100s of revolting boaters

[BWM]

21 minutes ago, Goliath said:

That’s horrible, shitty antisocial behaviour.
 

But there’ll be plenty of ‘non boaters’ leading a very quiet life not bothering anyone and getting on the best they can.

Matters not if they have little interest in the canals and have no idea who James Brindley was.  

A mate of mine spent a couple of years in London.

He found accommodation for free, at the time there were a few companies who would rather have people living in the buildings rather than them being empty and vandalised or having illegal squatters.

It is difficult to address these issues without generalising and there are many perfectly reasonable people amongst the madness but it's the bad ones that will inevitably affect our enjoyment of the lifestyle with previously unnecessary restrictions and charges/fines being introduced. From my experience i believe the balance is tipping towards the bad/unreasonable/thoughtless growing in numbers. 

[magnetman]

This is what is happening. 

 

It's bad news. 

[BWM]

I saw this on the pound between Black Jacks and Widewater a couple of years ago, apparently rusted through i believe the pound was flooded, boat placed on blocks and bingo! a new home in the (someone else's) woodland. 

 Not really an ambassador for our collective image?

 

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

17 minutes ago, BWM said:

It is difficult to address these issues without generalising and there are many perfectly reasonable people amongst the madness but it's the bad ones that will inevitably affect our enjoyment of the lifestyle with previously unnecessary restrictions and charges/fines being introduced. From my experience i believe the balance is tipping towards the bad/unreasonable/thoughtless growing in numbers. 

It’s always the few that spoilt ‘it’ for the rest.

 

But getting back to the point of why our hipster is demonstrating;

 

CRT refusing  to consider complaints

CRT removing mooring space

CRT introducing Safety Zones

 

then I say well done hipster, 

[magnetman]

That has been there for at least ten years. 

 

interesting area down there. I think the land owner might actually be giving permission for things like that. 

 

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, magnetman said:

Of course housing is more important in the greater scheme of things so perhaps canals should be drained and the land used for residential units. 

 

You could get loads of quite nice blocks of flats. Eco homes. Cycle route just outside the door. 

 

What's not to like. 

Rothens have already solved this problem- you can get four times the amount of boats moored in the same space this way and no one will moan if you go past at more than tickover 😃

 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, BWM said:

It is difficult to address these issues without generalising and there are many perfectly reasonable people amongst the madness but it's the bad ones that will inevitably affect our enjoyment of the lifestyle with previously unnecessary restrictions and charges/fines being introduced. From my experience i believe the balance is tipping towards the bad/unreasonable/thoughtless growing in numbers. 

I think the proportion is about the same as it always was, but there are a lot more boaters about, so more antisocial ones too. There is also more bureaucracy that loves making more rules to justify its existence.

However, repair costs are about to go through the roof, timber for locks is apparently unavailable and there are skilled staff shortages - it's likely the whole system is about to go belly up, so I reckon to just enjoy it while most of it still works.

[Peanut]

I don't have the figures for 2020, but in 2016 only 6,8%of CRT members voted for council, that was 1,860 out of 27,280 eligible to vote.

 

It seems to me that the London Boaters could easily remove the current Council at the next election, and vary the rules to accommodate their needs.

 

At least they could do their best to get their voice heard in Council and influence decisions.

 

I think it's wrong to assume that all those living aboard are woefully bad, and to judge all by the behaviour of a few.

[David Mack]

8 hours ago, Arthur Marshall said:

How long has this tradition of living on a boat and working on land been going on? Must be a century at least, to be such an important tradition...

CCing, as an option has only existed since 1995, so hardly a tradition.

5 hours ago, MtB said:

 I can imagine local authorities finding ways of stopping the use of solid fuel stoves, and possibly using the "boats are unfit for human habitation" argument not having mains drainage.

If a local authority forces someone out of their home on grounds it is unfit, that person becomes legally homeless and the LA is (in theory) obliged to house them. The housing lists are long enough already, so LAs aren't going to go down that route unless the boater is particularly vulnerable.

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, magnetman said:

River Wey is an interesting one as you can't get a full year license without having a mooring on that particular waterway. 

I think that's true on every non CRT waterway. Continuous Cruising is an option available only on CRT waters. On other Navigation Authorities' waters boats without a permanent mooring can only get a short term visitor licence.

