South Pennine Ring - clockwise

[IanD]

52 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Then you'll have to use the large opening on your windlass for the small spindles on the lock paddles. You won't be able to open hydraulic paddle gear at all. You will need a telegraph pole as a hand spike on the C&H stretch of the ring.

 

Sorry, relativity doesn't work like that, the shrink is only in the direction the boat is going in 😉

 

Mind you, to get a 72' boat through the Salterhebble locks (60' max) it would have to be travelling at 120,000km/s, which wouldn't give much time to open/close the gates and fill/empty the lock...

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

17 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

Sorry, relativity doesn't work like that, the shrink is only in the direction the boat is going in 😉

 

Mind you, to get a 72' boat through the Salterhebble locks (60' max) it would have to be travelling at 120,000km/s, which wouldn't give much time to open/close the gates and fill/empty the lock...

 

 

 

Canalplan is able to cope with cruising at 40% of light speed. With lock times set to zero, it reckons for the Pennine Ring, anticlockwise:

Quote

Summary of trip

This is a trip of 560 miles, 7¼ furlongs and 457 locks from Wigan Junction to Wigan Junction.

This will take < 1 minute.

The question is, in what frame of reference is that less than one minute calculated?

Edited March 15, 2022 by Jen-in-Wellies

[IanD]

9 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

Canalplan is able to cope with cruising at 40% of light speed. With lock times set to zero, it reckons for the Pennine Ring, anticlockwise:

The question is, in what frame of reference is that less than one minute calculated?

561miles (900km) at 120000km/s would take 7.5ms according to a canalside observer, but only 6.3ms according to the boater.

Edited March 15, 2022 by IanD

[Jen-in-Wellies]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

561miles (900km) at 120000km/s would take 7.5ms according to a canalside observer, but only 6.3ms according to the boater.

Another advantage of boating so fast is that the sound of people yelling at you to slow down after you have rocked their boats will be doppler shifted to frequencies below the audible threshold of human ears, so you can legitimately say you didn't hear them.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Another advantage of boating so fast is that the sound of people yelling at you to slow down after you have rocked their boats will be doppler shifted to frequencies below the audible threshold of human ears, so you can legitimately say you didn't hear them.

 

Never mind the sound, the observer would see you leave on a red boat and return on a blue one ...

[IanD]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Never mind the sound, the observer would see you leave on a red boat and return on a blue one ...

Only if your boat was painted white...

 

Mind you, if you carried on and on round the Pennine ring passing them every 7.5ms they wouldn't really see you, you'd be passing them 130 times a second, blink and they'd miss you.

 

As an extra plus point, the hypersonic shock waves of a narrowboat passing at Mach 350000 would destroy Wigan...

 

-- and all the nice bits on the ring too... 😞

Edited March 15, 2022 by IanD

[droshky]

Thanks for all the advice on hyperspace travel, I’ll bear it in mind when I upgrade transport modes… though I should point out that were I to follow your advice, I think I’d become almost infinitely heavy, a considerable problem for a sylph -like Lycra clad racing cyclist.

 

thanks also to Goliath and Kendorr for their more immediately relevant advice

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, droshky said:

Thanks for all the advice on hyperspace travel, I’ll bear it in mind when I upgrade transport modes… though I should point out that were I to follow your advice, I think I’d become almost infinitely heavy, a considerable problem for a sylph -like Lycra clad racing cyclist.

 

thanks also to Goliath and Kendorr for their more immediately relevant advice

Nah, only about 20% heavier -- but only seen from outside, inside the boat you'd weigh exactly the same and your boat would be the normal length. Relativatistically speaking... 😉

[droshky]

Yeah but when I slow down to jump on my Canyon, it would become real, and even 20% would destroy me

And anyway, you just made that up, I’m sticking with infinitely heavier

[IanD]

1 minute ago, droshky said:

Yeah but when I slow down to jump on my Canyon, it would become real, and even 20% would destroy me

But when you slow down it would return to normal 😉

 

To be pedantically accurate your mass would increase by 20% but your weight would stay the same, as would your size as seen by you -- you'd only look shorter (or your boat would) to the observer you pass. Assuming they were watching you through thick armoured glass inside a bombproof bunker...

[droshky]

Getting back to the south Pennine ring… came down Marple and spoke to a guy who’d just turned back from lock 6 on the Hudd narrow. Sounds very bad, low water, many obstructions. He could hear the swearing of the descending boats’ crews before their engines!

 

Among his problems he was grounded for many hours well into the dark in a pound, had to wade to the side and let water down himself to refloat.

 

was he exaggerating?

