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4 hours ago, Goliath said:

Aren’t there a couple of trip boats that use horses?

Is the one on the K&A still doing it?

And how about the woman who did a few long trips with one? 
Forgot her name, (is it Day?), she appears at gatherings and demonstrates how to dress a horse.

 

 

To add; Sue Day is who I’m thinking of.

A while back we did see ger and her crew on, I think, the Lower Peak Forest. As we were approaching a tunnel (Hyde Bank?) I wondered how they would get the boat through. They just unhitched and let it drift through. It is surprising how far a loaded boat will go if started off at horse speed.

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4 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I know / assume this is a thread in jest. However we actually  asked BW ('twas that long ago) and 'they' said 'canals were not built for horses' . No sense of history - some people....

 

We had a failed show jumper / hunter and had him broken to harness, so had all the tack for driving and which could be adapted for long lining, thus it was nor a totally specious request. I'm glad we didn't - the yhought of boxding him all the way up to t'midlands plus overnight stops and stabling would be quite an effort in its own...

 

While researching the project, we asked Caggy what sorth of hore he had in the past and his reply was - 'dunno, we just harness him up and work him.

 

So much for keeping traditions alive.....

I realise that this sub thread is more humorous than factual but some modern parlance would see 'designed' as synonymous with 'intended' or 'suitable' rather than referring to what was in an engineer's mind two centuries ago. In that way it would be correct to say towpaths are not for horses even if that is the result of several generations of maintenance plans, not to mention their conversion to cycleways.

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18 hours ago, Goliath said:

Not just cars either,

lorries, buses and ice cream vans

 

I used to drive me ice cream van over Cragg Vale and them cyclist riding two abreast

Soon shifted when I played me jingle tunes

 

Enough of your sauce😉.

You are obliged to give way these days, and give 1.5m clearance when passing.

Did you park up near the reservoir at the top, in the big layby. 

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3 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Enough of your sauce😉.

You are obliged to give way these days, and give 1.5m clearance when passing.

Did you park up near the reservoir at the top, in the big layby. 

😃I always gave them lots of room, Sunday’s were the worst.

Everyone and their bike on a Sunday. 
Cragg Vale is something like the longest continual up hill climb.

 

I used to drop the non drivers off in the lay-by, by Blackstone Reservoir.

Then I’d make my way to Rotherham. Clifford Park was my patch. 

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1 minute ago, Goliath said:

😃I always gave them lots of room, Sunday’s were the worst.

Everyone and their bike on a Sunday. 
Cragg Vale is something like the longest continual up hill climb.

 

I used to drop the non drivers off in the lay-by, by Blackstone Reservoir.

Then I’d make my way to Rotherham. Clifford Park was my patch. 

Yes it's the longest hill, 4 miles. Watched the Tour De France come up a few years back, faster than we could go on the flat. 

It's a Strava challenge or summat. 

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Just now, Jim Riley said:

Yes it's the longest hill, 4 miles. Watched the Tour De France come up a few years back, faster than we could go on the flat. 

It's a Strava challenge or summat. 

Its a lovely bouncy drive, especially at the edges where the ground has sank.

Best kept to the centre of the road. 

Had to be careful not to break me King Cones at £100 a box!!

 

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A few years ago there was an interview in one if the canal mags with an old hand from the horse-drawn boat era that mentioned their horses. He said that they just  used to buy up anything cheap, the biters, kickers and bolters. The biters and kickers found no-one to bite and kick on the tow path, and the bolters found they couldn't bolt with 30 tons of barge, so they all soon quietened down.

Edited by Ronaldo47
typos
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2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

A while back we did see ger and her crew on, I think, the Lower Peak Forest. As we were approaching a tunnel (Hyde Bank?) I wondered how they would get the boat through. They just unhitched and let it drift through. It is surprising how far a loaded boat will go if started off at horse speed.

Hyde Bank tunnel (just before Marple aqueduct and locks) is quite long with no path, and horses went over the top. I'm amazed that momentum would take a boat through there.

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7 hours ago, OldGoat said:

While researching the project, we asked Caggy what sorth of hor(s)e he had in the past and his reply was - 'dunno, we just harness him up and work him.

