever must be in line with the pipe. If it is perpendicular to the pipe, it is by convention turned OFF. This is generally the case but very occasionally, I encounter an exception.

 

It sounds to me as though there is a valve closed. This can't be that hard to resolve as you can hear the pump running. The puzzling bit is that it stops when you turn the taps OFF. Do I have this right?

 

I can come and have a quick look and diagnose it if you wish, if you happen to be on the southern Oxford. 

Thank you.... If so rem4mber (it was Saturday) The pump keeps going a few seconds only.

I think from the minimal knowledge I have its either we've got ourselves confused with the Stopcock being open or closed, it's got a blockage (unlikely as its a stainless steel tank which has been kept serviced etc) or, the pump is pulling air..

We are very grateful for your advice and offer... We are on the Leeds Liverpool, but thank you.

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1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

How are your batteries? Is there enouugh power for the pump to run at full whack?

Have a look at the pump itself. If you can't see any water coming through the pipes, take off the outflow pipe , give a tap a quick buzz and see if you get wet. If not, that's where the problem is, if you do, it's somewhere else.

As someone has said, I suspect the pump isn't priming - it's not pulling the first bit of water to the pump so it's trying to pump air. Keep it running for a bit on a single tap and it might get round to it. Or you may need a new pump...

Thank you very much for the advice. We will return to carry out the instructions you and others have advised next weekend ( mum lives a fair distance from her boat and obviously with no water she had to return home).

I tend to agree, given we have 13.4V on the batteries that it's the pump not priming.... A risk when emptying the tank (habit of Dads in winter).

Thank you again.

5 hours ago, Thames Bhaji said:


Our caravan used to have switches in the taps that turned the pump on - I’ve never heard of this being used on a boat tho. Can you tell us what is written on the pump, or add a photo? 

Hey.. Dad was an Engineer mechanic by trade and built the boat and he put in a lot of extra switches and places where things could be isolated just incase. We definitely have a pump switch it's clearly labelled. Thank you for responding. It is grratly appreciated.

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I don't understand why the tank was emptied in the first place? It might depend on the type and location of the water tank but most people don't empty water tanks when winterising their boats.

 

It could be that because it was completely emptied, debris and corrosion in the tank has blocked the take off spigot & pipe.

 

I'd start by checking the water pump strainer.

Thank you for your reply. Empying the tank was just a habit we picked up from Dad... Something to do with the risk of split pipes in frost which we get a lot of in Yorkshire...

I will definitely be checking for blockages everywhere, but understand that steel tanks don't corrode, so based on replies here, i'm thinking air blockage somewhere.

Most appreciated thank you.

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Is the pump above the level of the top of the water tank? 

 

One of my boats is plumbed like this. It's actually quite sensible as any leak in the Shurflo pump will cause air to get in rather than water to get out of the system. 

 

This means a leaking pump (and they do leak eventually) will never cause water to enter the boat. 

 

If yours is done like that then it could be a leaky pump. 

 

 

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Hi everyone that's been kind enough to reply with advice.

I will be going back to the boat next weekend to try out what you've all suggested including checking for air/ debris in the pipework or filter and seeing if air comes from the pump and taps. 

I will post pictures of i'm not successful in getting water through the taps and hopefully then you lovely people can tell me what's what...

It might be a new pump or it might be I don't know how to open a Stopcock (shame)... Mum.and I are extremely grateful for each and every reply.

Thank you

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If my tank runs out of water air gets in the system, when I refill the tank nothing comes out of the taps. The way I do it is not to blow into a tap but turn on just one tap and then suck the thing until water gets into the pump innards, pumps often will not suck air but woll suck water. There, said all that without any 'carry on boating' innuendo.

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Thank you for the giggle...

I will try this as i'm pretty sure, based on other comments it an air in the pipes issue... I will look a sight perched on the draining board won't I.. I'll shut the curtains!! 

Thank you again... It's great to get some support and advice.

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1 hour ago, blackrose said:

I don't understand why the tank was emptied in the first place? It might depend on the type and location of the water tank but most people don't empty water tanks when winterising their boats.

 

 

I don't know where you get the "most people don't empty water tanks when they winterise the boat"  We certainly do and then drain down all the pipes and empty the calorifier and I don't think we are alone. If you are leaving your boat over the winter, it makes sense and prevents you coming back to a burst pipe. Those living on their boats, of course have no need to do this.

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5 minutes ago, Bee said:

If my tank runs out of water air gets in the system, when I refill the tank nothing comes out of the taps. The way I do it is not to blow into a tap but turn on just one tap and then suck the thing until water gets into the pump innards, pumps often will not suck air but woll suck water. There, said all that without any 'carry on boating' innuendo.

 

We always did it that way when we had centrifugal water pumps on the hire fleet.

 

My suspicion is that the valves in the pump are dry/old/stiff/partially clogged so it can't suck air to prime itself BUT if that is the case then the pump should not stop when the tap is shut unless the taps have micro-switches in them.

 

Hilda, look at where the pipe goes up into a tap. If you can see a pair of wires also running up into the tap then you have micro-switches and if it is paired with a cheap caravan type pump it might be centrifugal, If so tap open and suck like hell stands a very good chance of getting it working. 

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