We have just bought a narrow boat. Advice required please.

[nbfiresprite]

2 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Thanks LadyG, an anchor that be dismantled and stowed when off the rivers sounds ideal for my situation. 

 

Can I just check- if an given event is usually unusual, does that still mean it is unusual?

 

As regards my going on a river with a reputation...

Well I must be honest, my reputation is appalling- on both river and canal.

If CWDF were a carry on film, I might be Leslie Phillips.

 

 

Don't you mean the 'Navy lark'?

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Personally ? Three times.

 

In two cases the use of an anchor would have saved the boat going over the weir, in the other case the correct, timely use of an anchor save the boat from going over the weir and allowed me to come alongside, take a line and tow him back to Newark.

 

The problem is that NBers base their requirements on a 'muddy ditch', when they get onto moving water it is a whole new ball game.

 

Buy suitable equipment, practice its use, keep it ready for immediate deployment.

That makes you unlucky

 

or lucky you had anchor

 

and well done for having a reserve anchor 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Goliath

[Alan de Enfield]

16 minutes ago, Goliath said:

That makes you unlucky

 

or lucky you had anchor

 

and well done for having a reserve anchor 

 

Sorry - a misunderstanding.

 

I have witnessed 2 boats that went over a weir because an anchor was not deployed, and I assisted one who deployed his anchor about 50 yards from the Dolphins (it seemed much closer) it held him until I could get a line across and take him under tow.

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Alan de Enfield]

14 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

ESPECIALLY as to read some posters on here, one would think narrowboats on rivers spend 100% of their time within feet of going over a weir, saved only by the fact their engines are still running. 

 

 

Indeed they are as the weirs are alongside the locks, as you are heading into the lock cut, you are easily carried by the flow past the lock wall and are only yards away from the weir.

 

 

The upstream lock entry is level with the orange Dolphins.

 

Because of the shape of NBs if they hit the Dolphins they turn broadside and roll under the Dolphins and over the weir.

[Col_T]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

Don't you mean the 'Navy lark'?

 

He probably did, as Leslie Phillips was in the radio show.

[Ianws]

I say, he was in a carry on as well. 

[Tony1]

1 hour ago, nbfiresprite said:

Don't you mean the 'Navy lark'?

 

I'm afraid I'm no expert on 60s and 70s British comedy, but if memory serves, this was the sort of behaviour I was thinking of:

 

 

[Ronaldo47]

In The Navy Lark his frequent catchphrase was something like  "Left hand down a bit" when ordering change of course.

 

The only time I have used an anchor was 40-odd years ago when one of the crew had forgotten to collect one  of the mooring pins at our previous stop. We had no spare  and at our next stop there was no Armco to thread a rope through. The anchor worked  well on the very muddy towpath! 

[nbfiresprite]

27 minutes ago, Ronaldo47 said:

In The Navy Lark his frequent catchphrase was something like  "Left hand down a bit" when ordering change of course.

 

 

Quickly followed by  CPO Pertwee's "Ev'rybody down!" as the Troutbridge hits something. Tim West would have been good as old ex sailor on the shoreside saying "it's contact sport you know"

 

https://youtu.be/TVzmVLUbSos

Edited March 26, 2022 by nbfiresprite

[David J Smith]

Oh dear. Have I really made such a big mistake in buying the Danforth?? I only went there, because our previous 57 ft narrow boat had one. We never had to use it. So I wasn't aware of its possible poor performance.  I've have seen Danforth anchors stored on the roofs of narrow boats. I just thought they were the "Way to go". As I mentioned we are on the Great river Ouse in Cambridgeshire. And will be heading to the grand union canal.  Will someone come on here and say that the Danforth worked for them in an emergency. As I've lost confidence in my"Stupid " decision. I dare not tell the wife. Coz she has concerns as to where we store the darn thing.

Thanks for all your help and guidance guys

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by David john Smith

[LadyG]

36 minutes ago, David john Smith said:

Oh dear. Have I really made such a big mistake in buying the Danforth?? I only went there, because our previous 57 ft narrow boat had one. We never had to use it. So I wasn't aware of its possible poor performance.  I've have seen Danforth anchors stored on the roofs of narrow boats. I just thought they were the "Way to go". As I mentioned we are on the Great river Ouse in Cambridgeshire. And will be heading to the grand union canal.  Will someone come on here and say that the Danforth worked for them in an emergency. As I've lost confidence in my"Stupid " decision. I dare not tell the wife. Coz she has concerns as to where we store the darn thing.

Thanks for all your help and guidance guys

 

Please don't beat yourself up, go to jimmygreenmarine, get some short heavy chain and rope, see my Mantus post. 

I don't know the characteristics of the river, but there is bound to be some info, maybe charts and a pilot book. It is likely local knowledge  a bit more experience in boat handling on a river, eg practice mooring up and leaving a mooring in a flow of river, plus confidence in the engine is going to be of greater value than the design of the anchor. 

