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Beta Marine control panel problem


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Apologies if this has been covered but I couldn't find my exact problem in search.

I have a Beta 38 with the standard control panel. Up until yesterday not had this issue and all was working normally on start up last week.

The issue is no buzzer noise when ignition switch on HEAT (good I hear some say 🤣) and engine battery light not illuminated (all others are lit). There is a faint ticking noise from the control panel. Engine starts and runs fine all red light go out tacho operates and voltmeter shows both alternators charging. When press STOP all lights including the starter battery illuminate and buzzer sounds. Same thing happened again today. Starter and domestic batteries are fully charged. Engine battery alternator was replaced (new) last season. I will replace both battery master cutoff switches as they are old but both pass continuity test.

There was some corrosion on one of the pins in the 2 pin sub loom connector block which I've cleaned. I can't access the 13 way loom multiconnector because I can't shift the enclosing rubber boot

Any suggestions much appreciated.

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My best bet without looking would be the damned chocolate block connector that you are having trouble accessing. It certainly sounds like some sort of poor connection somewhere.

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Thanks for the rapid replies - much appreciated.

I had a good look at the rubber boot earlier and unless there is a trick I'm missing (of course there is) my only way of getting it off without risk to the loom wires is to cut it with a Stanley knife and then tape back up when I've taken the multconnector apart.

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15 minutes ago, WYVERN said:

Thanks for the rapid replies - much appreciated.

I had a good look at the rubber boot earlier and unless there is a trick I'm missing (of course there is) my only way of getting it off without risk to the loom wires is to cut it with a Stanley knife and then tape back up when I've taken the multconnector apart.

I haven't actually undone ours, but a good principle to start with is "how was it assembled?". Clearly the boot wasn't "grown" on the connector, so there must be a way of assembling it to be like it is now, and therefore there must be a way of disassembling it by reversing the process!

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Just now, Tony Brooks said:

I have seen some that look as if the may have been heat shrunk on. I doubt they had but would probably need strong fingers to roll the boot back.

Oh yes I suppose that is a fair point. In which case, after cutting open, removing the two halves of heat shrink and cleaning up/repairing the contacts, more heatshrink of the right diameter can be put over one half of the connector, when when pushed together the heatshrink can be slid over the whole thing and heatshrunk.

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Just now, nicknorman said:

I haven't actually undone ours, but a good principle to start with is "how was it assembled?". Clearly the boot wasn't "grown" on the connector, so there must be a way of assembling it to be like it is now, and therefore there must be a way of disassembling it by reversing the process!

Absolutely agree. I'll take another look tomorrow but it looks to me like the outer boot should slide off to the right (looking to the stern) but the wires going to the 2 pin sub-loom connector and the connector itself will stop the "tail" of the boot sliding far enough to expose the multiconnector.

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I have seen some that look as if the may have been heat shrunk on. I doubt they had but would probably need strong fingers to roll the boot back.

Stronger fingers than mine methinks 🤔

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Just one other point. When you do get the multi plug apart, and after you have cleaned it etc etc. When you put it back together, put a thin cable tie round it ina couple of places so it stays well contacted and doesnt loosen in use.

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1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

Just one other point. When you do get the multi plug apart, and after you have cleaned it etc etc. When you put it back together, put a thin cable tie round it ina couple of places so it stays well contacted and doesnt loosen in use.

Thanks - excellent suggestion.

I've ordered some Contralube 770 which I saw recommended here to use on the multiconnector. Unless I have a Damascene moment in the engine bay tomorrow I think I will end up taking a scalpel to the outer boot. I have some Aquasure which I can use to get a watertight repair when i put it back.

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Just now, TheBiscuits said:

Warm the boot first, either with a hairdryer or simply by running the engine.  Hot water works too but makes a mess.

 

When it's warmer it gets softer so is easier to wiggle free.

Now that's great advice - thanks

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26 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Just one other point. When you do get the multi plug apart, and after you have cleaned it etc etc. When you put it back together, put a thin cable tie round it ina couple of places so it stays well contacted and doesnt loosen in use.

