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AliceP

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Hi,

We're soon to be doing the Stourport ring anticlockwise but I know that plans may have to change if the River Severn is not passable. Does anyone know how likely that is? Is it down to prior heavy rainfall? Not sure how likely it is that our plans may need to change so just wondering if I need to come up with a back up plan!

Thanks

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14 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Without intending to be funny how do you make a plan b for a ring that involves a river (or two)? 

Plan B is to turn round and go back the way you came (unless you can wait for the flood to subside). So if you are doing the Stourport Ring in a week in a hire boat, then best to get the river section done earlier in the week so if it does flood you don't find yourself without enough time to get the boat back to base. Which means which way you go round the loop may depend on where you are starting from.

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8 hours ago, George and Dragon said:

Without intending to be funny how do you make a plan b for a ring that involves a river (or two)? 

A different route that doesn't involve the river if it is in flood when they start their holiday or being aware at which point they need to turn back if they aren't going to be able to complete the ring.  For example if they start at Worcester and head up the canal first I tending to use the last full day of the holiday to come down the river from Stourport to get the boat back then it is too late to arrive in Stourport and find the Severn in flood.

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The catchment for the Severn starts back in Wales and water levels at Worcester are reasonably predictable (by experts with the right model!) and you should have a pretty good idea of what to expect before you set off on a week's cruise although if it buckets down in Wales just as you start and you end at Worcester then you may have a problem. 

 

Comin upstream to Stourport has an unexpected catch for the unwary (how do I know?). You are likely to have to moor temporarily, or even overnight, on the pontoon below the narrow lock. At this point it looks as if the stream will push you into the pontoon but actually it can (and did to me!) push the boat away and quite quickly. Beware if casting off single handed as, loosing the bow rope, you will find the bow going out as you get back to the stern! Heart stopped accelerating after a few minutes once in the lock . . .

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15 hours ago, AliceP said:

Hi,

We're soon to be doing the Stourport ring anticlockwise but I know that plans may have to change if the River Severn is not passable. Does anyone know how likely that is? Is it down to prior heavy rainfall? Not sure how likely it is that our plans may need to change so just wondering if I need to come up with a back up plan!

Thanks

Where are you starting from and are you running to a deadline. If the river is near ether end of the trip could you do it first?

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2 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

The catchment for the Severn starts back in Wales and water levels at Worcester are reasonably predictable (by experts with the right model!) and you should have a pretty good idea of what to expect before you set off on a week's cruise although if it buckets down in Wales just as you start and you end at Worcester then you may have a problem. 


I live very near the source of the Severn and the general consensus from the experts is that a flood here takes between 2 and 3 days to reach Shrewsbury, and between 3 and 4 days to reach Worcester. So if it has been raining heavily here I would not go onto the river at Stourport or below 3 days after seeing high levels here.

And this year they recorded the highest levels since the 60's here, at over 3 metres above norm.

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On 14/03/2022 at 10:26, Loddon said:

When leaving a mooring facing upstream I would always release the stern rope first!

😱

I suggested that general principle to someone who had just come within a whisker of a disaster. He then asked me which end of his boat was the downstream end.

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A few years ago when the Thames went into flood around June/July time we were moored on Osney Island moorings nice and safe when a wide beam came downstream and put his bow line out first. The result was that his stern spun across the cut and jammed against the house wall opposite with is bow hard against the bank and his bow line board tight. The householder opened the window and started to shout the odds and try to push the stern out with a boom. In the end I think we ha dabout 30 chaps off boats and from the pub pulling on ropes to get the stern back alongside.

 

We always told our hirers  ALWAYS come into moor facing upstream and bow line off first and back on last.  When that is really not possible as at Osney then, as said, always upstream line off first and on last. I fear far too many narrowboaters have no idea how to handle the boat on rivers for maximum control and safety.

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1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

We always told our hirers  ALWAYS come into moor facing upstream and bow line off first and back on last.  When that is really not possible as at Osney then, as said, always upstream line off first and on last. I fear far too many narrowboaters have no idea how to handle the boat on rivers for maximum control and safety.

 

 

And when you try and help them you just get "I'm not going to try turning around, the waters going too fast".

They just don't realise that trying to moor up going downstream, not only are they doing the 2, or 3 mph thru the water, but added to the 4 or 5mph the water is doing wizzing past the mooring. Hitting the mooring or the boat in front at 6 or 7mph results in quite a bang.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

And when you try and help them you just get "I'm not going to try turning around, the waters going too fast".

They just don't realise that trying to moor up going downstream, not only are they doing the 2, or 3 mph thru the water, but added to the 4 or 5mph the water is doing wizzing past the mooring. Hitting the mooring or the boat in front at 6 or 7mph results in quite a bang.

