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Woodburners in Bedrooms


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Hi All

 

Just wondering if BSS guidance has changed in regard to having woodburners in bedrooms. Are they 'allowed'? I'm thinking of installing the mini pipsqueak in the bedroom of a new-build narrowboat, and am guessing that woodburners are okay to have, as boatman's cabins have them in and they also have bed/furniture in and around them?

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I have a standard solid fuel stove with a back boiler in the saloon, mid boat. The hot water pipe feeds the airing cupboard, the toilet radiator, and best of all, the bed head. If I wake in middle of night because temperature is falling I get up and put more ovals on. I would prefer a more reliable stove, eg Squirrel, but I would not bother with a stove in bedroom. 

You would need to install an extra fireplace, get up even more frequently to fuel it, and make sure no bedding could come in to contact. Obviously ventilation

required. 

Wood storage, then cleaning, far too much faff. 

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As usual with BSS questions, they are most easily answered by reading what the BSS people publish. The BSS does not consider bedrooms, or other areas where sleep takes place as being distinct from any other accommodation area, with the exception that a CO monitor should be fitted there, near where people are breathing while asleep, which you should have regardless of if there is a stove there, or not. Only bigger boats have distinct bed rooms any way. Many boats, especially smaller ones, have places where sleeping can take place, or the area be used for other things. Dinette Pullman things, or sofas, converted in to beds at night and so on. They might be used every night the boat is occupied, or could be for guests.

Other than that, just make sure a stove conforms with the usual stove requirements.

Jen

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On 27/03/2022 at 13:35, Machpoint005 said:

Don't forget the CO monitor!

 

 

If you need to buy a CO monitor, buy it through British Gas or UK based approved chandlery, not from a Fleabay seller, or any other source that does not check to see if it is a non functioning copy. 

 

Buy Carbon Monoxide Detector Alarm | British Gas  for your house, or a a BSS approved alarm from ASAP:

 

FireAngel CO-9X Carbon Monoxide Detector & Alarm (asap-supplies.com)

 

I always mark the month and year the alarm was purchased, as the sensor corrodes, so is only good for 10 years max. The CO monitor is in addition to a normal smoke detector, not instead of, as it does not always go off for a normal fire.

 

I would note that it's rare for a wood stove to cause a CO related fatality, BUT it sure is not if you use charcoal or coal for heating. Also exhaust gas leaks from the engine or generator can result in CO poisoning, and cheap diesel fuel heaters will eventually rust through internally, which then results in exhaust fumes in the hot air output. 

 

CO poisoning causes around 40 deaths and 200 hospitalizations a year in the UK alone, according to the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE).

 

Edited by TNLI
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3 minutes ago, TNLI said:

If you need to buy a CO monitor, buy it through British Gas, not from a Fleabay seller, or any other source that does not check to see if it is a non functioning copy. 

 

Buy Carbon Monoxide Detector Alarm | British Gas

 

I always mark the month and year the alarm was purchased, as the sensor corrodes, so is only good for 10 years max. The CO monitor is in addition to a normal smoke detector, not instead of, as it does not always go off for a normal fire.

 

I would note that it's rare for a wood stove to cause a CO related fatality, BUT it sure is not if you use charcoal or coal for heating. Also exhaust gas leaks from the engine or generator can result in CO poisoning, and cheap diesel fuel heaters will eventually rust through internally, which then results in exhaust fumes in the hot air output. 

 

Are you sure that this is a part 2 alarm acceptable to the BSS? I suspect as its is sold as domestic that it will be part 1 only and hence not for a canal boat.

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14 minutes ago, TNLI said:

If you need to buy a CO monitor, buy it through British Gas,

 

You do know that CO alarms for boats are to a different specification to 'domestic' (British Gas) alarms ?

 

Read the BSS - it is now a BSS requirement

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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It is always a good idea to ensure that the advice you are giving people - especially recommendations on life saving equipment - is correct, not what your mates aunty who works in the cafe told you.

