Canal Boat Diaries

[FluffyVal]

We were on the Thames waiting for a place in the lock and I threw the rope to my hubby. He missed it and I couldn’t bring it in fast enough, now how the boat was in gear I can’t explain.

Anyway we worked on a ‘them that get it round the prop, sorts it out’

I remember it was a warm day then as well, with a show for the gongoozlers.

[Ianws]

In yesterday's episode in York he seemed to have left the boat on the mooring with 2 mooring lines coming from the centre of his roof as well as those from his bow and stern. He was later commenting on how the large river taxis rocked his boat as they passed. 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Ianws

[MtB]

9 minutes ago, Ianws said:

In yesterday's episode in York he seemed to have left the boat on the mooring with 2 mooring lines coming from the centre of his roof as well as those from his bow and stern. He was later commenting on how the large river taxis rocked his boat as they passed. 

 

 

I fixed a boiler for someone up in Lincolnshire on Wednesday. Once she realised I was a boater she was full of how wonderful this chap is and how brilliant this programme is and how I so totally MUST watch it. Ok, right....! 

[Arthur Marshall]

16 hours ago, Ianws said:

In yesterday's episode in York he seemed to have left the boat on the mooring with 2 mooring lines coming from the centre of his roof as well as those from his bow and stern. He was later commenting on how the large river taxis rocked his boat as they passed. 

 

He's done that before - I noticed it on the second episode, wherever that was. I though it was a bit odd.

[haggis]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

He's done that before - I noticed it on the second episode, wherever that was. I though it was a bit odd.

Mooring with the centre rope as well as bow and stern ropes seems to be the "in thing" . We have certainly noticed a lot more of it in the last year or so. I don't know if folks think it gives them more protection from moving when boats pass but it doesn't, it just makes the boat roll.  I don't know if folk get confused with mooring with springs or not but it is certainly a lot more prevalent than it used to be 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, haggis said:

Mooring with the centre rope as well as bow and stern ropes seems to be the "in thing" . We have certainly noticed a lot more of it in the last year or so. I don't know if folks think it gives them more protection from moving when boats pass but it doesn't, it just makes the boat roll.  I don't know if folk get confused with mooring with springs or not but it is certainly a lot more prevalent than it used to be 

 

 

 

Maybe they pick these bad habits from all of the Internet / You-Tube experts that have sprung up in the last few years.

 

It is amazing the impact that some of these you-tubers have on everyday life - I have recently seen a couple of TV adverts where in the bottom corner of the screen it says "Ms Flowery Querty - YouTube Influencer" or "Mr Willy Querts - YouTube Influencer"

 

Obviously hoping that some of their 'million' followers will buy this wonderful face-cream (or whatever)

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

Mooring with the centre rope as well as bow and stern ropes seems to be the "in thing" . We have certainly noticed a lot more of it in the last year or so. I don't know if folks think it gives them more protection from moving when boats pass but it doesn't, it just makes the boat roll.  I don't know if folk get confused with mooring with springs or not but it is certainly a lot more prevalent than it used to be 

 

I spoke to a hirer about it and they said the company told them to so it

[sueb]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I spoke to a hirer about it and they said the company told them to so it

Viking hire boats were all tied up using centre lines at their hire base.

 

[IanD]

18 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I spoke to a hirer about it and they said the company told them to so it

Maybe because if boaters don't know how to use mooring spikes properly -- common with liveaboards not just hirers, from what I've seen -- they're likely to get pulled out by a passing boat, leaving the boat slewed right across the canal attached at only one end -- which seems increasingly common. A centre line probably won't pull out at the same time which will at least stop this happening.

 

Or the people doing outgoing training at the hire company don't know what they're doing, also not unheard of... 😉

[Guest]

It's OK to use a centre line as an extra security against a boat becoming untied and drifting away.

 

The problem is people tie it too tight and it causes the boat to tilt (sometimes alarmingly when a commercial passes on the big northern waterways).

 

Just tie it loosely and normally it will not cause an issue.

[Ianws]

I just watched episode 2.1. He seemed to do it again when mooring with rings, which shouldn't give way. Also, when he was using mooring pins he knocked them in perpendicular rather than at an angle. From camping I know this makes it much easier for your pins to be pulled out. 

 

Finally, a serious question, because I dont know. If the rest of the lines did fail and the centre line to the roof was all that was holding it, how likely is a fatal tilt to occur? 

[Cheese]

27 minutes ago, Ianws said:

... Also, when he was using mooring pins he knocked them in perpendicular rather than at an angle. From camping I know this makes it much easier for your pins to be pulled out. ...

I was taught that lines should be perpendicular to pegs/pins. For mooring pins that means the pin angle depends on bank height: with a high bank, so close to horizontal line, the pin could/should be more vertical?

