BMC 1500D rebuild including engine oil analysis.

[TNLI]

2 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Timing chain slipper and tensioner along with the sprockets. What about the big ends? If the crank is reground you will need undersize ones. Oil slinger?

There is no belt.

Best place for a magnet is around the oil filter can, not in the sump.

Thanks, the company I'm using to recondition the crank will be changing the big ends I presume.

  So new revised list:

 OIL PUMP DRIVE

 TIMING CHAIN, SLIPPER, TENSIONER 

 INJECTION PUMP

SKEW GEARS FOR INJECTION PUMP ?

Edited March 8, 2022 by TNLI

[TNLI]

Should have said in last post that magnets do not really work too well in the engine, but they do work very well in the sump of a gearbox, manual or hydraulic.

 

There is some UOA evidence that a magnet on the end of the oil filter helps it function, but it was based on using some kind of very powerful magnet from a computer drive. It reduced the Iron content of the used oil slightly buy helping the oil filter to function in a more efficient manner. 

   I normally try and magnetise the dip stick itself to help remove ultra fine Iron particles, although if you want to really reduce the wear metals, fit an effective sump heater pad to warm up the oil. Wolverine seem to be the best company and they sell 12V and 230V stick on pads. Although like regrinding crank shafts to avoid trashing another set of bearings, it's rare to see a boat with any type of wear avoidance systems. It is of more concern as the BMC series should use a conventional base stock oil, and the thinnest ones are the 10W40's. I don't know of a conventional base stock oil that is a 0W40, even the vast majority of 5W30 or 40's are not conventional, although some are part synthetics. 

[Tony Brooks]

I really can no longer understand how all those 30 year old ex hire boats with BMCs are still running tolerably well and not giving problems with only basic maintenance and the use of just the recommend oil of any brand. It seems they should have worn out years ago,

[TNLI]

10 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

I really can no longer understand how all those 30 year old ex hire boats with BMCs are still running tolerably well and not giving problems with only basic maintenance and the use of just the recommend oil of any brand. It seems they should have worn out years ago,

Many older canal boats are scrapped, and one reason that is a factor in such a decision is the bad condition or failure of the engine. This does mean it is still possible to buy a cheap but very Iffy BMC 1500D. Even with canal boats still in use, if the main engine fails in an expensive way, it's not uncommon to find an outboard has been fitted. 

  Not sure how many canal boats are used all year in the UK, but many of them would be like the typical small yacht in usage terms, so only in regular use for 6 months of the year. Running tolerably well is not good in water contamination terms.

 

Interesting fact of the day, a normal CO monitor does not register the CO level in diesel exhaust fumes. A much more expensive adjustable alarm monitor that shows the actual CO content will. 

  There really should be some type of MOT as regards any engine in use on a canal that includes a CO level check like wot a normal MOT.

 

PS: I thought the boats with BMC 1.5's in them were over 30 years old ??

Edited March 10, 2022 by TNLI

[StephenA]

2 hours ago, TNLI said:

Many older canal boats are scrapped, and one reason that is a factor in such a decision is the bad condition or failure of the engine. This does mean it is still possible to buy a cheap but very Iffy BMC 1500D. Even with canal boats still in use, if the main engine fails in an expensive way, it's not uncommon to find an outboard has been fitted. 

 

 

WTF? People scrap narrowboats because the engine dies? Where on earth did you get that from?, and no people do not bolt outboards onto 52 foot narrowboats.

 

2 hours ago, TNLI said:

  There really should be some type of MOT as regards any engine in use on a canal that includes a CO level check like wot a normal MOT.

 

You do know why there are so many BMC 1.5D engines on the canal system don't you?

 

 

I said I was never going to reply to your posts again, and I suspect I'll regret posting this.

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, StephenA said:

 

WTF? People scrap narrowboats because the engine dies? Where on earth did you get that from?, and no people do not bolt outboards onto 52 foot narrowboats.

 

 

You do know why there are so many BMC 1.5D engines on the canal system don't you?

 

 

I said I was never going to reply to your posts again, and I suspect I'll regret posting this.