 

bss-co-alarm-guide-2019-comp.pdf (boatsafetyscheme.org)

 

All of the listed alarms from the four manufacturers shown in this brochure comply with the relevant safety standard for CO alarms suitable for use on boats, BS EN 50291-2 and carry the BSI Kitemark.

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15 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Are you sure that this is a part 2 alarm acceptable to the BSS? I suspect as its is sold as domestic that it will be part 1 only and hence not for a canal boat.

 

No it is not - it clearly states Pt 1 on the alarm.

 

I get really annoyed with people giving incorrect advice.

 

 

 

Screenshot (1094).png

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I wonder if the BSS inspection folks test the approved CO alarms ?? The marine industry is just like the automotive one at present, as it is awash with far Eastern made copies of the real thing, and it's incredibly difficult to tell the difference. The biggest scam at present is LiPO batteries, as there are an amazing number of new companies selling far Eastern LiPO batteries that at best do not perform anything as well as they should, or turn out to be cheaper Li bomb versions, (Old style Lithium batteries explode if seriously overheated). I wonder if the BSS inspectors are checking for illegal copies being imported and sold as BSS approved on Fleabay or Amazinzone.

 

Can't understand the live monitors who post before I've finished typing or editing. 

Edited by TNLI
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Its not something I'd do, some of these small stoves are hard to turn down, the doors etc. are often a poor fit and leak so they get too much air and get hot, then they only take a tiny amount of coal so they don't stay in. A bigger stove that takes a couple of shovels full of coal, stys in all night with some ash on the coal and runs a rad or two along the boat is a better plan. Others will disagree.

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1 hour ago, TNLI said:

Can't understand the live monitors who post before I've finished typing or editing. 

 

You have the audacity to moan about people pointing out your are posting totally wrong information - you seem to forget that your original (pre edit after having your errors pointed out) post is still available.

 

An apology from you would be more acceptable.

 

You should really just concentrate on posting what you know about - your lack of knowledge of the inland waterways is causing you to make faulty & 'expensive' recommendations.

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1 hour ago, TNLI said:

 

 

Can't understand the live monitors who post before I've finished typing or editing. 

How are we supposed to know that you are editing or trying to cover up your mistakes?

Can I suggest that you post about something  (if anything) that you know about instead of posting erroneous incorrect waffle? You are embarrassing and misleading.

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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In your rush to correct your errors you forgot to remove this link which is for non-boat approved alarms.

Try reading what ASAP say:

To have protection from the risk of outside sources of CO and to comply with the BSS Requirements, any boat that has accommodation space will need to have at least one CO alarm, i.e. a cabin or other space surrounded by permanent boat structure and if that space is used for sleeping, cooking, eating, washing or steering.

 

Certified to BS EN50291-1:2010+A1:2012 & BS EN50291-2:2010

 

That is OK for normal boats, but I don't know what the latest BSS Regs are for canal boats, as that alarm is for the more corrosive salt air environment. If that is no good for a canal boat, then I will ask ASAP to post an additional warning that it does not comply with the canal boat BSS regulations. 

 

Does the second part of the full description include part 2, as the first half is part 1, not sure what the second half designates ??

Edited by TNLI
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If you need to buy a CO monitor, buy it through British Gas or UK based approved chandlery, not from a Fleabay seller, or any other source that

 

Personally I'd avoid anything 'approved' by or sponsored by  British Gas, other reputable suppliers are available. 

 

 

I always mark the month and year the alarm was purchased, as the sensor corrodes, so is only good for 10 years max. The CO monitor is in addition to a normal smoke detector, not instead of, as it does not always go off for a normal fire.

 

More boll8x I'm afraid as any decent  alarm will either have a battery that expires when the sensor is end of life or have a built in  end of life warning.  

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4 hours ago, jonathanA said:

If you need to buy a CO monitor, buy it through British Gas or UK based approved chandlery, not from a Fleabay seller, or any other source that

 

Personally I'd avoid anything 'approved' by or sponsored by  British Gas, other reputable suppliers are available. 

