Chesterfield Canal: Public Consultation on Chesterfield - Staveley Regeneration

[PD1964]

2 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

 

What a judgemental individual you are! 

 

Firstly, the volunteers appearing in that photo are predominantly not members of Chesterfield Canal Trust. They are volunteers that have chosen to come along for the day to help maintain their canal on a programme organised by Chesterfield Canal Trust in partnership with CRT. 

 

I am sure those in that photo who are in their 30's, work full time and chose to give a day off to assist the programme of works will appreciate you wholeheartedly ageist opinion of them. In fact 6 out of the 10 volunteers that day work full time and we get fully subscribed at weekends because so many people who usually work Monday to Friday choose to come out at weekends. Perhaps I should tell them they should not come as they need to go and do some overtime instead? 

 

I will conceded that the programme is predominantly organised by this old fogey and her husband (even though I am still have several years to go before I qualify for a pension). Yes we find things to do in retirement, we organise stuff so the workers can join us on their day off. 

 

Today we have been joined by a lovely chap in his 30's who works in the NHS. He decided to book some annual leave to join us. Also a lass in her 30's who usually packs dog food for a living. She wants to come back with her 16 year old son when she can slot it in as she says he would love it. It seems they should have more important things to do with their time according to you?

 

I just spend my time thoroughly enjoying myself surrounded by passionate individuals from all walks of life. Each of them has a part to play, we all have our strengths and weaknesses and that is how working as a team comes into it's own. Experience comes with age, an experienced boat handler is important to keep a deep draughted boat from going aground when you need to reach litter or vegetation. Experienced people overseeing volunteers who might never have been on a boat before keeps them safe, clearly because they are retired they should hang up their windlass and don their slippers and take up a pipe because in your view people who have retired have no value to the restoration or maintenance of the canal system. 

 

I am finished with this discussion. 

 

I refuse to engage any further with someone who spouts such a lot of drivel passing it off as factual when you clearly have spent no time at all researching what the truth is about the restoration of the Chesterfield Canal before forming your opinion. 

 

Your opinions are, in my view, very offensive to those who so freely give their time to benefit the canals. That includes me. 

 

 

And what a self righteous person you are!!

 I talk about the link to connect the canal and all you talk about is volunteers. They are cleaning moss from the stones and collecting litter, while nothing  seams to be done about the connection except colourful plans and talk.

  I talk to DCC groundsman, Rangers and CaRT staff who are employed to work on the Chesterfield, not volunteers. These people also question the connection and often say this is all about the self importance and ego of the members of the CCT Trust and see the top section only being used by CCT trip boats.

  Last time I took my boat to Shireoaks, I seen two boats moving the whole Canal(not just day tripping from Clayworth or Shireoaks) It’s a picturesque canal, but shallow and problematic with weed. The lock before Shireoaks was also broken by a Shireoaks moorer who couldn’t wait for it to empty so decided to ram it. Who did I call? CaRT not CCT as CaRT repaired it, not CCT. Going back I seen CaRT contractors clearing the weed and cutting it back not CCT.

 You can steer Python up and down all day clearing moss, painting bollards but in reality that is all your doing.

  The boaters I speak to want the navigation navigable, they want to be able to moor and not get grounded, they want the weed cut. Is CCT going to fix these issues or just carry on litter picking?

  Remember this is a discussion forum and people will have differing opinions then yours, so please respect that.

[David Mack]

With respect, I only see one person on this thread who is not showing respect to others - whether that be the volunteers, younger and older, who give their time to keep the canal clean and tidy, or those whose role is behind the scenes, drawing up plans for restoration, promoting the project, seeking out public and political support, chasing sources of funding, accepting the inevitable setbacks, while continuing to campaign for the long term goal.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

And what a self righteous person you are!!

 I talk about the link to connect the canal and all you talk about is volunteers. They are cleaning moss from the stones and collecting litter, while nothing  seams to be done about the connection except colourful plans and talk.

