just a silly question i need to ask

[Dave Potter]

When you moor up to good moorings that give access to roads, towns and utilities for boaters, are the top of gunnels

level to the towpath?

higher than the towpath?

lower than the towpath ?

thanks for your time and happy boating 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Dave Potter said:

When you moor up to good moorings that give access to roads, towns and utilities for boaters, are the top of gunnels

level to the towpath?

higher than the towpath?

lower than the towpath ?

thanks for your time and happy boating 

 

 

All of the above.

 

I have moored up where I have had to climb up on the roof and then a 'big-step-up' to get ashore, I have moored up with the water level just a few inches below the edge of the towpath and had to 'jump' down to the ground.

[toffeedanish]

And the relative height of the water may change when you are moored as a pound fills or empties or a river rises or falls.

[Tony Brooks]

I think that as the gunnel height above the waterline varies between boats and so does the local topography the answer is it all depends, really a silly question.

[Dave Potter]

thanks for your reply on average higher or lower most of the time i am working on a system for axis on and off a canal boat for disable users and need to estimate the drop and rise of a design i have a average but thought i would ask the users of the network     

Edited March 3, 2022 by Dave Potter
up date

[Tonka]

Also varies depending on hull build. Also where along the boat the door is. Gunnel higher at front then at rear. 

[toffeedanish]

Taking an average of all the variables (waterway characteristics, boat design, water level) I would say that on a popular good mooring gunnels would be higher than the towpath, but there are countless examples where this is not the case.

[David Mack]

Why do you need to ask? It's obviously going to vary by mooring location and boat design.

[Captain Pegg]

If mooring a more standard narrowboat hull design at a signed visitor mooring I would expect that in the vast majority of cases the gunwales would be above the top of the bank.

 

I have particularly low freeboard for a narrowboat but I still find I can usually but not always get the side doors open on the towpath side. 

[TheBiscuits]

20 minutes ago, Dave Potter said:

i am working on a system for axis on and off a canal boat for disable users and need to estimate the drop and rise

 

If it's for wheelchair access, the usual solution is a longer gangplank ramp, and accepting that there will be some places where it won't work.

 

The longer ramp also works in places where the height difference is fine but the boat can't get any closer than a couple of feet to the bank.

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I have particularly low freeboard for a narrowboat but I still find I can usually but not always get the side doors open on the towpath side. 

Same here

Sometimes I drop a tyre out to keep me off the bank so I can open me side doors.

Doesn't happen often, but happens often enough. 

[Tonka]

4 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

If it's for wheelchair access, the usual solution is a longer gangplank ramp, and accepting that there will be some places where it won't work.

 

The longer ramp also works in places where the height difference is fine but the boat can't get any closer than a couple of feet to the bank.

But surely we will get another stupid question asking us how wide is the towpath at the mooring as this could hinder a long plank being used.

[Momac]

28 minutes ago, Dave Potter said:

thanks for your reply on average higher or lower most of the time i am working on a system for axis on and off a canal boat for disable users and need to estimate the drop and rise of a design i have a average but thought i would ask the users of the network     

There is no point in having a wheelchair ramp so steep that it cannot be safely used 

Some guidance here 

https://www.wheelchair-ramps.co.uk/special/maximum-slope-for-wheelchair-ramps/#:~:text=Maximum slope for portable wheelchair,assisted use over shorter distances.

 

A local trip boat starts and finishes its journeys at a floating pontoon so the equipment for wheelchair access requires only a limited range of relative movement between the boat and the pontoon.

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, Dave Potter said:

thanks for your reply on average higher or lower most of the time i am working on a system for axis on and off a canal boat for disable users and need to estimate the drop and rise of a design i have a average but thought i would ask the users of the network     

 

A disabled boater I travelled in convoy with had a 'trailer' in which he kept his disabled buggy, the lid opened and an electrically controlled hydraulic lift lifted the buggy to a suitable height for the ramps to be deployed.

 

We have a dog-ramp which was planned to make it easier for the dog to get on and off the boat, but, it has pretty much turned out to be a waste of space and money as it is often too steep (in either direction) for him to get off, or back on again. It has been so steep that he has just slid down it which has put him off. We are back to carrying him on and off - which is not easy if you need to use a ladder.