There may be a cable tie under the cover already, which would stop it coming apart.

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4 minutes ago, AndrewIC said:

There may be a cable tie under the cover already, which would stop it coming apart.

Possibly, but it's the thick and tight rubber boot that encloses the multiconnector that is proving very difficult to remove

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The multiplugs can be a pain - whic I solved (no problems since) is to peel the rubber cover back  GENTLY as you would with a bananana (or something else too delicate to mention), to reveal whta is a loose type of can connector. Clean / replace whatever and re assemble the cable Lucar connectors one by one, checking each cable pair as you go.

Then roll / slide the female part up the cable first, followed by the male connectors.

That way you remove the risk of disconnecting one or more pairs of cable without realising it!

(Idid that when replacing a B50 engine some 10 years ago and (don't tempt) have nad no problem since.....

 

We/ you have to realise that any   work on NB electrics will always be a compromise because in order to make any NB system economical, 'you' have to adapt components originally made for other purposes.

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18 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

The multiplugs can be a pain - whic I solved (no problems since) is to peel the rubber cover back  GENTLY as you would with a bananana (or something else too delicate to mention), to reveal whta is a loose type of can connector. Clean / replace whatever and re assemble the cable Lucar connectors one by one, checking each cable pair as you go.

Then roll / slide the female part up the cable first, followed by the male connectors.

That way you remove the risk of disconnecting one or more pairs of cable without realising it!

(Idid that when replacing a B50 engine some 10 years ago and (don't tempt) have nad no problem since.....

 

We/ you have to realise that any   work on NB electrics will always be a compromise because in order to make any NB system economical, 'you' have to adapt components originally made for other purposes.

Many thanks for this - makes perfect sense to me - I have similar electrics  "stories" and workarounds with my 2001 Jag XKR

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The individual 1/4" connectors should lock in to the plastic block with one, or more metal spring tabs on the connector block. All the 1/4" connectors should then make simultaneously when the two blocks are pushed together. If they are not locked in, it is possible the tabs are broken.

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1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The individual 1/4" connectors should lock in to the plastic block with one, or more metal spring tabs on the connector block. All the 1/4" connectors should then make simultaneously when the two blocks are pushed together. If they are not locked in, it is possible the tabs are broken.

Thanks for that—and thanks for everyone's advice—much appreciated. It will be a few days b4 I can get back to the problem but will report back with any findings/progress

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58 minutes ago, WYVERN said:

Question:

Are the cable pairs inside the connector "loose' or do they lock together similar to car Lucas type connectors?

 

Most "cable connectors" these days usually consist of male & female conducting parts housed in complimentary male & female plastic housings, the housings themselves are usually keyed to prevent mis-connection.   

There are many manufactures of such components and each manufacturer will have a range of similar connectors with different configurations in terms of type of:-

  • conductor terminals - (Bullet, Spade, Pin etc.);
  • Receptacle Configuration - (round / square/ rectangle/ number of electrical connections);
  • Housing material - differing materials for different environment's,
  • Plus whether the end user/installer wants to meet a particular Ingress Rating (IP) standard - e.g. made to measure rubber boots; ?
  • not to mention physical size - which is usually determined primary by current and to a lesser extent by the wire size being used, (which can have an impact on the terminal wire capacity and hence - size of component.)

Many assemblers of control panels will probably try to standardize their components, e.g. BETA, but if they encounter supply problems they are entitled to use a similar product, so it would be wise not to make assumptions as to the manufacturer or type.  Just because the identical boat next door has a particular connector, it does not always follow that your boat has the same.

 

From this you will no doubt see it is difficult to determine what connector you are having problems with. 

 

A picture of the offending connector would help in identifying both the type & manufacturer of the connector in question. 

 

Having said all that, there is no guarantee that we could identify it with 100% accuracy unless the manufacture's logo and product ID are stamped on the connector body.  - But we can but try! :P  

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6 minutes ago, Rincewind said:

 

Most "cable connectors" these days usually consist of male & female conducting parts housed in complimentary male & female plastic housings, the housings themselves are usually keyed to prevent mis-connection.   

