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Will it fit?


Moke

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2 minutes ago, NobbyHall said:

Hi All,

 

Newbie here, so a 66' with vintage K2 engine, is seriously going to restrict where i can take her?

 

Not really.

 

You can't do some of the Northern network -  Calder & Hebble, Huddersfield Broad or the L&L between Wigan and Leeds are the most important ones.  You can still do the L&L Wigan to Liverpool as those locks are 72' long.

 

You can go pretty much everywhere else apart from a few short bits of rivers. 

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15 hours ago, Moke said:

  Good morning everyone, I’m just catching up on the replies that came in after I went to bed. To answer some questions, we’re not planning on basing ourselves oop north (it’s just where we’re from is all) The other half has offspring in Lincoln and London, I’ve friends over Birmingham way so I think we’ll be here, there and everywhere. 
  I know a 57 to 60 would be ideal but sometimes when everything else about the boat is good you just have to accept the odd little quirk…….if you can call 12” quirky!!

  By the way, it’s a round cruiser stern 

 

On 16/03/2022 at 20:27, Moke said:

Right now it’s down in Northampton, we’re going for a test drive tomorrow so that’ll be the decider. 

P.S.  I don’t want to go into too much detail because up till now every time we tell someone about what’s happening it all goes south……and I don’t want to jinx this one 

Are you planning on exploring?
If so you need to check out its air draft.
As the boat is on the Nene you need to check if its, been through the Middle Level and on to the Great Ouse.
If not, give it a miss.  
We have done all the system at 58'-6" (L&L, Chesterfield & SSY to Sheffield, last trip out) never had a problem mooring or with locks but I agree the L&L locks are in poor condition you will probably get wet anyway at 55'-0". Good Luck.


Edited by oboat
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The plan is to travel the country. Yes were from Yorkshire and that’s where most of the families are hence the LL question, that said we’ve covered a fair bit of the canal in hire boats so it’s not like we HAVE to do it all it’s more a case of convenience.

  As with pretty much everything boat shaped it’s a case of trading one thing against another in an attempt to get the best fit. 

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On 17/03/2022 at 20:43, oboat said:

As the boat is on the Nene you need to check if its, been through the Middle Level and on to the Great Ouse.

If not, give it a miss.  

I don't see why, lots of people own narrowboats in Northamptonshire and don't take them in that direction. The low points (bridges at Oundle and Upwell and at some tide levels Salter's Lode lock) should be manageable for nearly all narrowboats at normal river levels, it just might involve removing chimneys and even solar panels for some.

 

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On 18/03/2022 at 18:54, Moke said:

The plan is to travel the country. Yes were from Yorkshire and that’s where most of the families are hence the LL question, that said we’ve covered a fair bit of the canal in hire boats so it’s not like we HAVE to do it all it’s more a case of convenience.

  As with pretty much everything boat shaped it’s a case of trading one thing against another in an attempt to get the best fit. 

 

I'm sure you're aware of which length boats will go where over the Pennines, but it's definitely worth thinking about what the consequences are if/when one (or two...) of the three are blocked by stoppages, as is happening more and more in recent years.

 

55'-60' or under gives you a choice of 3 routes, which reduces the chances of being stuck for ages on "the wrong side" (or whichever you think is "wrong"...). With 62' you're down to two, above this one only. And of course if all three are blocked (which has happened...) then you're screwed however long your boat is... 😞

 

A 58'-60' boat will be very wet in some locks, less of a problem for some boat designs (e.g. tug deck, trad stern) than others (e.g. open well deck, cruiser stern) -- but I'm sure you know this 😉

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43 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Which Transpennine route will accommodate a boat over 62' without you having to turn round and go back the same way you came?

Should have made it clearer -- I meant you can at least get over the top on the Rochdale and HNC, assuming you originally started in Lancashire which most people do, but you'll then have to turn round before the C&H or HBC.

 

If you want to travel up North 60' (or less if you want to stay dryer...) makes the most sense, 62' restricts you to the L&L plus the above out-and-backs and therefore the stoppage problem.

Edited by IanD
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On 16/03/2022 at 19:53, The Happy Nomad said:

 

Worth checking what a boat's actual length is. You may get a pleasant surprise.