The marine scrap yards seem to have quite a number of steel barges and other smallish canal boats in a rather bad state of repair, and if you have a boat with both a bad hull or rotting interior then if any old donkey is also on its last legs, it's often better to sell the boat for scrap. I'm fully aware that the BMC 1500D was the most common engine fitted to narrow boats and small motor sailors in the 60's.

 

Oddly enough this forum has a thread about outboard canal boats:

 

Can't understand why some posters say they are not going to reply, and then continue to reply regardless, hope you are not too sensitive to any reply to this thread. If you are try putting me on block.

 

PS: It just occurred to me that one reason why some listers might think that very few canal boats have outboards, is that they are often fitted into a well, so can't be seen too easily. There are a few yachts I have seen that also use outboards in a well as a cheap option to an expensive diesel inboard.

Edited March 10, 2022 by TNLI

[Janz]

On 07/03/2022 at 09:41, Tony Brooks said:

 

And I suspect virtually all spin on filters will have an anti-drain down valve because so many applications mount oil filters horizontally and making a few "specials" for engines that do not need such a feature would not e economic.

I have this arrangement on my BMC. Be careful as using the early type two hole starter motor means the oil filter has to be mounted at a slight angle due to the bowed out end cap. Both starter motors (two hole & three hole), fit the BMC 1500 D so you can swap 'em...

[TNLI]

If anyone is looking for a BMC 1500D, there is one on Fleabay:

Bmc 1500 diesel engine | eBay

 

Ask for a video clip of it turning over by hand, just in case it seized. Alas there is no way of telling if the head has warped or the crank shaft has cracked from pictures or a video clip too easily, and the seller does say it is not a marine version, so keel cooling unless you want to buy a heater exchanger, (New Bowman is around 800 quid from ASAP). I presume the HP fuel pump has been sold.

 

TB might want to comment on the differences between a car BMC 1.5D and a marine BMC 1500D, as I think the HP pump has to be of a different type, (CAV), that acts as a governor and the sump will need the oil drain plug blanking, (Easy), and new drain pump fitted, (About 100 quid from OEM manufacturer or less from scrap yard and ASAP list the seals). Oddly enough I don't think a diesel needs a governor if it's used in the canals, coastal or offshore it sure does need one to avoid surging in RPM terms due to changes in the load on the prop. Not sure if you fit an expensive Auto Prop that keeps the loading constant by adjusting the pitch, although a new one is around 3 grand! 

Edited March 12, 2022 by TNLI

[TNLI]

OK, just heard back from the crankshaft grinders, that they are going to regrind the crank and fit main bearings, BUT wwant me to find a new oil pump, (Worn out of limits), timing chain and some bolts and tabs for the pulley or pulleys, (Not sure which bolts, so will collect the old ones, as I already have a set of Imperial fine thread ones.

 

Timing chain will be easy to find, BUT not seen an oil pump fitted, anyone know where I might find one ??

[Tony Brooks]

Calcutt list the oil pump at just over £100.I expect they will have the big end and main tab  washers and bolts.

[TNLI]

Thanks, but they are out of stock. I did get all of the lock tabs from them, but the only company the ASAP girl could find that had a BMC 1.5 oil pump, was Tractor Spare Part Ltd, who have been very helpful and also found the main bearings bolts I could not locate, mainly because they are in fact listed as main cap screws. Not many folks bother to change them when replacing the mains, but like everything 60 odd years old, it would be daft not to use new ones.

  It is a bit odd that there is no service kit for the oil pump, or at least I could not find one.

 

Tractor Spare Parts, Nuffield, Leyland & Marshall tractor spare part specialists

[Tracy D'arth]

1 hour ago, TNLI said:

Thanks, but they are out of stock. I did get all of the lock tabs from them, but the only company the ASAP girl could find that had a BMC 1.5 oil pump, was Tractor Spare Part Ltd, who have been very helpful and also found the main bearings bolts I could not locate, mainly because they are in fact listed as main cap screws. Not many folks bother to change them when replacing the mains, but like everything 60 odd years old, it would be daft not to use new ones.

  It is a bit odd that there is no service kit for the oil pump, or at least I could not find one.

 

Tractor Spare Parts, Nuffield, Leyland & Marshall tractor spare part specialists

I have never changed the main bearing cap bolts on a BMC motor.