There are many manufactures of such components and each manufacturer will have a range of similar connectors with different configurations in terms of type of:-

  • conductor terminals - (Bullet, Spade, Pin etc.);
  • Receptacle Configuration - (round / square/ rectangle/ number of electrical connections);
  • Housing material - differing materials for different environment's,
  • Plus whether the end user/installer wants to meet a particular Ingress Rating (IP) standard - e.g. made to measure rubber boots; ?
  • not to mention physical size - which is usually determined primary by current and to a lesser extent by the wire size being used, (which can have an impact on the terminal wire capacity and hence - size of component.)

Many assemblers of control panels will probably try to standardize their components, e.g. BETA, but if they encounter supply problems they are entitled to use a similar product, so it would be wise not to make assumptions as to the manufacturer or type.  Just because the identical boat next door has a particular connector, it does not always follow that your boat has the same.

 

From this you will no doubt see it is difficult to determine what connector you are having problems with. 

 

A picture of the offending connector would help in identifying both the type & manufacturer of the connector in question. 

 

Having said all that, there is no guarantee that we could identify it with 100% accuracy unless the manufacture's logo and product ID are stamped on the connector body.  - But we can but try! :P  

Understood - I probably didn't make myself clear in earlier posts - my bad. I'm not looking to identify this particular connector with a view to sourcing a replacement etc it's just that I was thrown a bit by a suggestion that the male/female terminals within the connector block might be loose i.e not engaged in the plastic holes by spring clips which would have meant being extra extra careful when removing the rubber boot lest i pull them out with dire consequences for realigning correctly but that seems unlikely but we shall see I guess.

As I opined in an earlier post I have a wealth of experience (nightmares) with the electrics (harness/wires/modules etc etc) on my 2001 Jag XKR (and others) with a result that I am a fully paid up member of the "if it aint broke don't fix it" club 🥴

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4 minutes ago, WYVERN said:

Understood - I probably didn't make myself clear in earlier posts - my bad. I'm not looking to identify this particular connector with a view to sourcing a replacement etc it's just that I was thrown a bit by a suggestion that the male/female terminals within the connector block might be loose i.e not engaged in the plastic holes by spring clips which would have meant being extra extra careful when removing the rubber boot lest i pull them out with dire consequences for realigning correctly but that seems unlikely but we shall see I guess.

As I opined in an earlier post I have a wealth of experience (nightmares) with the electrics (harness/wires/modules etc etc) on my 2001 Jag XKR (and others) with a result that I am a fully paid up member of the "if it aint broke don't fix it" club 🥴

 

:lol::lol::lol: "if it aint broke don't fix it"

 

Could not agree more!

Sorry for the long post, thought you may be unfamiliar with connectors!

Spring clips were used on some old connectors, but these days they are usually an interference fit, with reliance on the the natural spring (reluctance) in the female part making contact with the male part.

A bit like real life really! ;)

 

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8 hours ago, AndrewIC said:

The Beta connectors are usually like this, with standard 6.3mm uninsulated blades. The housings themselves don’t lock together.

https://www.durite.co.uk/itm/63mm-Housing-Connectors/630mm-Multiple-Connector-Female-Receptacle-Housing-11-Way/001118

Thanks for this 

8 hours ago, Rincewind said:

 

:lol::lol::lol: "if it aint broke don't fix it"

 

Could not agree more!

Sorry for the long post, thought you may be unfamiliar with connectors!

Spring clips were used on some old connectors, but these days they are usually an interference fit, with reliance on the the natural spring (reluctance) in the female part making contact with the male part.

A bit like real life really! ;)

 

De Nada

🤣

 

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As an aside, I have found on old cars (pre lots of electronics), that when a number of lights etc start working strangely it’s a bad earth, possibly in the multiple connector.  You could try running a temp wire from a good earth (such as the battery negative, or engine block, and then finding a negative wire on your control panel to see if that fixes it.  If it does it will help to narrow the search for the dodgy connection, which may not be in the multi connector.

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