 

 

 

 

 

Or an unpleasant one. In our case we opted to buy a 62ft so as to at least have the option of one route over the Pennines (the L&L) but when we had the pre-purchase survey he measured it as 62'6". He measured it several times to confirm the accuracy but despite this we still went ahead because we loved the boat and the survey confirmed it was in really good condition. But that extra 6 inches has made us too wary about doing the full length of the L&L especially as it's a cruiser stern.

 

Instead we hired a boat for 2 weeks a few years ago to just do the 'nice' section between Foulridge Tunnel and Shipley. Not the same of course but better than all the risk and hassle of doing it in our own boat.

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6 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I've not done the L&L but if I were and I wanted to stay dry on those locks, wouldn't I just be able to work the lock from the bank like I do single-handing anyway?

And maybe watch your boat sink in the lock? The problem is leaking and overtopping gates when ascending filling the boat faster than the scuppers, drains and pumps can cope.

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Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

And maybe watch your boat sink in the lock? The problem is leaking and overtopping gates when ascending filling the boat faster than the scuppers, drains and pumps can cope.

If my boat is going to sink, I'd rather not be on it.  What do single handers do on the L&L?

I've done the Rochdale and the C&H single handing with water coming over the gates and shorter locks.  Doors closed, cratch covers on.  Tell me what someone on the stern might do to prevent a sinking which someone on the bank couldn't do?  Personally I priortise being able to close paddles quickly above all else.

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25 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

And maybe watch your boat sink in the lock? The problem is leaking and overtopping gates when ascending filling the boat faster than the scuppers, drains and pumps can cope.

Would a cheap tarpaulin over the cruise deck not make most of the water run back into the lock rather than into the engine bay?

 

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38 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

If my boat is going to sink, I'd rather not be on it.  What do single handers do on the L&L?

 

My thoughts too, and not only for the L&L. I never stay on my boat in a lock as if a problem crops up, there is usually very little one can do about it from the helm. One needs to be up on the bank, with a windlass. Even if there are 'helpful' other boaters casually telling you to 'stay on the boat'. Especially, in fact. 

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52 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

And maybe watch your boat sink in the lock? The problem is leaking and overtopping gates when ascending filling the boat faster than the scuppers, drains and pumps can cope.

I've seen that happen on those locks, and nearly got washed off the stern when going down. The solution is a boat which keeps water out at both ends, a tug deck at the bows and a semi-trad/trad stern with doors over an upstand and a "chute" weed hatch -- which is what I'm doing since I intend to take the boat (60') through all the Northern canals without drowning or sinking. But then that option's not available to most boat buyers who have to take what they're given...

 

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My thoughts too, and not only for the L&L. I never stay on my boat in a lock as if a problem crops up, there is usually very little one can do about it from the helm. One needs to be up on the bank, with a windlass. Even if there are 'helpful' other boaters casually telling you to 'stay on the boat'. Especially, in fact. 

 

Absolutely agree, anyone on the boat is mostly useless in an emergency like this, you need people on the bank -- for example, to drop sodding hydraulic paddles when the boat hangs up on a protruding stone... 😞

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21 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

My thoughts too, and not only for the L&L. I never stay on my boat in a lock as if a problem crops up, there is usually very little one can do about it from the helm. One needs to be up on the bank, with a windlass. Even if there are 'helpful' other boaters casually telling you to 'stay on the boat'. Especially, in fact. 

It can be a tough call when 'helpers' call down, "no, no, you stay on, we'll do the lock for you."  I make a very snap judgement about whether they look like idiots.  If I have concerns, I get off the boat anyway, and usually play it down by saying something like "I'm used to doing it myself".

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5 hours ago, IanD said:

I've seen that happen on those locks, and nearly got washed off the stern when going down. The solution is a boat which keeps water out at both ends, a tug deck at the bows and a semi-trad/trad stern with doors over an upstand and a "chute" weed hatch -- which is what I'm doing since I intend to take the boat (60') through all the Northern canals without drowning or sinking. But then that option's not available to most boat buyers who have to take what they're given...

I would say 60ft is the max I would like to take down the L&L, going up is not the problem if large enough scuppers, you’ll still get wet though coming down😂 when are you picking it up from Sheffield????

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54 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I would say 60ft is the max I would like to take down the L&L, going up is not the problem if large enough scuppers, you’ll still get wet though coming down😂 when are you picking it up from Sheffield????

Hopefully shouldn't get too wet standing inside the closed rear doors (semi-trad). Nothing on the L&L is as wet as coming down Salterhebble with a fountain from underneath the leaky top gates... 😉

 

Sometime early next year if all goes to plan 🙂

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  • 2 months later...

