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Battery problems


Biafreespirit

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If you give your general location, you may get a recommendation for an electrician in the area.
 
If you have a multimeter, and are prepared to have a go at troubleshooting the problem yourself, you are likely to get a lot of help from the good folk on here, but be warned, unless it is something simple, you will likely be asked lots of questions.
 
It may be as simple as a wire fallen off your alternator, or an intermittent multi plug connector on the wiring loom.
 
It seems odd that they would be so low, given you have solar panels installed. Maybe your voltmeter is reading low.
 
Anyway, the first question you need to answer is, are you after just a recommendation for an electrician, or are you wanting advice on how to fix it yourself?
Edited by rusty69
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Quote

is not going over 10.1

I assume this is 10.1V. Where/how are you measuring this?

First questions. Are the battery isolation switches in the "on" position? Assuming there is a big fuse to the batteries, is this intact?

What is the measured voltage on the house batteries with the engine running? In the second picture, the right hand battery is the engine one. The three left hand batteries are the house ones.

Jen

 

Just now, rusty69 said:
 
As the thread title is about Lithium abuse, and as I am likely to soon be abusing mine, perhaps through ignorance rather than intent, I would like to ask the assembled experts this.
 
I have 28 cells (Thundersky), connected as a nominal 12V bank, It has a cheapy chinese BMS (JBD/Overkill type). The BMS monitors and 'protects' cell voltage and overall bank voltage, but only of the 4 parallel connected cells. 
 
So, what is the likely hood of the BMS protecting the overall pack in the event of one or more of the parallel connected cells going over 4 V?
 
I assume, being connected in parallel they should all be of a similar voltage  and a lot will depend on what charge and disconnect values I have set.

Think you've just replied to the wrong topic!

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2 minutes ago, rusty69 said:
 
As the thread title is about Lithium abuse, and as I am likely to soon be abusing mine, perhaps through ignorance rather than intent, I would like to ask the assembled experts this.
 
I have 28 cells (Thundersky), connected as a nominal 12V bank, It has a cheapy chinese BMS (JBD/Overkill type). The BMS monitors and 'protects' cell voltage and overall bank voltage, but only of the 4 parallel connected cells. 
 
So, what is the likely hood of the BMS protecting the overall pack in the event of one or more of the parallel connected cells going over 4 V?
 
I assume, being connected in parallel they should all be of a similar voltage  and a lot will depend on what charge and disconnect values I have set.

Reported to mods, to ask to move to the correct thread.

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2 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

 

 

Think you've just replied to the wrong topic!

Right topic. Wrong words. I'm a bit rusty

Just now, matty40s said:

Reported to mods, to ask to move to the correct thread.

No, thank you. You lot are too quick.

Edited by rusty69
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If you can get hold of a short thick cable, or a jump lead, join the red of the starter to the nearest red of the 3 domestic batteries. This may allow your batteries to charge, or might trick whatever charge controller you may have to start charging(unlikely to kick in at 10.1v)

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23 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

First questions. Are the battery isolation switches in the "on" position? Assuming there is a big fuse to the batteries, is this intact?

 

 

I think we can surmise "yes" to both these questions, because Bia had the boat three days before running the batteries flat. If either the fuse was blown or the main switch OFF, none of the electrics would have worked. 

 

SO given ten hours of engine running I think we can surmise the domestic alternator is goosed. Task now is to find out why. 

 

Oh, a thought.

 

Starting the engine and just running it at tickover might well have not energised the alternator. Revving it up to get it charging is usually necessary. If this was not done, the ten hours of running yesterday could have been pointless as the alternator might not have been charging. 

 

So, back to Jen's question about what Bia is looking at to know that 10.1 figure....

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Or the batteries are completely dead from the other day.  I did say it may already be too late to revive them.

 

I think it's unlikely. I've revived many a battery from beyond the grave just by charging them. 

 

My own boat here being a case in point. I've not been down for about eight weeks and when I got here the other day the Smartgauge said the domestic bank 1% SoC. Yes 1%, and probably for about a month.

 

Bank voltage was coincidentally 10.1 too and after a recharge, they are back to performing the same as ever. 

 

 

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Somewhere you should have battery master switches, one for the engine battery and one for the domestic 3 batteries. Are they both switched on? 

Do you have any sort of battery monitor or amp and volt meters? Even 50mm circular meters on the engine control panel?

I assume it is your domestic electrics that have failed. Does the engine still start?

Looks like you have a diode splitter to divide the alternator charge current between the two batteries. These are not the best solution, and won't help with getting the batteries fully charged, but nevertheless the system should still work.

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Just now, Biafreespirit said:

Thank you all for your replyes. Very much appreciated. I think it would be better to find an electrician, as I don't understand lots of things. The area I am is greenford London. Cheers

 

Suggest you go onto farcebook 'London Boaters' page and ask the question.

