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New boat prices rising due to increased costs


IanD

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On 15/03/2022 at 08:11, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Some of the wrecks being sold at inflated prices could very soon become negatively-buoyant.

I've spent most of this year looking at those "wrecks", I hate coming away thinking £35,000 buys you little more than driftwood in years to come. But hey, that's my budget. I'll keep looking I guess. 

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Six months on and I think that new boat prices will become unaffordable to all but the very rich due to energy price increases.

This will lead to a large turndown in the industry with only a few survivors. Similar to about 20 years ago when boat builders were going bust at an alarming rate.

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7 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Six months on and I think that new boat prices will become unaffordable to all but the very rich due to energy price increases.

This will lead to a large turndown in the industry with only a few survivors. Similar to about 20 years ago when boat builders were going bust at an alarming rate.

There is a 60` narrowboat featured in Waterways World this month, nice boat, far too much gadgetry for my taste but its still a narrowboat when all is said and done and its price is about £230,000, that's nearly a quarter of a million quid!  then add on the mooring, licence, boat safety thingy, insurance and a tank full if diesel and that's a good many of us bankrupt. Anyway, if the summer droughts carry on like this there won't be much boating going on anywhere (including Europe, sad to say)

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12 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Six months on and I think that new boat prices will become unaffordable to all but the very rich due to energy price increases.

This will lead to a large turndown in the industry with only a few survivors. Similar to about 20 years ago when boat builders were going bust at an alarming rate.

New boats have only ever really been available to those I would regard as wealthy - this includes those who sell houses to buy a boat. The rest of us buy used boats and fettle them.

Considering the state of the system and its likely future decline, there are probably enough boats hanging about hardly used to keep anyone actually interested in cruising occupied, as well as those just looking for something they can dump somewhere near a town and live on. 

I suspect a lot of these hardly used boats are going to come on the market over the next year or two as the cost of living spirals and people decide spending several grand a year for not much is no fun as well as being uneconomic. That should drop the price a bit.

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3 minutes ago, Bee said:

There is a 60` narrowboat featured in Waterways World this month, nice boat, far too much gadgetry for my taste but its still a narrowboat when all is said and done and its price is about £230,000, that's nearly a quarter of a million quid!  then add on the mooring, licence, boat safety thingy, insurance and a tank full if diesel and that's a good many of us bankrupt. Anyway, if the summer droughts carry on like this there won't be much boating going on anywhere (including Europe, sad to say)

Completely agree the do dah we are in is very deep unlike the water! I read after a brief time the Rhinebis dropping back to un navigable rapidly, I remember in my youth watching the big Rhine barges going up and down the Rhine, it's scary that the water has gone this fast!

Here it's not to bad at the moment, the Pride is still running with normal load but for how much longer?

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

New boats have only ever really been available to those I would regard as wealthy - this includes those who sell houses to buy a boat. The rest of us buy used boats and fettle them.

Considering the state of the system and its likely future decline, there are probably enough boats hanging about hardly used to keep anyone actually interested in cruising occupied, as well as those just looking for something they can dump somewhere near a town and live on. 

I suspect a lot of these hardly used boats are going to come on the market over the next year or two as the cost of living spirals and people decide spending several grand a year for not much is no fun as well as being uneconomic. That should drop the price a bit.

True Arthur but then you have to balance with the folk who can no longer afford to be in a house rushing onto the canals as an alternative buying anything that will float.

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1 minute ago, Arthur Marshall said:

New boats have only ever really been available to those I would regard as wealthy - this includes those who sell houses to buy a boat. The rest of us buy used boats and fettle them.

Considering the state of the system and its likely future decline, there are probably enough boats hanging about hardly used to keep anyone actually interested in cruising occupied, as well as those just looking for something they can dump somewhere near a town and live on. 

I suspect a lot of these hardly used boats are going to come on the market over the next year or two as the cost of living spirals and people decide spending several grand a year for not much is no fun as well as being uneconomic. That should drop the price a bit.

I've always been surprised by the number of, apparently, hardly used boats we pass. Many seem in fair condition and could be brought back into use with some TLC and a good clean (if the outside is a reflection of the general condition). Puzzles me that someone can sit on something worth tens of thousands and either not look after it or not use it.