 

The wall in the picture is probably about 3 feet above the gunwale, which otherwise would require a plank at something like a 60 degree angle.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Tonka said:

But surely we will get another stupid question asking us how wide is the towpath at the mooring as this could hinder a long plank being used.

 

I don't think it's a particularly stupid question.  

 

Folding or sliding adjustable length can work well but may get complicated and heavy.  I've seen more than one that needed hydraulic assist to deploy!

[David Mack]

9 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

If it's for wheelchair access, the usual solution is a longer gangplank ramp, and accepting that there will be some places where it won't work.

 

Most narrowboats designed specifically for wheelchair access have a section of gunwale/hull side cut away to minimise the level difference between the boat deck and the land alongside.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The lowest height of the ground by which you are moored is usually going to be the water line of the boat, as it is unlikely that you will moor there if the mooring is underwater. If the water level rises to flood the mooring spot, then a design that assumes this as a minimum is going to make extra difficulties getting some one off the boat in an emergency.

There is no maximum height. I've moored at places where you step off the roof, rather than the deck, or even climb a ladder.

However, places that flood frequently will often have floating pontoons to moor against, giving a constant height, relative to the boat.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, David Mack said:

Why do you need to ask? It's obviously going to vary by mooring location and boat design.

I don't assume everyone knows about Canal boats just cos they are using this forum

I'm not to sure anyone an answer this, as plastic cruisers tend to sit high, and steel narowboats sit low. 

1 hour ago, Tonka said:

But surely we will get another stupid question asking us how wide is the towpath at the mooring as this could hinder a long plank being used.

I thought The Rule on this forum is that there are no stupid questions? 

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, Dave Potter said:

thanks for your reply on average higher or lower most of the time i am working on a system for axis on and off a canal boat for disable users and need to estimate the drop and rise of a design i have a average but thought i would ask the users of the network     

Sorry that just isn't possible There probably are not two locations the same

 

[Tonka]

41 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I thought The Rule on this forum is that there are no stupid questions? 

Pot calling kettle black springs to my mind

[magpie patrick]

There are existing disabled access boats that have ramps - some of them are holiday hire such as the Bruce Trust https://www.brucetrust.org.uk/ and thus have to deal with a range of towpath heights and conditions - might be worth having a look at them. 

[max's son]

The Pamela May 2 on  the Droitwich canals has wheelchair access built by Ortomarine

 

Ortomarine all electric narrowboat

 

 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

5 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

There are existing disabled access boats that have ramps - some of them are holiday hire such as the Bruce Trust https://www.brucetrust.org.uk/ and thus have to deal with a range of towpath heights and conditions - might be worth having a look at them. 

The majority of the trips that these sorts of community access boats do are familiar ones, over a known route from their base. They will have picked routes and mooring spots that are compatible with whatever disabled access features they have on board. If travelling further afield, it is highly likely that there will be some reconnaissance ahead of time. A good tow path mooring may already have other boats on it, pushing the community boat somewhere less suitable. Places with controlled mooring, like pubs, boat yards and marinas would give more of a guarantee that you can moor up and let people off where they expect.

[magpie patrick]

1 minute ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The majority of the trips that these sorts of community access boats do are familiar ones, over a known route from their base. They will have picked routes and mooring spots that are compatible with whatever disabled access features they have on board. If travelling further afield, it is highly likely that there will be some reconnaissance ahead of time. A good tow path mooring may already have other boats on it, pushing the community boat somewhere less suitable. Places with controlled mooring, like pubs, boat yards and marinas would give more of a guarantee that you can moor up and let people off where they expect.

 I am for once going to be argumentative - if you'd read what I said these https://www.brucetrust.org.uk/ are hire boats that are free to travel anywhere within the hire period and moor up anywhere along the length - thus they encounter most of the conditions (including for this particular company the Avon, Kennet and Thames river navigations) that a normal private boat might encounter. 

[Jen-in-Wellies]

3 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 I am for once going to be argumentative - if you'd read what I said these https://www.brucetrust.org.uk/ are hire boats that are free to travel anywhere within the hire period and moor up anywhere along the length - thus they encounter most of the conditions (including for this particular company the Avon, Kennet and Thames river navigations) that a normal private boat might encounter. 

Good to know that these boats are available and can give a much wider experience of the waterways. I was going by the ones with disabled access that I was more familiar with.