 

It makes me very nervous about taking it on (anti-clockwise as mentioned)

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

46 minutes ago, droshky said:

Getting back to the south Pennine ring… came down Marple and spoke to a guy who’d just turned back from lock 6 on the Hudd narrow. Sounds very bad, low water, many obstructions. He could hear the swearing of the descending boats’ crews before their engines!

 

Among his problems he was grounded for many hours well into the dark in a pound, had to wade to the side and let water down himself to refloat.

 

was he exaggerating?

 

It makes me very nervous about taking it on (anti-clockwise as mentioned)

Personally I’d still go for it. Lock 6 will be at Stalybridge.
Give CRT a ring and ask about it. If there is a problem, others will have rang and they might be doing something about it.

I haven’t looked, are there stoppages up there that might be causing a problem?

 

 

I always have to check things out myself: It’s a 2 mile walk from the junction to Stalyvagas, or a short bus ride and then a walk down to see what’s going on.

If I had trusted too much in what some boaters or walkers had told me I’d have turned back and missed lots of opportunities. 

I don’t tend to believe anything until I see it myself.

Because one boater has failed don’t mean you will 😎
 

 

[droshky]

That is the way I’m thinking. But it’d relax me (and Mrs D!) to hear that people were making it thru without too much drama.

We have had the bottom overplated, so despite removing most of the ballast, we are a bit deep in the water compared to most. And also, we want it to be fun, and we want to get up the Pennines towards the tunnel in short order.

 

so with the utmost gratitude for any good wishes, who’s been up or down the Huddersfield narrow from Portland basin recently?

 

[NickMc]

I would still give it a go, but with the knowledge it is not going to be easy and yes you are going to have problems. 

 

I left Manchester and ran out of water at the second pound, but still made it over the summit.

 

I was also grounded for several hours in the middle and spent the time cleaning the prop and knocking up an even better breakfast/brunch... 

 

It would appear that the doom and gloom stories far out way anything positive... 

 

On a side note.... Thank you for the water and advice David and I hope your better half enjoys the honey. 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, NickMc said:

I would still give it a go, but with the knowledge it is not going to be easy and yes you are going to have problems. 

 

I left Manchester and ran out of water at the second pound, but still made it over the summit.

 

I was also grounded for several hours in the middle and spent the time cleaning the prop and knocking up an even better breakfast/brunch... 

 

It would appear that the doom and gloom stories far out way anything positive... 

 

On a side note.... Thank you for the water and advice David and I hope your better half enjoys the honey. 

Every time we've done the HNC there was a problem somewhere with low pounds, you just need to allow that this might happen when planning.

 

But this is still possibly my favourite canal, you shouldn't be put off by the doom-mongers... 😉

[dmr]

Have you got to Todmorden? The Golden Lion is good but can go a bit over the top at weekends. Hebden has loads of pubs but gets busy at weekends, I rather like Nightjar, the little micro under the Cinema. After your night in the Newton Heath Crown all the Yorkshire pubs will be heaven. Not opened the honey yet. Nice boat.

[droshky]

Thanks guys, I’m emboldened to carry on! In full knowledge that it’s my personal informed decision and no one else’s responsibility.

 

Like hell I am, anything goes wrong and I’ll <expletive deleted> … not really, thanks for the tips.

 

Generally I’m guessing that if we can creep up in the wet weather we should eventually make it. Given our deepness, that’ll surely take us longer than most. So should I budget 2? 3? days to get up to Standedge, or at least to where we can moor and leave in “normal” security?

 

Worst of all worlds would be get 1/2 way up and give up, then have to return and find somewhere safe swiftly.

 

As you may have spotted, still a little edgy, thanks again for all the tips 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, droshky said:

Thanks guys, I’m emboldened to carry on! In full knowledge that it’s my personal informed decision and no one else’s responsibility.

 

Like hell I am, anything goes wrong and I’ll <expletive deleted> … not really, thanks for the tips.

 

Generally I’m guessing that if we can creep up in the wet weather we should eventually make it. Given our deepness, that’ll surely take us longer than most. So should I budget 2? 3? days to get up to Standedge, or at least to where we can moor and leave in “normal” security?

 

Worst of all worlds would be get 1/2 way up and give up, then have to return and find somewhere safe swiftly.

 

As you may have spotted, still a little edgy, thanks again for all the tips 

Even in a deeper-drafted boat you *will* get though, you just need to allow extra time when planning -- say 50% longer than suggested -- to run water down in shallow pounds. May be worth pre-warning CART, they might be able to provide assistance.

 

Don't forget Standedge has to be booked in advance and IIRC is only open 3 days a week (Mon/Wed/Fri) with 3 boats each way per day, so if you book a slot and miss it you'll have to wait for 2 days for the next one.