 

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4 minutes ago, Bee said:

There is a 60` narrowboat featured in Waterways World this month, nice boat, far too much gadgetry for my taste but its still a narrowboat when all is said and done and its price is about £230,000, that's nearly a quarter of a million quid!  then add on the mooring, licence, boat safety thingy, insurance and a tank full if diesel and that's a good many of us bankrupt. Anyway, if the summer droughts carry on like this there won't be much boating going on anywhere (including Europe, sad to say)

I remember what I believe to be the first £100k narrow boat bought by a friend of mine back in 93/94, it was sold a couple of years ago for £70k 🤔

The sort of price that new boats are now  just seems madness since as you say there won't be anywhere to use them.

Glad I'm coming to the end of my boating time I certainly wouldn't want to be starting out now.

1 minute ago, MrsM said:

Puzzles me that someone can sit on something worth tens of thousands and either not look after it or not use it.

Loddon is looked after but circumstances mean that we have not been able to take it out since last year. Even if we could have taken our planned trip we wouldn't have got far as the Nene is empty at Islip😱

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1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

True Arthur but then you have to balance with the folk who can no longer afford to be in a house rushing onto the canals as an alternative buying anything that will float.

I think there is merit in both you and Arthur's posts.

I think prices of used boats could go either way.  Up, because as you say they could be in demand for cheaper housing.

Down, because many boaters like everyone else will see their living costs increasing and may decide that a boat is unaffordable,and combined with being unable to cruise very far (at least for now) may decide to sell up.

Used boat asking prices as far as I can see at present, seem to be holding up, but,will this last?

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3 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I think there is merit in both you and Arthur's posts.

I think prices of used boats could go either way.  Up, because as you say they could be in demand for cheaper housing.

Down, because many boaters like everyone else will see their living costs increasing and may decide that a boat is unaffordable,and combined with being unable to cruise very far (at least for now) may decide to sell up.

Used boat asking prices as far as I can see at present, seem to be holding up, but,will this last?

 

Like houses, it'll all come down to supply and demand and what people are willing to pay.

 

Every time the price of housing goes up *again* to an even more ludicrous level there are predictions that a house price crash is on the way because logically they can't *possibly* be affordable.

 

Then the next year the prices go up further... 😞

 

Predicting what will happen to boat prices is just as likely -- or unlikely -- to be accurate...

 

Unless Loddon's doom-laden predictions about many of the canals closing comes to pass, in spite of various reasons why this is unlikely -- and of course more people becoming desperate to find somewhere affordable to live could still push boat prices up, since the canals which might close are invariably not those where too many CMers want to live...

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About this time last year I expressed an opinion to someone looking for a new car that it may be prudent to wait a month or two as there would possibly be a surfeit of PCP lease cars becoming available to compete with new cars. Look what happened. Supply difficulties with computer chips decimated new build and 2nd hand cars are now £stupid.

 

 

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1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

Like houses, it'll all come down to supply and demand and what people are willing to pay.

 

Every time the price of housing goes up *again* to an even more ludicrous level there are predictions that a house price crash is on the way because logically they can't *possibly* be affordable.

 

Then the next year the prices go up further... 😞

 

Predicting what will happen to boat prices is just as likely -- or unlikely -- to be accurate...

 

Unless Loddon's doom-laden predictions about many of the canals closing comes to pass, in spite of various reasons why this is unlikely -- and of course more people becoming desperate to find somewhere affordable to live could still push boat prices up, since the canals which might close are invariably not those where too many CMers want to live...

House prices are a bit different as they are seen as an investment by landlords, and the prices are artificially maintained as a matter of policy by governments (of all colours) by relatively cheap finance and, recently, low interest rates. The supply is also artificial as it doesn't respond to purchase demand as such (which is for simple, town based and relatively small) but to the amount of profit that  can be generated for the builder.

There really isn't a lot of difference between a half million narrow boat and mine. They're all basically biscuit tins with a bed, couple of chairs, heating,  cooker, water and an engine. While there are more millionaires about than there were, they're outnumbered by the strugglers, and I'm unconvinced many millionaires want to holiday on a broken down and possibly polluted system when they could go somewhere nice instead.

The demand is going to be for boats broke people can live on. That's not going to keep prices high.