[Alan de Enfield]

34 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I was taught that lines should be perpendicular to pegs/pins. For mooring pins that means the pin angle depends on bank height: with a high bank, so close to horizontal line, the pin could/should be more vertical?

 

 

That is not correct - 'perpendicular to' means at 90 degrees to.

 

If you are below a high bank so your lines are actually coming 'down hill' having a mooring pin perpendicular to the line would mean that it is actually sloping towards you and the line could slide off the top of the pin, or once reaching a critical angle, would just pull the pin out of the ground.

 

A mooring pin should be at an angle at least 30 degrees (45 degrees is better) away from the boat so the mooring line is pulling into the angle between the ground and the pin. The lower the boat is in relatation to the pin the more effort it will take to move it.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Ianws]

I'm sure he's not the first but I remember a post from @IanD about using 2  pegs at angles through each other which, apart from mooring in total slop,  makes it very hard for them to be removed by passing boats. And also difficult for passing miscreants, if knots are back on the boat. 

I.e. they can't easily pull your pin out. 

[PD1964]

 I like Robbie’s programmes as it shows it like it is in most respects for the single handed boater. Yes he gets things wrong, but he travels and shows his cock-ups, unlike some Vloggers who move short distances with a crew and spend more time editing and worrying about getting the music right then they did actually doing the trip. Yes I know he has a BBC film team with him.

[Arthur Marshall]

5 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 I like Robbie’s programmes as it shows it like it is in most respects for the single handed boater. Yes he gets things wrong, but he travels and shows his cock-ups, unlike some Vloggers who move short distances with a crew and spend more time editing and worrying about getting the music right then they did actually doing the trip. Yes I know he has a BBC film team with him.

Judging by the rare distance shots, I suspect he does most of the journey and meets up with a film crew every now and then. I assume a lot of the overhead shots are via a drone, flown by himself - if these are also in his regular vlog that would indicate it.

If I recall right, Tim & Pru used doubles for a lot of their long distance shots, at least in the later programmes when mostly they were on hire boats. It's entertainment, only semi-documentary. He's more narrative, though this series seems to be slipping a bit more into off-canal stuff than before.

[frangar]

As a grumpy curmudgeon with vloggers and particularly canal based ones I find his programmes almost watchable…there are only about half a dozen times each episode where I find myself yelling at the TV…

[ditchcrawler]

10 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 I like Robbie’s programmes as it shows it like it is in most respects for the single handed boater. Yes he gets things wrong, but he travels and shows his cock-ups, unlike some Vloggers who move short distances with a crew and spend more time editing and worrying about getting the music right then they did actually doing the trip. Yes I know he has a BBC film team with him.

I don't think he has much of a team, most of it he shoots himself. There is info about it but I don't have time at the moment to look it up.

[IanD]

11 hours ago, Ianws said:

I'm sure he's not the first but I remember a post from @IanD about using 2  pegs at angles through each other which, apart from mooring in total slop,  makes it very hard for them to be removed by passing boats. And also difficult for passing miscreants, if knots are back on the boat. 

I.e. they can't easily pull your pin out. 

 

In soft ground (especially if you can't use springs), the best way to use (four!) mooring spikes -- preferably with loops! -- is:

 

-- if possible, position them so the rope from the boat stud is at least 45 degrees to the bank (ahead of bow stud, behind stern dolly)

-- put the first spike in at right angles to the canal edge tilting away from it (as Alan described), with the loop facing away from the boat

-- put the second spike in through the loop of the first one, parallel to the canal edge, tilted away from the boat midpoint with loop facing away (up/downstream)

-- put the rope through *both* loops (with these behind the spikes, not in front) and tie back on the boat.

 

Looked at from above, the two spikes form an "arrowhead" pointing away from the boat at 45 degrees, with the rope forming the "shaft" of the arrow towards the boat -- a bit like a dug-in anchor.

 

Because they're both tilted away from the boat, they're difficult to pull out even under a lot of force -- normally in soft ground a spike tilts over and then pulls out, but here the other one helps to stop this.

 

Having the loops facing away from the boat means the rope pulls on the (strong) spike, not the (weak) loop which can break the weld and detach it. Having the rope through both loops also makes it very difficult for vandals to pull either pin out, if they try and pull one spike out the other one stops it.

 

The other key point is to get the ropes angled away from the boat by at least 45 degrees, maybe even a bit more (further away from boat). People often make the mistake of having the ropes closer to a right angle (straighter from boat to bank), but when a passing boat moves your boat backwards and forwards this leads to big tensions in the ropes (multiplied by 1/cos theta if you want to be picky...) and helps pull the spikes out.

 

If there isn't enough space to run the ropes outwards away from the boat, they can also be run inwards but this is often difficult because the hull/cabin gets in the way and you fall over the ropes.