 

You can test the holding power of your anchor and chain by deploying it in an area where you are not likely to snag it on underwater obstructions. 

You can retrieve the anchor by taking the boat up over the top of the anchor, pulling the rope and the chain in to the boat in a controlled manner. You really need two people, one at helm, one at the bow. 

There are loads of articles, magazines, books etc on how to handle an anchor. 

I think your Danforth has a small fitting at the base which is to attach a trip line. 

Just be careful, keep trip line away from the prop, ie keep it in the well deck. 

I would use a trip line only when practicing, in other circumstances, on a river I would not use it.

Edited March 26, 2022 by LadyG

[haggis]

Reading this thread with interest. I have found that weirs on rivers are well signposted (big arrows pointing to the lock) and you have plenty of time to make sure you are closer to the "safe" bank and away from the weir stream. The only exception I can remember is on the Nene where you come round a bend and in about a boats length there is a lock and weir side by side.  There was a heavy flow on and that was tricky 🙂 

Gamebird, our little Sea Otter, has a small aluminium anchor which dismantles for storing in small places. Once when Iain was boating on the tidal river Forth up to Stirling with a couple of other boats  they all deployed their anchors in the middle of the river (nowhere to moor) and when they got up in the morning gamebirds anchor was the only one still holding. In fact all three boats had swung round and were being held by gamebirds wee anchor. The other boats were a widebeam and a broads cruiser, both much bigger and heavier than gamebird. I can't remember the name of the anchor but if Iain sees this later he will no doubt tell you. 

In my mind, there is seldom need to use an anchor from a narrow boat but when you do it is more likely to be because of a breakdown rather than hurtling towards a weir. It is therefore not essential that it bites immediately and if you drift till the anchor finds a suitable spot, it is no problem. 

We  used an anchor once on the river Trent  because of an engine problem and there was no rush about it. The biggest job was getting the thing back on board as it was blooming heavy! 

 

 

[MtB]

24 minutes ago, haggis said:

We  used an anchor once on the river Trent  because of an engine problem and there was no rush about it. The biggest job was getting the thing back on board as it was blooming heavy! 

 

Ah now this reminds me of another subtle anchor risk highlighted by a friend of mine on here long ago. As a newbie liveaboard keen to 'do it right' he took the advice on here, scrimped and saved, bought a whopping great anchor plenty big enough (as advised in a long old anchor thread much the same as this), and a long heavy anchor chain, right sort of warp, correct type and length of rope, the lot. Cost him a fortune. 

 

Anyway, some while later his engine failed on the Trent and although the boat was not lost, the cost of all that gear made him so reluctant to chuck it all over the side that he never did, despite this being exactly the situation he bought it for. He found some other way of getting out of the situation. Can't remember what it was.... 

[nbfiresprite]

59 minutes ago, haggis said:

Reading this thread with interest. I have found that weirs on rivers are well signposted (big arrows pointing to the lock) and you have plenty of time to make sure you are closer to the "safe" bank and away from the weir stream. The only exception I can remember is on the Nene where you come round a bend and in about a boats length there is a lock and weir side by side.  There was a heavy flow on and that was tricky 🙂 

 

 

That will be Ditchford lock, the deepest on the Nene.

[David Mack]

3 hours ago, David john Smith said:

As I mentioned we are on the Great river Ouse in Cambridgeshire. And will be heading to the grand union canal. 

Is this a one off trip from the Great Ouse to the Grand Union, or do you expect to regularly navigate rivers? If the latter it may be worth investing in a better anchor, but if you are going to stay on the canals, then it may be better just to take extra care on your first trip.

[haggis]

7 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

That will be Ditchford lock, the deepest on the Nene.

Possibly. It was the scariest time I have had in over 30 years boating.  The river was high and we came round the corner slowing down for the lock and as Iain held in to let me off at the bows the water caught the back of the boat and swung it out. We ended up with the bows in the corner between the towpath and the lock gate and the stern over the weir. The boat was held by the bit between the lock and weir. I got several ropes, tied them together and attached them to a wooden mooring post and when I pulled, all that happened was the post came out of the ground. There was nothing else to attach a rope too. My efforts to pull the boat off were to no avail. Eventually, Iain gunned the engine and managed to get the stern away from the weir and towards the tow path side. We came down the lock backwards and just managed to turn below the lock (the boat was 58 feet) . 

On looking at it afterwards, that one wooden post was all there was to hold a boat out of the weir stream while you prepared the lock and although that would be fine for a smaller GRP it was pretty useless for a narrow boat as it left the stern sticking out at the bend

[LadyG]

12 hours ago, nbfiresprite said:

I have used a  25kg "CQR" Anchor with 10m of 16mm chain plus 30m 20mm rope fixed to to a mount in the well deck bulkhead. (48ft)

The anchor,chain and rope are kept in a old garden planter under the side step,  Only once have I had to use it in a emergency, that was

when just after coming out of Salters lode lock, the engine stopped dead in gear (fender rope wrapped round shaft(someone elses)).