[Machpoint005]

By my observation a lot of residential boats in the NW are "under the radar", but they live in marinas. Provided the boats go out and cruise every so often. nobody notices and nobody cares. 

 

Long may it so continue.

 

As Mrsmelly said earlier ... who wants to go near that London on a boat? There are lots of trains that will get you out of the city much more quickly!

 

 

 

2 hours ago, BWM said:

From my experience i believe the balance is tipping towards the bad/unreasonable/thoughtless growing in numbers. 

 

That is true of life generally. Blame social meejah.

 

 

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, Goliath said:

It’s always the few that spoilt ‘it’ for the rest.

 

But getting back to the point of why our hipster is demonstrating;

 

CRT refusing  to consider complaints

CRT removing mooring space

CRT introducing Safety Zones

 

then I say well done hipster, 

I think the protest would have been more effective if they hadn't mixed the issue of the CRT removing hundreds of mooring spaces from a place already desperately short in on dubious "safety" grounds (I mean, canals would be safer with no boats on them, but I'm not sure this is logic CRT should be following...) which makes all boaters' life more difficult with the completely separate issue of CRT actually carrying out enforcement action against a handful of the worst offenders for overstaying which actually makes things better for boaters who tend to follow the rules.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

We’ll have to wait and see if the demonstration has had any effect at all. I know it won’t be the last one. 
 

Yes, the safety grounds I understand are to allow other users such as paddle boarders and such like to navigate safely without restriction. Ffs. 
 

I don’t see enforcement as a separate issue. It’s part of the parcel. Removing moorings and charging for moorings will simply make it more difficult to follow the 14 day rule and lead to further enforcement and make life increasingly more difficult for all who live in or visit London. 
 

I don’t know what the correct answers are but I see a wrong one. 
 

 

[Scholar Gypsy]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

I think that's true on every non CRT waterway. Continuous Cruising is an option available only on CRT waters. On other Navigation Authorities' waters boats without a permanent mooring can only get a short term visitor licence.

 

There's no such requirement on EA waterways.  Most moorings are 48 hours. of course, which makes the equivalent of CC rather harder.

[George and Dragon]

4 hours ago, Thomas C King said:

For culture, London is nothing special.

I suspect the reason many people in cultural industries move to London is because that's where you have to be to 'make it'. I don't suppose the Beatles spent a lot of time in Liverpool.

[Tonka]

It doesnt matter how long you can stay on the moorings. It is the enforcement bit that moves them on.

Should have learnt that from Kingston upon Thames back in the 1980's people used to moor up and live on there boats. No one enforced it and the boats were allowed to kkep their moring and the visitor moorings were put a quarter of a mile upstram from the town.

[magnetman]

On the Thames the vast majority of land by the River is privately owned or property of local authorities / public bodies so it's up to the land owner to manage the moorings. As long as boats are registered and not dangerous the Environment Agency don't do anything.

 

They may technically have powers but they don't get used. 

 

There are some EA owned sites and unregistered areas which the EA claims to own. 

 

 

In the last few years Richmond council applied for and were allowed a new byelaw criminalising mooring to their land for more than one hour. This could happen in other areas. In fact Hounslow did the same thing for the Brent and the tidal Thames in their borough. 

 

Another approach is PSPO.

 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2022 by magnetman

[magnetman]

16 minutes ago, Tonka said:

It doesnt matter how long you can stay on the moorings. It is the enforcement bit that moves them on.

Should have learnt that from Kingston upon Thames back in the 1980's people used to moor up and live on there boats. No one enforced it and the boats were allowed to kkep their moring and the visitor moorings were put a quarter of a mile upstram from the town.

The bit immediately above the bridge is a different land owner. The Barge Walk between there and Hampton Court is royal parks owned but that bit where the boats are is a wharf and there is a small a railway. I think it was originally oart of Gridley Miskins which also had the site just below the bridge which is now housing with a basin. 

 

If it was then the people mooring there may have bought the land rather than just squatted it. I know someone there from years ago I will ask him next time am down there as it's an interesting situation.

 

 

 

 

 

[David Mack]

43 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

There's no such requirement on EA waterways.  Most moorings are 48 hours. of course, which makes the equivalent of CC rather harder.

Has that changed then? The annual licence form always used to ask for your permanent mooring (or place where the boat is normally kept if trailable). But I see it now includes an option for no permanent place.