 

Using springs is also good but single spikes are less resistant to pulling out, either in soft ground or by vandals. Of course if you have 8 spikes then double-spiked with springs is the bees knees... 🙂

 

I've never had spikes pull out when moored like this, even in soft ground. See drawing below...

 

Edited March 22, 2022 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

 

In soft ground (especially if you can't use springs), the best way to use (four!) mooring spikes -- preferably with loops! -- is:

 

-- if possible, position them so the rope from the boat stud is at least 45 degrees to the bank (ahead of bow stud, behind stern dolly)

-- put the first spike in at right angles to the canal edge tilting away from it (as Alan described), with the loop facing away from the boat

-- put the second spike in through the loop of the first one, parallel to the canal edge, tilted away from the boat midpoint with loop facing away (up/downstream)

-- put the rope through *both* loops (with these behind the spikes, not in front) and tie back on the boat.

 

Looked at from above, the two spikes form an "arrowhead" pointing away from the boat at 45 degrees, with the rope forming the "shaft" of the arrow towards the boat -- a bit like a dug-in anchor.

 

Because they're both tilted away from the boat, they're difficult to pull out even under a lot of force -- normally in soft ground a spike tilts over and then pulls out, but here the other one helps to stop this.

 

Having the loops facing away from the boat means the rope pulls on the (strong) spike, not the (weak) loop which can break the weld and detach it. Having the rope through both loops also makes it very difficult for vandals to pull either pin out, if they try and pull one spike out the other one stops it.

 

The other key point is to get the ropes angled away from the boat by at least 45 degrees, maybe even a bit more (further away from boat). People often make the mistake of having the ropes closer to a right angle (straighter from boat to bank), but when a passing boat moves your boat backwards and forwards this leads to big tensions in the ropes (multiplied by 1/cos theta if you want to be picky...) and helps pull the spikes out.

 

If there isn't enough space to run the ropes outwards away from the boat, they can also be run inwards but this is often difficult because the hull/cabin gets in the way and you fall over the ropes.

 

Using springs is also good but single spikes are less resistant to pulling out, either in soft ground or by vandals. Of course if you have 8 spikes then double-spiked with springs is the bees knees... 🙂

 

I've never had spikes pull out when moored like this, even in soft ground. See drawing below...

 

 

 

"Best" is to combine 2 & 3 so you have short springs as well 

[IanD]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

"Best" is to combine 2 & 3 so you have short springs as well 

 

Which is what I said, so long as you have enough (8?) mooring spikes -- which many (most?) boats don't... 😉

 

If you only have 4 and especially if the ground is soft, I think it's better to put them in (paired "arrowheads") as I showed rather than 4 individual spikes (2 for bow/stern ropes, 2 for springs) -- single spikes are more prone to pulling out (or being pulled out...) than paired ones.

[Mike Todd]

On 22/03/2022 at 05:15, Arthur Marshall said:

Judging by the rare distance shots, I suspect he does most of the journey and meets up with a film crew every now and then. I assume a lot of the overhead shots are via a drone, flown by himself - if these are also in his regular vlog that would indicate it.

If I recall right, Tim & Pru used doubles for a lot of their long distance shots, at least in the later programmes when mostly they were on hire boats. It's entertainment, only semi-documentary. He's more narrative, though this series seems to be slipping a bit more into off-canal stuff than before.

I think I spotted on the closing credits the name of the professional drone operator.

 

Certainly some of the overhead shots would be very time consuming to set up sing handed - eg leaving or entering a tunnel. There are also time when his piece-to-camera-whilst-walking as if it were a selfie is remarkably stable.

[Stilllearning]

22 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I think I spotted on the closing credits the name of the professional drone operator.

 

Certainly some of the overhead shots would be very time consuming to set up sing handed - eg leaving or entering a tunnel. There are also time when his piece-to-camera-whilst-walking as if it were a selfie is remarkably stable.

I am lead to believe that the hand held camera works is mainly a question of practice.

[PCSB]

34 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I think I spotted on the closing credits the name of the professional drone operator.

 

Certainly some of the overhead shots would be very time consuming to set up sing handed - eg leaving or entering a tunnel. There are also time when his piece-to-camera-whilst-walking as if it were a selfie is remarkably stable.

 

10 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

I am lead to believe that the hand held camera works is mainly a question of practice.

I don't know what kit he uses, but a steadicam or gimbal would give very stable results. There are small ones for vlogging so suspect he uses one of these.

[ditchcrawler]

On 22/03/2022 at 10:08, ditchcrawler said:

I don't think he has much of a team, most of it he shoots himself. There is info about it but I don't have time at the moment to look it up.

A bit of info here 

 

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

A bit of info here