  I talk to DCC groundsman, Rangers and CaRT staff who are employed to work on the Chesterfield, not volunteers. These people also question the connection and often say this is all about the self importance and ego of the members of the CCT Trust and see the top section only being used by CCT trip boats.

  Last time I took my boat to Shireoaks, I seen two boats moving the whole Canal(not just day tripping from Clayworth or Shireoaks) It’s a picturesque canal, but shallow and problematic with weed. The lock before Shireoaks was also broken by a Shireoaks moorer who couldn’t wait for it to empty so decided to ram it. Who did I call? CaRT not CCT as CaRT repaired it, not CCT. Going back I seen CaRT contractors clearing the weed and cutting it back not CCT.

 You can steer Python up and down all day clearing moss, painting bollards but in reality that is all your doing.

  The boaters I speak to want the navigation navigable, they want to be able to moor and not get grounded, they want the weed cut. Is CCT going to fix these issues or just carry on litter picking?

  Remember this is a discussion forum and people will have differing opinions then yours, so please respect that.

 

It is indeed a discussion forum.

 

So perhaps it would be a good idea if you could outline your contribution to the restoration?

 

You seem critical of other's efforts, what has yours been please?

[PD1964]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

With respect, I only see one person on this thread who is not showing respect to others - whether that be the volunteers, younger and older, who give their time to keep the canal clean and tidy, or those whose role is behind the scenes, drawing up plans for restoration, promoting the project, seeking out public and political support, chasing sources of funding, accepting the inevitable setbacks, while continuing to campaign for the long term goal.

 Maybe because I’ve heard the same talk for so many years boating in the SSY area and seen little progress.

  This is about the link not the volunteers. There are enough problems navigating the Chesterfield canal that need to be sorted, which would benefit visiting boats from the Trent then adding a couple of miles to Staveley.

  There are not that many boats visiting this canal, maybe they should look at why this is.

Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

 

It is indeed a discussion forum.

 

So perhaps it would be a good idea if you could outline your contribution to the restoration?

 

You seem critical of other's efforts, what has yours been please?

None just like you. But the restoration does not interest me when I’m scrapping the bottom and struggling through weed to get to Shireoaks never mind worrying to get to Staveley.

  

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

 

None just like you. But the restoration does not interest me when I’m scrapping the bottom and struggling through weed to get to Shireoaks never mind worrying to get to Staveley.

  

 

I never claimed I had contributed (other than a small cash donation many years ago).

 

Im not crticising, you are. So what do you think gives you the right?

[PD1964]

6 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

I never claimed I had contributed (other than a small cash donation many years ago).

 

Im not crticising, you are. So what do you think gives you the right?

What am I criticising? I’m allowed an opinion, have you done the Chesterfield or once again touting for an argument at midnight?

[David Mack]

11 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  There are not that many boats visiting this canal, maybe they should look at why this is.

One of the main reasons the Chesterfield doesn't see a lot of visiting boats is because the only access is off the tidal Trent, which is not something every boater is confident enough to attempt. And getting there from the main connected canal system involves about 3 days each way in addition to time on the Chesterfield itself which, which makes it quite a long trip for those boaters who don't have extended boating time. Nothing can be done about those factors, but if the canal could be extended fron Norwood to the Staveley section, the longer canal would be more attractive and more worth the effort of getting there for visiting boats, and also would provide a longer 'home' length for people to base their boats on, both of which would increase boat movements, which in turn will help keep the weed down.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, PD1964 said:

What am I criticising? I’m allowed an opinion, have you done the Chesterfield or once again touting for an argument at midnight?

 

Im not touting for an argument. 

 

Do you understand what 'criticising' means? 

 

Whether I have done the Chesterfield or not is irelavent.

 

Please answer the question. What have you contributed to the restoration?

 

 

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

But the restoration does not interest me when I’m scrapping the bottom and struggling through weed to get to Shireoaks never mind worrying to get to Staveley.

 

Yes it is a bit on the shallow side, but even deep drafted boats can get through. I have taken a 70 footer drawing 3 feet all the way up to Stret Lock, where it was a lack of width, rather than depth which stopped us. Stret Lock has since been widened so I look forward to a return trip.