 

 

I always mark the month and year the alarm was purchased, as the sensor corrodes, so is only good for 10 years max. The CO monitor is in addition to a normal smoke detector, not instead of, as it does not always go off for a normal fire.

 

More boll8x I'm afraid as any decent  alarm will either have a battery that expires when the sensor is end of life or have a built in  end of life warning.  

 

That figure of 10 years has nothing to do with the battery, as there is a warning for low voltage, It is the life of the unit, after it expires you are supposed to replace the unit. There is no end of life warning, as it would be impossible to use a clock or counter due to flat battery issues. If the alarm keeps going off, the battery goes flat fairly quickly, which is why alarms approved for commercial use have to be wired to the mains with the internal battery as a back up.

  

If you buy safety gear it's a real good idea to check if the company you buy from actually checks if the product is a copy. Very few suppliers do that until after they get a complaint. Also the alarms BG supply were made for them, they are not just ordered from a far Eastern web site that deals with bulk orders. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The actual specification for the alarm you linked to I suggest you stop digging.

 

Note the "Approvals"

 

1955642275_Screenshot(1096).png.bc6eb0ceb8e1b7c1a6bc730b9f585bf0.png

 

 

Why have you removed the second approval, as I posted it as a question about what the second part signifies, so here it is again:

Certified to BS EN50291-1:2010+A1:2012 & BS EN50291-2:2010 

It's the -2:2010 that might signify part 2

 

As far as I can see it does have the approval for part 2, but for some reason only the first part is marked on the unit. 

 

Edited by TNLI
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5 hours ago, Bee said:

Its not something I'd do, some of these small stoves are hard to turn down, the doors etc. are often a poor fit and leak so they get too much air and get hot, then they only take a tiny amount of coal so they don't stay in. A bigger stove that takes a couple of shovels full of coal, stys in all night with some ash on the coal and runs a rad or two along the boat is a better plan. Others will disagree.

I did not know anyone on a canal boat used coal for heating. I've only seen them using wood and gas. I was talking to a couple only a few days ago who were lucky to survive CO poisoning which resulted from some fault caused by the builders working around the chimney and stove the previous day. If a wood stove has a restricted air flow or blocked chimney the smoke is an irritant, so people normally wake up. Alas smoke free coal or anthracite fumes do not contain similar particles and gases, which is why any coal stove should be in a separate area with good ventilation. Surprised that such stoves are allowed by the BSS inspectors, or do they allow any type of heater ??  

 

I'm still doing some research into which type of heater to fit, as there seem to be some new stainless heaters that run on diesel and are made for Volvo and Merc trucks. I spoken to some users but can't figure out which units are involved. Might finish up using a gen set for direct heating and water proof heat pads for direct local heating. Also looking at heaters like the Origo heat pal that can also be used for cooking.

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4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

In your rush to correct your errors you forgot to remove this link which is for non-boat approved alarms.

 

No I did not remove anything at all. Perhaps you should try and calm down and just stick to factual comments rather than all the usual point scoring and negativity that puts anyone that wants to ask a question right off. That's why this forum has so few posters.

 

Key Features

7 year sealed for life battery

Easy to install

Portable so can be taken on holiday or installed within the home

Advanced electro-chemical sensor designed to accurately measure low levels of CO

7 year warranty

Certified to BS EN50291-1:2010+A1:2012 & BS EN50291-2:2010

 

BUT, that differs from the specifications page, so it appears that ASAP have not listed this alarm correctly. Good to see it's only a 7 year one with a sealed battery. 

Edited by TNLI
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4 hours ago, TNLI said:

Also looking at heaters like the Origo heat pal that can also be used for cooking.


I googled this as I’d never heard of it and was intrigued. If it’s the thing I found (carbon fuel burning device but with combustion products left inside rather than outside) I’d make very, very sure your CO monitor works! 
 

ps I’d be a lot more worried about having any of these on a boat than a correctly flued coal stove.

Edited by Thames Bhaji
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