Nipped up to the bows and lower the anchor over the side until the boat stopped midstream.

 

Now that is massive ground tackle, I know I would struggle to get a 25kg CQR either in to or out of the locker, and I'd have no chance of retrieving it manually. 

I d need a windlass, a bow roller and a chain locker to retrieve that lot, and about an hour's labour for a fit young man. 

 Not for me. 

See SV panope on YouTube, he tests lots of anchors, and retrieves them manually, he does not use 25kg CQR, or 10m of 16mm chain. A bit of chain helps with anchor setting, but 16 mm is RN issue 🇬🇪

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I know I would struggle to get a 25kg CQR out of the locker,

 

But your gas cylinder weighs more than that (normally around 26-27kgs), and a toilet cassette is ~20kg.

 

You'd be surprised how strong you are when the adrenalin flows.

[LadyG]

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

But your gas cylinder weighs more than that (normally around 26-27kgs), and a toilet cassette is ~20kg.

 

You'd be surprised how strong you are when the adrenalin flows.

The gas cylinder is removed when empty, I can lift it with one hand. Not easy to manoeuvre it when full. 

I don't keep my cassette in the bow locker, which is just as well.

I store anchor, chain and 14mm anchor plait in the pointy end, easy enough to retrieve in stages without ending up in traction. 

I used to carry 52lb sheep feed on my shoulder and walk up the hill to feed the ewes, I can't do that nowadays. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by LadyG

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The gas cylinder is removed when empty, I can lift it with one hand. 

I don't keep my cassette in the bow locker, which is just as well. 

 

 

Yes because keeping it in your bow locker will invalidate your BSS. And this in turn makes your insurance invalid, so your boat now also becomes unlicensed. So when you sink it in the next lock or your engine fails as you pass close by the next weir, you're in deep trouble. 

 

Hey this extrapolating to disasters from trivial and/or highly unlikely events is FUN! 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

17 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The gas cylinder is removed when empty, I can lift it with one hand. 

 

Presumably you find 'a litte man' to put your replacement cylinder in the locker for you.

[David J Smith]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Is this a one off trip from the Great Ouse to the Grand Union, or do you expect to regularly navigate rivers? If the latter it may be worth investing in a better anchor, but if you are going to stay on the canals, then it may be better just to take extra care on your first trip.

Yes its a one off trip from the Ouse,to the GU. Apart from the Trent/Avon etc. 

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, David john Smith said:

Oh dear. Have I really made such a big mistake in buying the Danforth?? I only went there, because our previous 57 ft narrow boat had one. We never had to use it. So I wasn't aware of its possible poor performance.  I've have seen Danforth anchors stored on the roofs of narrow boats. I just thought they were the "Way to go". As I mentioned we are on the Great river Ouse in Cambridgeshire. And will be heading to the grand union canal.  Will someone come on here and say that the Danforth worked for them in an emergency. As I've lost confidence in my"Stupid " decision. I dare not tell the wife. Coz she has concerns as to where we store the darn thing.

Thanks for all your help and guidance guys

 

99% of narrowboaters that carry an anchor carry a Danforth. They is very little evidence of narrowboaters deploying anchors of any kind and I have never seen a report of where a Danforth didn't work where something else would have.

 

33 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Yes because keeping it in your bow locker will invalidate your BSS. And this in turn makes your insurance invalid, so your boat now also becomes unlicensed. So when you sink it in the next lock or your engine fails as you pass close by the next weir, you're in deep trouble. 

 

Hey this extrapolating to disasters from trivial and/or highly unlikely events is FUN! 

 

 

Well it has definitely worried a new boater

 

34 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 

Yes because keeping it in your bow locker will invalidate your BSS. And this in turn makes your insurance invalid, so your boat now also becomes unlicensed. So when you sink it in the next lock or your engine fails as you pass close by the next weir, you're in deep trouble. 

 

Hey this extrapolating to disasters from trivial and/or highly unlikely events is FUN! 

 

 

Please Sir, I haven't got a gas cylinder in my bow locker so I am not going to die.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Please Sir, I haven't got a gas cylinder in my bow locker so I am not going to die.

 

When I had a boat neither did we. Dam silly place to put cylinders in, especially if you have a cratch board, too easy to do yourself a mischief when changing them. My small bow locker was used as a chain locker with a sort of hawser pipe above. Very easy to deploy the anchor but probably not when going downstream on the smaller rivers.

 

No BSS implications at all and no insurance problems either. it all deepends upon the boat's design.

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

99% of narrowboaters that carry an anchor carry a Danforth. They is very little evidence of narrowboaters deploying anchors of any kind and I have never seen a report of where a Danforth didn't work where something else would have.

 

Well it has definitely worried a new boater

 

Mine's a Danforth, came with the boat thirty years ago and never been in the water. And, apart from once every four years, it lives in the gas locker. When I go on a river I tie a bit of string to the chain, though what good that would do when it's forty foot away from where I'm wrestling with the tiller I dunno. The rest of the time it's ballast.