 

Just make sure that you do not end up with a 'domestic' or 'vehicle' electrician as the wiring methods/practices, circuits and cable specifications are very different on a boat.

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I don't think we know how many alternator's the OP has. If it is just one then it may well be charge splitter fault. I agree if it is a diode splitter then although horrible from a charging point of view should still charge the batteries.

 

I went back to the first topic and found the OP thinks 12.2V is half charged, which is true but does not take into account that for optimum battery life batteries should not be discharged below 50% regularly so 12.2V really means CHARGE NOW to sensible boaters.

 

When running did you run at 1200 rpm plus or just idle. As MtB says the alternator may not have energized, especially with a 10.1 battery voltage.

 

I think it is time to get a multi-meter and learn how to use it to check volts so the questions above can be answered. Another question, what light light up on your "dashboard" when you turn the ignition on and do any stay on when the engine is revving at 1200 rpm or more?.

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3 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

Thank you all for your replyes. Very much appreciated. I think it would be better to find an electrician, as I don't understand lots of things. The area I am is greenford London. Cheers

 

 

You may not need to wait for and pay an electrician if you read my post from 55 minutes ago.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

Thank you all for your replyes. Very much appreciated. I think it would be better to find an electrician, as I don't understand lots of things. The area I am is greenford London. Cheers

 

I suggest that while you are  waiting that you go to www.tb-training.co.uk and study all the curse notes but especially the Electrical ones. They were written with non-technical boaters in mind. The bits you do not understand either ask here or email me directly, i s my website.

Edited by Tony Brooks
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2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

The bits you do not understand either ask here or email me directly, i s my website.m using an Outwell Ecocool Lite 24L. It has an eco setting, but it doesnt say anywhere on the product the power rating in eco mode, although i assume less than 45W. All i know is my engine is a Honda 15, but there are several different model-s with 15hp. Specs online say '12A electric/6A recoil', so im going to run with that for now.

 

I think you may be answering a different thread ...................

 

 

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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17 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

Thank you all for your replyes. Very much appreciated. I think it would be better to find an electrician, as I don't understand lots of things. The area I am is greenford London. Cheers

 

If you're not living on the boat and you can afford a marine electrician then that is an option. A visit from someone might help in the short term, but if you're living aboard I suggest you do a bit of reading of the electrical threads pinned on this forum. Also read Tony's electrical course notes as he suggests. At some point you're going to have to try to understand your boat's electrical system so it may as well be now.

Edited by blackrose
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3 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

I done this as adviced and its looks like it's working. Thank you! It's 11.5 now...

inbound4032687042785906631.jpg

 

 

 

Just be aware that if you flatten the starter battery you will not be able to start the engine.

 

Is the 11.4v with the engine running - if not get the engine strted before the 'flat batteries' empty the starter battery.

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18 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think you may be answering a different thread ..........

 

Well, not actually answered and was eddited within minutes of posting. I am having problems with something randomly inserting an old clipboard or saved test into posts, it only seems to affect the Forum. That was added when I clicked send.

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7 minutes ago, Biafreespirit said:

I done this as adviced and its looks like it's working. Thank you! It's 11.5 now...

 

inbound1573307032034722953.jpg

 

If that 11.4 volst is winbound4032687042785906631.jpg

 

If that 11.4V is with the engine revving then it suggest the alternator is not working. As soon as the alternator energies I would expect to see close to 13V or more, even on completely discharged batteries.  I don't think anything is working apart from the fact you are probably now discharging your engine battery as well. Soon you may not be able to start the engine.

 

I ask again what lights come on with the ignition  switch on the "dash board" (the think with the ignition/start switch on it and what go completely out when revving

2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

After an hour of engine running, disconnect the lead and see whether the voltage drops back down or carries on rising.

 

Also, make sure that if you have an immersion switch for your calorifier, it hasnt been switched on by mistake.

 

Good point about the immersion heater if she has one.

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1 hour ago, matty40s said:

If you can get hold of a short thick cable, or a jump lead, join the red of the starter to the nearest red of the 3 domestic batteries. This may allow your batteries to charge, or might trick whatever charge controller you may have to start charging(unlikely to kick in at 10.1v)

We did what you said and no

 

Just now, matty40s said:

After an hour of engine running, disconnect the lead and see whether the voltage drops back down or carries on rising.

 

Also, make sure that if you have an immersion switch for your calorifier, it hasnt been switched on by mistake.

From when we moved to live on the boat, from the engine we just took the hot water just on the tap and the shower on the left side of the boat and not on the calorifier. I was looking for a swich to put hot water in the calorifiers but I couldn't find it. We only used webasto for as long as it worked. Thank you, you been very helpful

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