[PD1964]

5 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Im not touting for an argument. 

 

Do you understand what 'criticising' means? 

 

Whether I have done the Chesterfield or not is irelavent.

 

Please answer the question. What have you contributed to the restoration?

 

 

  Here we go,

Simple answer nothing, as I think it’s a pipe dream, like many others and that won’t be achieved for many many years. Happy now?

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Yes it is a bit on the shallow side, but even deep drafted boats can get through. I have taken a 70 footer drawing 3 feet all the way up to Stret Lock, where it was a lack of width, rather than depth which stopped us. Stret Lock has since been widened so I look forward to a return trip.

Middle of summer?

When are you doing a return trip?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

  Here we go,

Simple answer nothing, as I think it’s a pipe dream, like many others and that won’t be achieved for many many years. Happy now?

 

Nothing to do with me being happy.

 

Of course canal restorations wont be achieved for a very long time. This is well known based on the ones that have been done in the past.

[PD1964]

Just now, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Nothing to do with me being happy.

 

Of course canal restorations wont be achieved for a very long time. This is well known based on the ones that have been done in the past.

We agree to that, but they are hoping to have it done by 2027 which I have always said is vey optimistic in my opinion. But certain people think I’m not allowed to have that opinion.

Have a look on their website at their 2927 fund speak and let us know your honest opinion.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, PD1964 said:

We agree to that, but they are hoping to have it done by 2027 which I have always said is vey optimistic in my opinion. But certain people think I’m not allowed to have that opinion.

Have a look on their website at their 2927 fund speak and let us know your honest opinion.

 

?

[PD1964]

17 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

?

 Here’s their proposed route hoping to link up for the 250 year anniversary in 2027, honest opinion please.

  I don’t know if all the relevant consultation work has been done with local residents and all approved or even if the planning applications are in with the relevant authorities.

 

https://chesterfield-canal-trust.org.uk/restoration/new-restoration-sections/

Edited March 22, 2022 by PD1964

[cheshire~rose]

I wanted to share a few facts here. This is intended to inform those who may be reading this thread and may not be too familiar with the canal or the role that the volunteers on Python perform. They are not aimed at any individual.

 

Firstly The Chesterfield Canal does have a reputation for being shallow. It certainly can be shallow if boaters do not stick to the channel. Python is a 3' draught and, although she is only 50' long she has no problem navigating the entire length of the canal. Our own boat is 2'10" draught and has no problems at all, another regular visitor to the summit pound is the historic boat Petrel which is full length. I am unsure what the draught of this boat is but it isn't likely to be shallow. 

There are, I believe, two reasons why people always mention how shallow the canal is. Firstly, when arriving on the canal, any boater will have spent several days on a deep and wide river or river navigation, usually travelling at speeds much faster than those generally travelled on canals. An early section of the canal boaters will encounter is a little on the shallow side (Upstream of Misterton through to Drakeholes). It takes a while for an experienced steerer to mentally revert back to canal speeds after their days on rivers and so it is very easy to forget that your engine is revving a little faster than it did 3-4 days ago on The Trent & Mersey Canal and by keeping a few too many revs on their boats are getting glued to the bottom and often, in frustration, a less experienced boater will often add a few more revs to counteract that effect which simply adds to the problem. I usually suggest boaters arriving on the canal prepare themselves to slow right down and enjoy this beautiful rural stretch of the canal where the views are extensive and the wildlife diverse. Once past Drakeholes things seem to get much easier. I personally am of the opionion that it only feels easier because steerers have now mentally slowed back down to canal speed but far too many boats turn around at that point citing the canal to be too shallow. Of course the other thing about glueing yourself to the bottom is that this is often where the weed is! The weed is usually only a problem during the late spring and early summer. It becomes a problem because there are so few boats on the canal. Boats stir up the silt meaning that the sunliht can't reach the weed and so it does not grow, Boats als chop up the weed with their props so, if you want to save CRT money on paing contractors to cut the weed, come and visit the canal We do not have a weedhatch and have no significant problem with weed on the canal but we do have a cutter on the prop. Boaters who visit the canal are advised to report the worst areas of weed to CRT by dropping them an email: enquiries.yorkshirenortheast@canalrivertrust.org.uk  They find the detailed reports of where the weed is worst useful in directing where the weedboat works. Without lengthsmen it is us boaters who are most use to CRT by reporting things so they can target them. 