 

It's a memorable trip though 🙂

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

15 minutes ago, droshky said:

Thanks guys, I’m emboldened to carry on! In full knowledge that it’s my personal informed decision and no one else’s responsibility.

 

Like hell I am, anything goes wrong and I’ll <expletive deleted> … not really, thanks for the tips.

 

Generally I’m guessing that if we can creep up in the wet weather we should eventually make it. Given our deepness, that’ll surely take us longer than most. So should I budget 2? 3? days to get up to Standedge, or at least to where we can moor and leave in “normal” security?

 

Worst of all worlds would be get 1/2 way up and give up, then have to return and find somewhere safe swiftly.

 

As you may have spotted, still a little edgy, thanks again for all the tips 

It’s not the badlands up there 😃

Roaches Lock is a decent place to rest over or leave the boat.

👍

[droshky]

Yes that’s exactly what I’d heard, thanks for confirmation 

[Stroudwater1]

We did the HNC both ways last July though with several crew - it was fine.

 

Only places we briefly struggled was just below the bottom Diggle lock coming up which seemed shallow under the bridge. The way you are going oddly it was fine, possibly as we went with the water though it’s a long pound and wasn’t low either way.
The pound immediately above Slaithwaites guillotine lock was low both ways but was OK. Just above lock 2 on the HBC was slow with weeds and  low water.  
 

Water flows into the top pound in several places and there was extraction lower down the east side from the river so water supply seems fine. Lock 1E pound is usually low but the lockie nurtures that pound. 
That was in a  boat that’s not deep draught though. 

The bakery just below The guillotine lock is good. Mooring at either end of the tunnel is very pleasant so if you miss your slot it’s not a great problem to wait for the next passage. Mooring In most places seems safe, though the sides can be shallow in places.
 

We stopped in Stalybridge by Tesco just above the lock (watch out for trolleys and duck “debris”)  some recommend the pound below Tesco but that was  overgrown and not so nice last year. On the E side we moored  in the pound where there is a water point in Slaithwaite. Just opposite the wood factory can be noisy at night there.

 

It’s a lovely canal, one of the best IMHO. If any pound is low don’t go at any speed as your prop goes lower in the water and searches out bottom debris. This especially so on the Rochdale flight out of Manchester. Debris on the prop gave us the most problems on our journey. 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by Stroudwater1

[droshky]

Very helpful, thanks Stroudwater1

[NickMc]

A quick update now I am back on my home moorings...

 

A lack of water was my main problem, unfortunately the locks on the Rochdale don't match the pounds, when the water is low it compounds the problem and ploughing a trough to get through only fouls the prop even more.

 

I filled 2 bin bags of plastic that I took off the prop going up the Rochdale and cut off 2 carpets & 2 mattresses that I could not physically lift out, (but did report them to CRT). On the Huddersfield Broad I managed to recover a 4 man tent complete with flexible poles and perhaps the most annoying was a dangly fender on the Macclesfield canal complete with broken plastic hook and stainless steel shackle. Unfortunately my boat was never built with a weed hatch, so a sickle blade on a long pole came in handy.

 

I am not too sure if CRT can get the supermarkets to pay for the removal of their trollies from the cut, but if they can or if they could ask them to make a donation to the various canal societies for each trolly removed, it would help. 

 

CRT North West were helpful going up the Rochdale and when I was grounded they called me back to make sure I was OK and to update me on the water situation.

 

CRT North East were also helpful in adjusting the bookings for the Huddersfield Narrow and for deploying teams to send down water (both going up and down) as well as the Volunteers at Standedge Tunnel for bringing my booking forward at short notice.

 

Plenty of good places to eat and drink, local shops selling fresh produce and a few big supermarkets scattered around as well.

 

On the whole an enjoyable trip on canals I have not done on my own before, some good advice on here, met some good people on the way, had some one off experiences I hope not to repeat and learnt a little more about myself, my boat and the canals we share.

 

 

[droshky]

Much later update from us… we never did get through before the tunnel closed. So we’ve been waiting…since July! Next proposed reopening is late March, going to ring tomorrow to try and book. Will we never get back if we go through?😀

[Adam]

19 hours ago, droshky said:

Much later update from us… we never did get through before the tunnel closed. So we’ve been waiting…since July! Next proposed reopening is late March, going to ring tomorrow to try and book. Will we never get back if we go through?😀

Tunnel bookings are open now (1 each way mon,wed,fri) Luckily enough i saw the email come in and managed to get the first west - east passage. Likely will be the first boat up the west side once 7w opens?... wish me luck