 

and also they have no idea of how to spot slack water to stick the bow into so the flow spins the boat round so it ends up pointing the right way and in slacker water. had the Kings lock keeper waving and shouting when I went down the lock to turn round, after testing the current and knowing what Osney is like. All I did was to turn the bow into the down steam layby and reverse so the back was in the weir flow. The boat turned in its own length, if I had gone downstream a  bit It would have been harder to find slack water and we would have gone sideways down stream for a long way.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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Alice, please don't get scared by my tales. They relate to very high flows and actual or near flood conditions. Unless the weather deteriorates massively before you set out you will have at least a day to get off the river if we get storms in its catchment area. there are a number of websites that let you view, more or less in real time, what the river levels are doing at a variety of gauging stations.

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I shared a lock on the Wey when it was running rather fast.  Intending to moor downstream after a mile or so, and not needing the extra distraction of a boat on my tail, I asked the other steerer who assured me he was not stopping before the next lock.  So I let him out first - and waited several minutes so as not to have any chance of catching him, even if we needed to motor to have some steering.

 

Unfortunately (and unknown to me), he went just out of sight - saw a nice mooring spot, put the crew ashore with the bow rope and promptly got jammed broadside across the river in time for my arrival.

 

Frankly, I had no good ideas when I saw him; the best option would have been for him to let-go and shift down the river, possibly aided by a blow from my boat on his bow.  But he was, of course, trying to bring the boat alongside and it would have taken too long to persuade him otherwise.  By good fortune (and it was a surprise to me), my boat pulled-up quite nicely with some heavy reverse - and came into the bank where we were able to get a stern rope ashore before an uncontemplated change of clothes.  He apologized for delaying us - but I don't think he had any idea as to how close it had been.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

A few years ago when the Thames went into flood around June/July time we were moored on Osney Island moorings nice and safe when a wide beam came downstream and put his bow line out first. The result was that his stern spun across the cut and jammed against the house wall opposite with is bow hard against the bank and his bow line board tight. The householder opened the window and started to shout the odds and try to push the stern out with a boom. In the end I think we ha dabout 30 chaps off boats and from the pub pulling on ropes to get the stern back alongside.

 

We always told our hirers  ALWAYS come into moor facing upstream and bow line off first and back on last.  When that is really not possible as at Osney then, as said, always upstream line off first and on last. I fear far too many narrowboaters have no idea how to handle the boat on rivers for maximum control and safety.

As I think you have said, there really is no ALWAYS - situations vary and general rules have to be adapted to fit. That said, knowing the general rule is always a good start. And 'reading' the water is also important.

 

Turning off a river into a lock entrance is often quite tricky - eg Limehouse, Stockwith, Torksey, Gloucester to name just four where the unobvious happens.

 

In the case I cited, I thought I had read the water, added to our overnight  experience moored a boat length down the pontoon. Moving up to the lock landing changed the situation into one where water on the surface flowed one way and water lower down flowed another way.

 

I shared what was a learning experience in the hope that others would also learn (I am still doing so after 55 years!)

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If there is a reasonable amount of fresh on the Severn when coming out of Diglis lock from the canal its best to reverse out onto the river as you wont get round because of the flow and coukd end up on the weir :(

 

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14 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If there is a reasonable amount of fresh on the Severn when coming out of Diglis lock from the canal its best to reverse out onto the river as you wont get round because of the flow and coukd end up on the weir :(

 

 

Presumably it helps to reverse into the lock.

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21 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If there is a reasonable amount of fresh on the Severn when coming out of Diglis lock from the canal its best to reverse out onto the river as you wont get round because of the flow and coukd end up on the weir :(

 

Or go left and turn in the lock cut.

 

I watched a boat come off the canal and try turning towards the weir to then head upstream, as they were being drawn sideways I thought they were going to end up pinned to the dolphins but after what seemed like an age they slowly got round.

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23 minutes ago, Loddon said:

If there is a reasonable amount of fresh on the Severn when coming out of Diglis lock from the canal its best to reverse out onto the river as you wont get round because of the flow and coukd end up on the weir :(

 


Or you go down towards the Oil Dock and turn there.

 

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Presumably it helps to reverse into the lock.


Atleast can "just" wind in the pool between the two locks.

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15 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Presumably it helps to reverse into the lock.

Yes ;)

 

We went out with just under 2' of fresh on, the lock keeper (yes it was a while ago) advised us to go down backwards as we were going upstream he said that if it was over 2' he couldnt let us out.

Many hours later when we arrived at Stourport the lockie there went ballistic as it had come up a lot and he said we shoudn't have been let onto the river.

 

 

16 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

Atleast can "just" wind in the pool between the two locks.

We easily winded between the locks as we were only 33ft.

With the amount of fresh that day I wouldnt fancy going down past the weir to wind.

 

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3 hours ago, Loddon said:

If there is a reasonable amount of fresh on the Severn when coming out of Diglis lock from the canal its best to reverse out onto the river as you wont get round because of the flow and coukd end up on the weir :(

 

I don’t like the idea of coming out onto a fast flowing river backwards!  The CRT signs tell you to go downstream and turn in front of the river lock, same if you are coming down the river and off onto the canal.  I can certainly agree that trying to turn upstream against a strong flow is not a good idea, I saw a hire boat do that and even when the river was on green he took a disconcertingly long time to get round and upstream.

 

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