The other thng boaters should do on The Chesterfield Canal is to stick to the channel. Unlike the majority of canals that are linked up around the midlands and the south there is very little likelihood of you meeting another boat coming the other way, hold your course in the channel and you will be in the deepest water.

 

Secondly, although what we do with Python has nothing to do with this thread, yes I apologise it was me who took it off topic)  I am posting this here to give a better picture to those who may not know the extent of what the volunteers on Python do. The aim of The Python team is to use volunteers to carry out any tasks that they are able to do that assist CRT in maintaining the canal.

• We carry out planned preventative maintenance of the locks. This includes clearing bywashes (which assists water management and in turn helps to ensure there is enough water for boats to navigate) We scrape the weeds and algal deposits from lock chambers and lock gates. we clear moss and weeds from coping stones and lock quadrants to ensure these surfaces are not slippery for boaters operating the locks. We also grease paddle gear and report any problems we encounter that we are unable to deal with ourselves to CRT.
• We remove dead wood and branches from the water. Last week two days were spent doing this on the top pound of the canal. Those who know the canal will be aware it passes through a wooded area and, not having been able to get up there for too long, fistly due to covid then due to the premature failure of Turnerwood Bottom Lock at the end of the summer this was long overdue. We were able to remove four sizable tree branches from the water and hundreds of large sticks of the type that can foul a lock gate or paddle gear or be problematic passing through a boaters propeller. We encountered a problem on one of the treble locks on our way up to the summit pound when we came across a completely drained lock chamber. The paddle was jammed open with sticks and logs. We were able to get it the paddle operating again ourselves (and the volunteer who went into thechamber to remove the blockage also removed some rocks that may have, at a later date, created a problem by fouling a gate). This was purely about being in the right place at the right time but the majority of leisure boaters would have called CRT out to fix this problem and so by doing it ourselves it frees up CRT staff to do other things. We received an email thnaking us for the work removing branches and wood last week from John Lower. Many people will know John as the author of many respected guides to navigating the waterways of the east midlands. They had been to the head of navigation earlier in the year and had really struggled to get through, there have been 3 storms since their visit. Messages such as his really do make a difference to the teams who are carrying out these works.
• We remove litter. Especially waterborne litter. Cans, bottles, take away wrappers and crisp packets may not impede navigation for most boaters but they look unsightly and are a hazard to wildlife. The plastic bags and items of clothing we remove are far more likely to become problematic if they find a boaters prop. The myriad of community groups who already litter pick the towpaths can't reach the stuff in the water but we can and so we do. Often these trips are very well attended because local people want to litter pick and so we often have a team working alongside the boat on the towpath. The benefit to them over and above a community group walking the towpath is that, when they find something heavy or their bags become full, they can drop them on board and continue with the task. We also remove shopping trolleys and other large items found in the canal, such as tyres,which are far more of a hazard for boaters lurking in the depths. Yesterday we hauled out a metal barrier still with its concrete "feet" attached at the edge of a winding hole. It was impossible to see but we "found it" with Python's hull and although it took three strong guys with a couple of grappling hooks to get it out it has now been picked up by CRT and taken to be disposed of so it can't end up back in the water. Last week we pulled plastic road works barriers out of the water and a traffic cone. These too were picked up and taken away the same day to ensure they did not end up back in the water. We also remove sharps. This can be syringes in urban areas but far more commonly discarded fishing lures and line which can often be at about face height for a boater. We met a visiting boater in Worksop yesterday who is just returning from their trip up to the summit. The gentleman had seen what we were doing with Python last week and decided to come along for a day and join us. Chatting to them yesterday they said they could realy appreciate what we had done because during their journey down the improvements the Python team had made to their navigating was very obvious.
• In autumn we clear overgrown vegetation, especially focusing on the offside. This is work that CRT would usually pay contractors to do, except that if we do it, they can save the money and spend it on other things, maybe dredging or lock repairs? We usually run an 8-10 week programme focussing on overgrown vegetation each autumn and we cover the entire eastern end of the canal during this period. All year round we trim weeping willows. Through Ranby one of the pretty things on that stretch is the beautiful weeping willows that line the canal. They look fabulous but as any boater knows they grow a mile a minute and steering through them can sweep navigational equipment (or your tea) off the cabin top and it can be a less than pleasant experience to do so, showering your boat with leaves and insects as you pass through. With Python's high bow we have a platform where volunteers can do this work, a two person job, one grabs an armfull of willow and gently pulls it downwards as far as they can while another reaches up as high as they can with extending sheers and cuts. This means the length of the willows is reduced and it will (hopefully) take a whle before it gets back to being long enough to sweep a cabin top. These are attended to each time we pass.
• In addition to the tasks already listed we will clean milestones and interpretation boards (walkers and cyclists don't tend to carry a bucket of water and a sponge with them to do that task)
• Yesterday CRT joined us to replace two very old, "no Fishing" signs on an offside wall. In the past they have joined us to prepace a missing bridge number. Both of these occasions occured when their own boat was in a completely different part of the canal and so jumping on board with us they could get the job done much quicker than bringing their own workboat to the area. They know where Python is operating and will liaise with us if there are any notifications we can handle for them while we are in the area. This is saving time and money for CRT so they can spend it doing stuff we can't do on Python.
• Painting canal hardware is not something Python has got involved in yet. It has sometimes been suggested that we do and we are not adverse to doing it but the structures that require a fresh coat of paint do not usually need a boat to get to and so the CRT rangers who are better places to be working static in an area are better placed to do those tasks. freeing Python up to do the stuff that needs a boat to achieve it.