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19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

House prices are a bit different as they are seen as an investment by landlords, and the prices are artificially maintained as a matter of policy by governments (of all colours) by relatively cheap finance and, recently, low interest rates. The supply is also artificial as it doesn't respond to purchase demand as such (which is for simple, town based and relatively small) but to the amount of profit that  can be generated for the builder.

There really isn't a lot of difference between a half million narrow boat and mine. They're all basically biscuit tins with a bed, couple of chairs, heating,  cooker, water and an engine. While there are more millionaires about than there were, they're outnumbered by the strugglers, and I'm unconvinced many millionaires want to holiday on a broken down and possibly polluted system when they could go somewhere nice instead.

The demand is going to be for boats broke people can live on. That's not going to keep prices high.

 

But like houses, anything that keeps prices up anywhere in the price range tends to drag all the others up with it.

 

If there's increased demand at the bottom end for boats broke people can live on, that will keep the prices of cheap boats up -- or maybe even push them up due to demand exceeding supply, since these cheap boats don't appear from nowhere.

 

At the top end of the market for new boats the prices will stay high (or go up further) if construction costs stay high (or go up further). If demand falls then some boatbuilders will shut up, but the remaining ones can't charge less than it costs to build a boat and pay their workers, and if both materials and wages go up -- which seems likely -- then so will prices.

 

In the gap (between expensive new boats and cheap old ones) prices are also unlikely to fall if the prices at both the top and bottom ends of the market are going up.

 

However given the uncertainties and the current (and future) state of the canal system, viewing a boat as a sound monetary investment is probably unwise -- like it says in the small print, the value of your investment may well go down as well as up 😉

Edited by IanD
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This topic made me look at what the company that built my boat are now charging. I bought mine, a 60x12 widebeam, end of November 2021 (fixed the price to start the build) - delivered in March. I had about £20K of extras put on it (skylight, bow thruster, euro stern + other things). Came to £96K, no VAT. Sailaway lined + additions so I'm fitting the rest of it out myself. The same boat without all the extras is now £98K, so since last November it's gone up £20K. My boat was also was hit with the previous price rise of about £8K so in less than a year and a half, prices have increased for this same boat build of nearly £30K.

 

It's still cheaper than a house, it's much more of an adventure and the bills are far lower but that'a a crazy hike in the space of a year.

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14 minutes ago, Dobba said:

that'a a crazy hike in the space of a year.

Ostensibly, yes; but how does it compare with house prices over the same period? We aren't in the market, so I haven't been studying them. Have they gone up too?

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23 hours ago, Loddon said:

 

Loddon is looked after but circumstances mean that we have not been able to take it out since last year. Even if we could have taken our planned trip we wouldn't have got far as the Nene is empty at Islip😱

 

That's the difference. You're looking after your boat. I agree with MrsM - it is puzzling how many boats one passes that are unused and allowed to deteriorate when they're worth so much money. Why aren't they just sold? Perhaps if one lacks the time or motivation to maintain a boat then the same lack of motivation may come into effect to prevent one selling it?

21 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

 

Used boat asking prices as far as I can see at present, seem to be holding up, but,will this last?

 

I doubt it. I think most boats will start to depreciate again in a couple of years time. 

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1 hour ago, Dobba said:

This topic made me look at what the company that built my boat are now charging. I bought mine, a 60x12 widebeam, end of November 2021 (fixed the price to start the build) - delivered in March. I had about £20K of extras put on it (skylight, bow thruster, euro stern + other things). Came to £96K, no VAT. Sailaway lined + additions so I'm fitting the rest of it out myself. The same boat without all the extras is now £98K, so since last November it's gone up £20K.

 

Blimey, my 57 x 12 widebeam lined sailaway additions came to £55K including VAT in 2005, but I appreciate what you're saying that the rate of price increase has gone up much more steeply in the last year.

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On the subject of being a millionaire, I liked Richard Branson's answer when asked by a school kid "How do you get to be a millionaire?"

 

His witty answer was "First become a billionaire, then start an airline"... very droll! 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Premium bond day is Friday 2nd 🤔

If you were on the million pound train they would have contacted you by now🤭

I thought the draw was made on the first of the month . Like others, I have my fingers crossed for tomorrow 🙂 

 

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