[Tonka]

21 minutes ago, magnetman said:

The bit immediately above the bridge is a different land owner. The Barge Walk between there and Hampton Court is royal parks owned but that bit where the boats are is a wharf and there is a small a railway. I think it was originally oart of Gridley Miskins which also had the site just below the bridge which is now housing with a basin. 

 

If it was then the people mooring there may have bought the land rather than just squatted it. I know someone there from years ago I will ask him next time am down there as it's an interesting situation.

 

 

 

 

 

Just googled Gridley Miskin and you are right, there is a basin there now. We used to moor there when it was Parman Marine and Gridley Miskin was still there . Moved pre 1984 upstream. I was referring to the boats that are on the Surrey side behind the old cinema etc. They built the visitor mooring on the barge walk part. We used to ask the boats moored in the car park upstram of the road bridge on the Middx side if we could moor alongside to pop to the shops. They always used to be ok but i am talking pre 1973

[Laurie Booth]

On 27/03/2022 at 09:20, Bee said:

Inevitable tensions. Not much in the way of solutions either. If I had to work and/or live in London (Or Bath or Bristol like I used to many years ago) I have a perfectly good although slightly small boat that I would simply move there and live on it. However I would also expect CRT to be troublesome just like BWB could be - it has always been the same, if you live on board it is usually totally insecure. Thing is that as a lorry driver in Bath and Bristol I could afford to rent a flat or a share in one on ordinary wages and still have a reasonable standard of living. Might not be the case now and as for London...........

A two bed flat in Bath is £750 per month, so quite affordable for two sharing.

 

[Ronaldo47]

My understanding is that in the canals' heyday, wages were high enough for a family rent a house on land, and that the "tradition" of families living aboard  only came about when competition from the railways depressed wages. I can't think that the canal companies would have tolerated large-scale static residential mooring as it would have slowed down commercial traffic, especially when horse power was the norm.

 

When we first started taking canal holidays in the 1970's, there was seldom need to slow down past moored boats. Nowadays the frequent need to slow down past the stretches of  what seem to be permanent moorers, even away from large conurbations, has put my wife off the idea of taking any more canal holidays.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Ronaldo47

[doratheexplorer]

On 27/03/2022 at 11:58, Thomas C King said:

Aren't most of us here continuous cruisers? I'm surprised to see advocating banning boat dwelling (unless I've misunderstood). To be fair, I think the wider boating community should push back a bit on the London boaters to be reasonable and not ruin it for everyone. Or campaign for better social housing.

Continuous cruisers are a tiny minority on here.  In fact I'd wager there are many more members without a boat at all than there are continuous cruisers.  Technically I'm not a continuous cruiser, as I have a mooring.  I just don't use it much.

[doratheexplorer]

23 hours ago, Goliath said:

What’s it like in Paddington basin now? Rammed I guess.

They’d not long done it up when I went and I was possibly the only boat in there.

Was great to be right in the centre and have a ‘free’ week or so in the capital. 

Even better was being able to leave and be we’ll away within a day.

Don't think I stopped til I got to Cowley. 

Id like to got back though, only ever having been as far as Camden lock I’ve not explored much of the London canals.  

There’s some lovely places. Can’t remember without looking at my diaries.

Cosgrove, Tring summit, Cow Roast (great name) stand out as a few nice places to visit. But plenty more without having to go too far. 

I spent a week in Paddington Basin last year, but I paid in advance for the mooring.  It was height of the season and the paid for pontoons were never full.  The local boaters seemed to know this as pretty much every evening, narrowboats would moor up on the widebeam moorings and be off in the morning.  Elsewhere, the whole place was packed full of boats and the impression I got from Kensal Green to Little Venice was of a linear slum.  I suspect that slum continues most of the way to Limehouse.  That's the story for the Guardian to be telling, a modern day slum, crossing the width of London, hidden in plain sight.  The solution is very complex, just as the causes are, but make no mistake, CRT's recent moves are just the beginning.  The ultimate outcomes may well affect all boaters.

[magnetman]

Exactly. 

 

I've been saying this for ages. It's a slum housing problem. 

 

Slums get cleared. 

 

It's called "slum clearance". 

 

Interesting to see how this one goes but yes it will have an impact on most people who have boats regardless of how they use them. 

 

And it won't be a regional thing. 

 

London is London. Some people even say those who run the country have a big house by the Thames in Westminster. Not sure if this is true but it might be !

Edited March 28, 2022 by magnetman