Sadly we are not able to clear weed. When CRT sold off their weedcutting boats CCT were hoping to buy one so we could carry out this task using volunteers but the deal was done to sell them to Fountains who now have the contract for this work (it is not carried out by CRT). We are also unable to dredge the canal but, when Python was laid up for two years awaiting being rebottomed there were many boaters along the canal looking forward to the day Python was regularly navigating the length of the canal as she was keeping the channel open for other boaters. There has been a lot of dredging done on the wors sections of the canal since then. The Python team were consulted by CRT to discuss with them which areas needed to be prioritised for dredging prior to them contracting the works. They know we have a team of experienced steerers who will provide detailed, factual information about the problems we encounter which can be helpful to CRT in planning their works.

 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all the boaters who are part of this forum who have supported Python through the years so we are able to keep providing the volunteer led service we do to help CRT maintain the canal for the boaters who enjoy using it. Without that support and the volunteers from the local communities who rock up whatever the weather to make the canal a better place we could not achieve any of this.

 

If any of you are interested in seeing any more photos of what Python is up to she does have a Facebook Page which can be found by searching for "Python The Workboat"

 

Apolgies for the long post but I wanted to ensure that readers do not think that Python is just an expensive  jolly for a few pensioners to get out on the canal. 

 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 Here’s their proposed route hoping to link up for the 250 year anniversary in 2027, honest opinion please.

  I don’t know if all the relevant consultation work has been done with local residents and all approved or even if the planning applications are in with the relevant authorities.

 

https://chesterfield-canal-trust.org.uk/restoration/new-restoration-sections/

 

My honest opinion?

 

I wish them all the best in their endeavour. As I read it the society faces the same challenges as other restoration projects.

[cheshire~rose]

Ah look!

 

The old age pensioners must have managed to summon up some stamina to make something happen 😉:

 

https://chesterfield-canal-trust.org.uk/5m-canal-restoration-award/

Edited March 24, 2022 by cheshire~rose