Its an engine designed in the 1940s, production in the UK finished sometime in the 1970s. The tooling was shipped to India but production there stopped years ago. BMC became Rover and LDV/Daf and disappeared completely when BMW took over "Mini" production and Daf dumped LDV.

All the spares outlet went at the same time. Lookers were the last.

Why would you expect there still to be a complete spares inventory for this engine? We are lucky that the aftermarket continues to produce the fast moving spare parts.

I rebuilt my last 1.8D in 1999 and did get a new or reworked ( can't remember which ) oil pump then, I think its the same pump body. But I would struggle to get one now.

[Stilllearning]

I can’t decide whether the OP is a complete pedant or a wind-up artiste.

[Tracy D'arth]

29 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

I can’t decide whether the OP is a complete pedant or a wind-up artiste.

I have the same reservations, as do some others. But I will answer sensible posts.

I disregard any relating to liquid Moly or his erroneous technical misinformation.

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have never changed the main bearing cap bolts on a BMC motor.

Its an engine designed in the 1940s, production in the UK finished sometime in the 1970s. The tooling was shipped to India but production there stopped years ago. BMC became Rover and LDV/Daf and disappeared completely when BMW took over "Mini" production and Daf dumped LDV.

All the spares outlet went at the same time. Lookers were the last.

Why would you expect there still to be a complete spares inventory for this engine? We are lucky that the aftermarket continues to produce the fast moving spare parts.

I rebuilt my last 1.8D in 1999 and did get a new or reworked ( can't remember which ) oil pump then, I think its the same pump body. But I would struggle to get one now.

 

I did not struggle to find any of the parts the crankshaft specialist company insisted be replaced in order to get a full inspectors sign off and warranty. I did have to buy them from three different companies as follows:

  I do have a bit of a problem with the back order date and will have to see if I can find some of the out of stock items from a company that has them in stock, rather than wait for the next boat from India, or a slow boat from China.

 

CALCUTTA BOATS 

Order details:

No.	Quantity	Product no.	Name	UP	VAT	TP
1	1 piece(s)	A3ADU5343	TIMING CHAIN BMC 1.5	£17.00	20%	£17.00
2	1 piece(s)	BM1A2028	CRANK SHAFT GEAR BMC 1.5 & 1.8	£56.00	20%	£56.00
3	Subtotal					£73.00
4	Delivery method		Standard delivery			£12.00

 

ASAP

Thank you for your web order . Please be advised that the following 
KEY CAMSHAFT SPROCKET BMC 1.5 +1.8 order date mgoc 7th June 
LOCKTAB FOR FWHEEL1.5MK2/1.8/2.5BMC - mid June 
TENSIONER ASSEMBLY TIMING CHAIN 1.5 - no date
 We will despatch all available items from our stock now and as soon as the remaining items arrive, we will forward on to you.
Best Regards,

Liz Munnings
customerservices@asap-supplies.com
01502 716993
 

TRACTOR SPARE PARTS

12H242 - OIL PUMP (1500 ENGINE)

MANUFACTURER: LEYLAND TRACTORSPART NUMBER: 12H242

PRICE: £126.10 [EX VAT]  PLUS another 30 quid for the intake screen.

CAP BOLTS (They refer to them as machine screws) 6 times 6 equals 36 and they are on back order but have already been sourced.

 

51 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have the same reservations, as do some others. But I will answer sensible posts.

I disregard any relating to liquid Moly or his erroneous technical misinformation.

Obviously I'm restoring this engine to a higher standard than normal, as I do not want it to wear out or fail until after I'm dead! 

Can you 2 put me on block, as it seems any post that involves restoring a BMC correctly causes your blood pressure to rise ??

Edited March 16, 2022 by TNLI

[Tam & Di]

13 minutes ago, TNLI said:

CALCUTTA BOATS 

Order details:

No.	Quantity	Product no.	Name	UP	VAT	TP

Did the price include delivery and import duties from India?   😃

 

Tam

[TNLI]

11 hours ago, Tam & Di said:

Did the price include delivery and import duties from India?   😃

 

Tam

Very funny, Calcutta Boats Ltd now have an office in Blighty, not India. So if they quote for a part UK law says the price must include VAT, with shipping and customs all included in that price. I will let you know what stamps and bar codes are on the boxes when they arrive. Can't really understand why they can't make an oil pump service kit, as it is kind of rare to find you have to buy an entire unit, and rather less than funny that the screen filter is sold separately.

