Jump to content

Illegal to use red diesel for boat propulsion


Alan de Enfield

Featured Posts

2 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

I think this a bit of urban mythology....seems completely unworkable to me ... I wouldn't expect to change or steam clean my 30 year old tractors fuel tank if I needed to use for non agricultural purposes and so put white in the tank.  ( I do have a 30 year old road legal tractor just to be clear)

Red diesel reality check:
Accepted use:
“A farmer transporting his livestock from the farm to the mart for sale at auction.”
Non accepted use:
“Farmers using red diesel for charity tractor runs.

 

 

It sure seems unworkable. Imagine the farmer putting 5 litres of white into the tractor tank half full of red diesel in order to do some "charity tractor runs". Government busybody turns up to dip the tank. Now what? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have just had a bloke on a hire boat tell me that as well. He also said farmers couldn't drive their tractors on the road with red

Nothing new there 

Permitted only to travel between farm and fields locally

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, jonathanA said:

When hiring machinery, particularly if the machinery is likely to be used on construction sites too, farmers should check if there is an obligation from the hire company to use white diesel instead of red. 

My neighbour runs a large hire co down here in the SW, discussing this last time we were out his co policy is that all their kit must only be used with white, any customer using red will be billed  for cleaning and disposal of the fuel.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Nothing new there 

Permitted only to travel between farm and fields locally

Maybe it doesn't affect Englandshire but farmers are permitted to use red diesel for clearing roads using snow ploughs etc on their tractors UNLESS they are contracted to do it by the local council in which case it is white only. This will have a big impact in a lot of rural areas in Scotland. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And here's a whole new dimension to the debate courtesy of a large marine supplier of HVO on the Thames and Medway:

 

"Green BioFuels Ltd are supplying us with rebated, undyed product and their contact at HMRC has confirmed that their approach is correct.  The treatment of HVO from a duty perspective is the same as the treatment of fossil gas oil (red diesel) so if a vessel is entitled to use rebated fossil gas oil, it can use rebated HVO.  We are also being supplied with undyed fossil gas oil into our bunker barge for delivery to ships, again the rebate is generated through the BDN*, so whether or not it’s dyed seems not to matter anymore.

 

"Personally, I think this drive not to dye gas oil will end in tears, because some people are bound to cheat and buy rebated, undyed product for boats but then use it in cars and trucks.  However, there is no longer any requirement to dye rebated product, so presumably HMRC are happy to take the risk that people might cheat because HMRC’s ability to catch such people out is now seriously diminished".

 

(*BDN: https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/marine/technicalresource/marine-resources/bunker-delivery-notes

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Up-Side-Down said:

And here's a whole new dimension to the debate courtesy of a large marine supplier of HVO on the Thames and Medway:

 

"Green BioFuels Ltd are supplying us with rebated, undyed product and their contact at HMRC has confirmed that their approach is correct.  The treatment of HVO from a duty perspective is the same as the treatment of fossil gas oil (red diesel) so if a vessel is entitled to use rebated fossil gas oil, it can use rebated HVO.  We are also being supplied with undyed fossil gas oil into our bunker barge for delivery to ships, again the rebate is generated through the BDN*, so whether or not it’s dyed seems not to matter anymore.

 

"Personally, I think this drive not to dye gas oil will end in tears, because some people are bound to cheat and buy rebated, undyed product for boats but then use it in cars and trucks.  However, there is no longer any requirement to dye rebated product, so presumably HMRC are happy to take the risk that people might cheat because HMRC’s ability to catch such people out is now seriously diminished".

 

(*BDN: https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/marine/technicalresource/marine-resources/bunker-delivery-notes

I can't find any evidence to support ''there is no longer a requirement to dye rebated product'', none of the bulk suppliers mention this and still offer red diesel and red HVO for sale as well as white diesel and white HVO. 

 

Keith

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Steilsteven said:

I can't find any evidence to support ''there is no longer a requirement to dye rebated product'', none of the bulk suppliers mention this and still offer red diesel and red HVO for sale as well as white diesel and white HVO. 

 

Keith

Red HVO is still available through Crown Oil and a (very) few of its distributors but that doesn't mean to say that GBF Ltd are wrong. 30% owned by BP, I rather suspect they know the right people at HMRC to talk to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Steilsteven said:

I can't find any evidence to support ''there is no longer a requirement to dye rebated product'', none of the bulk suppliers mention this and still offer red diesel and red HVO for sale as well as white diesel and white HVO. 

 

Keith

 

 

As I understand it there is a chemical marker added to rebated fuel.

 

The presence of the chemical marker makes red dyeing of the fuel as a visual marker no longer necessary.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

As I understand it there is a chemical marker added to rebated fuel.

 

The presence of the chemical marker makes red dyeing of the fuel as a visual marker no longer necessary.

But then if both types of fuel become identical in appearance, it will open up the defence,"I didn't know", wont it?:unsure:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

But then if both types of fuel become identical in appearance, it will open up the defence,"I didn't know", wont it?:unsure:

 

7 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

But then if both types of fuel become identical in appearance, it will open up the defence,"I didn't know", wont it?:unsure:

Or I asked for and paid for white and what he put in looked like white.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

But then if both types of fuel become identical in appearance, it will open up the defence,"I didn't know", wont it?:unsure:

 

Yep. 

 

It also opens up the defence of "I only broke the law in a limited and specific way". Now lemme think, who was it did that recently....?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Yep. 

 

It also opens up the defence of "I only broke the law in a limited and specific way". Now lemme think, who was it did that recently....?

But he didn't know it was a party. Are, I see what you mean

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 06/05/2022 at 18:46, MtB said:

 

 

More pertinently, once a drop of red diesel has been used in the tractor it can never be used again on the road whatever fuel was put in it last, as the marker chemical persists (apparently).

That is what I understand too, went to a presentation at HMRCs Compass House during Londons “open house” weekends 4 years ago and the HMRC inspector had all the testing equipment and van showing how the dipping and testing all worked. He was very clear on this, and demonstrated it. Diesel in the Republic of Ireland contains different chemicals but the same principle applied, and they usually tested for both. Both contain chemicals that persist  for absolutely ages, well past the colour disappearance. He wasn’t able to state for how long but he muttered about it being sometimes years. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is a bit strange because if I remember correctly (unlikely at my age) during the last Fuel shortage it was suggested by HMRC that it would be OK to use red if necessary provided you paid them the duty on it. Now it is possible that I am all to cock with that.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.