 

My impression is the horse was more likely to be an ass than a horse. A real horse was (is) worth much more than an ass and an ass does the job just as well.

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3 hours ago, Goliath said:

Cragg Vale is something like the longest continual up hill climb.

 

3 hours ago, Jim Riley said:

Yes it's the longest hill, 4 miles. Watched the Tour De France come up a few years back, faster than we could go on the flat. 

The longest continuous ascent in England. Climbs 968 feet in 5.5 miles. And formed part of the Tour de France Grand Départ route in 2014.

 

[And to stay on topic, the bottom of the ascent is not far from the Rochdale Canal at Mytholmroyd].

Edited by David Mack
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To get back on topic.   What about.. Mounting a treadmill in the middle of the boat - connected to side mounted paddle wheels or even a single rear mounted paddle wheel.  Then horse could be kept warm and dry, automatic feeder and watering devices arranged keeps animal welfare people happy. Automatic scoop and sling for the ordure would make single handing a breeze and no tow line to worry about.   Where's Bizzard when you need him?

Chris

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1 hour ago, MtB said:

My impression is the horse was more likely to be an ass than a horse. A real horse was (is) worth much more than an ass and an ass does the job just as well.

If you have a 35' long narrowboat, then hauling it would be a half ass job.

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12 minutes ago, CIEL said:

To get back on topic.   What about.. Mounting a treadmill in the middle of the boat - connected to side mounted paddle wheels or even a single rear mounted paddle wheel.  Then horse could be kept warm and dry, automatic feeder and watering devices arranged keeps animal welfare people happy. Automatic scoop and sling for the ordure would make single handing a breeze and no tow line to worry about.   Where's Bizzard when you need him?

Chris

Its been done 

Made in Canada — The Horse Ferry - YouTube

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2 hours ago, BilgePump said:

Hyde Bank tunnel (just before Marple aqueduct and locks) is quite long with no path, and horses went over the top. I'm amazed that momentum would take a boat through there.

They “legged” the boats through the tunnels; they would lie on their backs in pairs either side on a plank of wood on the deck. Putting their feet on the roof of the tunnel and pushing it through the tunnel. 

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5 minutes ago, Balloon said:

They “legged” the boats through the tunnels; they would lie on their backs in pairs either side on a plank of wood on the deck. Putting their feet on the roof of the tunnel and pushing it through the tunnel. 

 

I have to say I agree with you, if a boat would go through a tunnel from sheer momentum why would anyone ever go to the trouble and effort of legging? 

 

How long is Hyde Bank tunnel? Mebbe legging only happened in the longer tunnels like Braunston and Blisworth

 

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1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

I have to say I agree with you, if a boat would go through a tunnel from sheer momentum why would anyone ever go to the trouble and effort of legging? 

 

How long is Hyde Bank tunnel? Mebbe legging only happened in the longer tunnels like Braunston and Blisworth

 

Hyde Bank tunnel
 
Hyde Bank Tunnel. This tunnel is the second of the three original tunnels on the Peak Forest Canal and it is situated in Romiley. It is 308 yards long and it has no towpath but boats can pass inside it. Boats were propelled through it by 'legging'.
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2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I have to say I agree with you, if a boat would go through a tunnel from sheer momentum why would anyone ever go to the trouble and effort of legging? 

 

How long is Hyde Bank tunnel? Mebbe legging only happened in the longer tunnels like Braunston and Blisworth

 

 

Speed might be reason. Time was money to a working boater. If it is possible to drift through - and having used that method to traverse the caverns and basins of Dudley Tunnel I don't discount it - it wouldn't be quick.

 

In most long tunnels tugs replaced legging.

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I have legged a boat through Hyde Bank  dozens of times in the past . Getting the boat up to speed with the horse before casting the line off is the secret. The profile of the canal and a 1mph current from Marple means any momentum is soon lost. The leggers need to be ready to work as soon as  they are in the tunnel, it is difficult to start the boat from a dead stand when legging. We never used a plank across the boat to leg, far too dangerous.Always from the roof.