 

Umm, Err, just noticed their prices don't include VAT, so I'm going to ask for a few free tins of Vindaloo, as my local supermarket only has tinned Madras curry at present.

Edited March 17, 2022 by TNLI

[Quattrodave]

4 hours ago, TNLI said:

Very funny, Calcutta Boats Ltd now have an office in Blighty, not India.

 

Er Calcutt Boats are in Warwickshire last time I looked, not too far from Rugby...

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Er Calcutt Boats are in Warwickshire last time I looked, not too far from Rugby...

 

Right by Calcutt locks in fact and nothing to do with Calcutta at all.

[cuthound]

8 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Right by Calcutt locks in fact and nothing to do with Calcutta at all.

 

Oh ... 🤣

[StephenA]

10 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Er Calcutt Boats are in Warwickshire last time I looked, not too far from Rugby...

 

And Calcutta Boats are in Sarasota Florida

[jonathanA]

17 hours ago, TNLI said:

So if they quote for a part UK law says the price must include VAT, with shipping and customs all included in that price. I

I must have missed that law being enacted....along with just about every trade supplier I deal with.... 

[TNLI]

1 hour ago, jonathanA said:

I must have missed that law being enacted....along with just about every trade supplier I deal with.... 

They can quote a price and then write plus VAT after. No idea how I added the shipping in after the first sentence as that is added at the end. As for Calcutta Boats who sell BMC parts, I'm surprised they seem to import their parts from Florida according to Google:

Calcutta Boatworks (calcuttaboats.com)

I will check their box along with the ASAP one that also arrives tomorrow morning, postal Gods willing.

 

Question, the parts required message implies that they can start assembling the various sump related systems once I deliver the timing chain kit, 6 machine screws for the mains and new oil pump. It looks like I might get all those parts tomorrow. So the question is that can the sump be put back on without the locking tabs or washers listed ?? I've agreed they can deliver it back to my boat or garage without the gearbox, or the pulley as that has one locking tab, but I'm not sure what all of the tabs are for and most are on back order anyway. Alas most companies don't do a proper inventory check every year, so it will be interesting to see what exactly turns up tomorrow.

Edited March 18, 2022 by TNLI

[Tracy D'arth]

6 hours ago, TNLI said:

They can quote a price and then write plus VAT after. No idea how I added the shipping in after the first sentence as that is added at the end. As for Calcutta Boats who sell BMC parts, I'm surprised they seem to import their parts from Florida according to Google:

Calcutta Boatworks (calcuttaboats.com)

I will check their box along with the ASAP one that also arrives tomorrow morning, postal Gods willing.

 

Question, the parts required message implies that they can start assembling the various sump related systems once I deliver the timing chain kit, 6 machine screws for the mains and new oil pump. It looks like I might get all those parts tomorrow. So the question is that can the sump be put back on without the locking tabs or washers listed ?? I've agreed they can deliver it back to my boat or garage without the gearbox, or the pulley as that has one locking tab, but I'm not sure what all of the tabs are for and most are on back order anyway. Alas most companies don't do a proper inventory check every year, so it will be interesting to see what exactly turns up tomorrow.

Its NOT Calcutta. Its Calcutt, in the UK. Napton.

Yes, you can fit the sump omitting the lock tabs and throw them away. The bolts may fall out though. What did you think they were for?

[Tony Brooks]

I don't think TNLI has bothered to tell us exactly what lock tabs he is on about. I hope it is the man and big end lock tabs but there are more on the front plate, back plate and timing chain tensioner so he is asking a question that is impossible to answer. I hope its the main and big end lock tabs and I agree with Tracy, by all means leave them out if you wish. I also hope that TNLI has not really bought any old machine screws for the big ends/mains. They are definable bolts, not machine screws, and may be high tensile ones

Edited March 18, 2022 by Tony Brooks