Back to the original point of "Will it fit?"

 

Yesterday's answer was no.  Hire boat from Cheshire came up Poolstock and headed into lock 85.

 

I say headed into rather than went into the lock because the stern of the boat was protruding a few feet beyond the tailgate heel posts when the bow was touching the cill!

 

The people on the boat have rethought their original plan of going up Wigan flight.  It turns out taking enough crew to make working the 62' locks easier doesn't work too well if you hire a 68' boat to accommodate them ...

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On 17/03/2022 at 09:46, MtB said:

 

 

 

 

On 17/03/2022 at 09:46, MtB said:

 

 

I suspect this happens quite a lot. If a slight (or big) mis-measure gets noticed once the shell construction is under way, adjusting the length is a big undertaking and the shell builder is likely to want to persuade/pressure the customer to accept it the length it is, with perhaps a cash adjustment rather than change it. IF it gets noticed in the first place.

 

I have to admit I never measured the only new shell I ever had built, I just accepted that having ordered 58ft, that this was what they delivered. I just ordered the longest bare shell I could afford! It certainly looked about right but I guess it could have been anything from 56ft to 60ft and I probably wouldn't have noticed. 

 

 

it is quite common for boats to shrink when paying for a mooring or licence

Edited by Phoenix_V
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On 23/03/2022 at 09:48, Number 9 said:

Would a cheap tarpaulin over the cruise deck not make most of the water run back into the lock rather than into the engine bay?

 

I've got a flat cruiser deck so any 'surplus'water will run over the sides. But I've still had problems in some locks/?heavy rain with water down the cracks around the hatches getting into the bilge by overwhelming the drain channels. Nothing 'fatal'.

Just been supermarket shopping and saw reels of wide (?3") adhesive fabric backed tape. So how's about a reel of that and 'tape up' the cracks on a temporary basis when facing downhill, leaky locks? May feel a bit more secure that standing on a wet, insecure tarpaulin.

In fact, I may consider this as 'insurance' against heavy rain or snow over a Winter lay-up.

Edited by Opener
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10 minutes ago, Opener said:

I've got a flat cruiser deck so any 'surplus'water will run over the sides. But I've still had problems in some locks/?heavy rain with water down the cracks around the hatches getting into the bilge by overwhelming the drain channels. Nothing 'fatal'.

Just been supermarket shopping and saw reels of wide (?3") adhesive fabric backed tape. So how's about a reel of that and 'tape up' the cracks on a temporary basis when facing downhill, leaky locks? May feel a bit more secure that standing on a wet, insecure tarpaulin.

In fact, I may consider this as 'insurance' against heavy rain or snow over a Winter lay-up.

Why are so many cruiser decks so poorly designed for keeping water out?  Mine has these little culverts which are easily clogged up and impossible to clean properly, let alone repaint.  Why not have really large drainage channels with a removable cover over?  And why not design deck boards properly so that run-off goes directly into those channels, rather than creeping along the underside of the boards and into bilges?  Why not have the drainage channels on a proper slope so they actually drain properly?  For overall useability, I prefer cruisers over trads and semi-trads, but the constant battle to keep bilges dry is really off-putting.

 

I know it's not just my boat, pretty much all the cruiser sterns I've seen are much the same.

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44 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

And why not design deck boards properly so that run-off goes directly into those channels, rather than creeping along the underside of the boards and into bilges?

I've often wondered by cruiser stern deckboards aren't fitted with downstands around the edge that would ensure water goes down into the channel. But any design will still have the weakness that if the channels (or their outlets) become blocked, water will eventually overflow into the bilges. Larger channels just mean it will take longer before this happens.

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1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

Why are so many cruiser decks so poorly designed for keeping water out?  Mine has these little culverts which are easily clogged up and impossible to clean properly, let alone repaint.  Why not have really large drainage channels with a removable cover over?  And why not design deck boards properly so that run-off goes directly into those channels, rather than creeping along the underside of the boards and into bilges?  Why not have the drainage channels on a proper slope so they actually drain properly?  For overall useability, I prefer cruisers over trads and semi-trads, but the constant battle to keep bilges dry is really off-putting.

 

I know it's not just my boat, pretty much all the cruiser sterns I've seen are much the same.

It could be a big conspiracy with the makers of pram hoods etc. 🤔😉

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