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12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:
Hyde Bank tunnel
 
Hyde Bank Tunnel. This tunnel is the second of the three original tunnels on the Peak Forest Canal and it is situated in Romiley. It is 308 yards long and it has no towpath but boats can pass inside it. Boats were propelled through it by 'legging'.

As an aside, has anyone actually passed  boats in Hyde Bank?Although width appears to be ok, the roof profile would be very limiting  for modern boats with full length cabins. I have never seen it attempted,  I always wait for any boats in the tunnel to emerge.

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17 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

I realise that this sub thread is more humorous than factual but some modern parlance would see 'designed' as synonymous with 'intended' or 'suitable' rather than referring to what was in an engineer's mind two centuries ago. In that way it would be correct to say towpaths are not for horses even if that is the result of several generations of maintenance plans, not to mention their conversion to cycleways.

I am not sure exactly what you are suggesting. If it is that on the earliest canals in the 18th century only manual towage was used, as that is definitely incorrect. Almost all English canals were designed for horse towage right from the start, and that is what made them innovative. Horse towage had been used on the trekvaart system in the Low Countries from the 17th century, but that was just for passenger boats, and horse towage was used on some shallow rivers in Europe, but manual towage was more general. Manual towage continued on rivers in this country, but on cargo carrying canals horse towage was almost universal from the start.

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You are missing a big moneyspinner.

with an orse you can lease hime to the continual moorers once a fortnight. Schedule correctly for bridge hopping ( bridge cantering) and you will never have to do more than 1400 yds a fortnight.

you could have special rates for the broken down rate engine brigade who infest moorings next to roads for 6 months while‘sourcing’ the rare and special oil for topping up their bmc 1.5.

 

 

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1 hour ago, billh said:

I have legged a boat through Hyde Bank  dozens of times in the past . Getting the boat up to speed with the horse before casting the line off is the secret. The profile of the canal and a 1mph current from Marple means any momentum is soon lost. The leggers need to be ready to work as soon as  they are in the tunnel, it is difficult to start the boat from a dead stand when legging. We never used a plank across the boat to leg, far too dangerous.Always from the roof.

Legging from a plank at the bow is probably the best way as it keeps the boat central. Having legged through Preston Brook, where the width varies considerably, you had to keep chatting to your mate about how much space you had between the boat and the tunnel side. Not doing so meant you ended up either with your legs dangling over the end of the plank, or your knees hitting your chin. There is a short mention of legging through Preston Brook in the book below, the main part being a translation of an Austrian book from 1817 on canal building. The author visited England in 1795 to look at canal building, and describes briefly passing through Preston Brook. It seems to suggest that boats seem to have been made into trains, the length depending upon how many boats were waiting, with legging being done by more than two people.

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7 minutes ago, roland elsdon said:

You are missing a big moneyspinner.

with an orse you can lease hime to the continual moorers once a fortnight. Schedule correctly for bridge hopping ( bridge cantering) and you will never have to do more than 1400 yds a fortnight.

you could have special rates for the broken down rate engine brigade who infest moorings next to roads for 6 months while‘sourcing’ the rare and special oil for topping up their bmc 1.5.

 

 

 

Unfortunately a commercial licence for towing requires that customer's boats are not left on public moorings. Although whether they can be abandoned in mid channel to find their own way to the bank is a moot point.

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14 hours ago, Balloon said:

They “legged” the boats through the tunnels; they would lie on their backs in pairs either side on a plank of wood on the deck. Putting their feet on the roof of the tunnel and pushing it through the tunnel. 

I'm aware of that. Was responding to a previous poster who said that he had seen one drift through, which kind of amazed me.

 

eta: Hyde Bank tunnel is 308 yards long according to my ancient Nicholson guide to the North West

Edited by BilgePump
added tunnel detail
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17 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

 

Unfortunately a commercial licence for towing requires that customer's boats are not left on public moorings. Although whether they can be abandoned in mid channel to find their own way to the bank is a moot point.

Really? When we had commercial licences we used to put boats where the owner requested. That must be a new condition.

Having said that in those days most jobs we did were breakdowns and sinkers, the breakdowns were genuine.

 

Towed a 14 ft wide houseboat pontoon from ricky to uxbridge dock once. That was fun. Frightening going down denham deep lock.

 

 

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