Calorifier pump?

[Jen-in-Wellies]

The pump currently drips a lot. If, as the experts are saying, that pump is designed to drip a bit to keep the shaft bearings lubricated, then you are probably better replacing it with a different design that doesn't drip. Assuming you keep the current dual circulation systems. When the pump is used in a raw water cooling system, it doesn't matter much if it drips a bit as there is lots of water available from the outside. As long as the drip isn't so excessive that you are having to pump out the bilge too often. In your system though, there is only a limited amount of coolant available in the second header tank and you'll need to constantly be keeping an eye on it and risk overheating the engine if you forget, or the drip rate increases.

[Tony Brooks]

On the hire fleet those pumps rarely dripped a bit bit because we kept them packed and adjusted. The grease caps provide the lubrication.

 

These pumps, when in good condition, are self priming so he could have the skin tanks half empty and he would still get circulation unless the pump could suck air via the small header tank. I think he has more leeway with leaked water than you think. My Bukh was direct raw water cooled using a skin tank and once when the pump developed a leak when my son was on the boat it was still cooling perfectly well, but there was no water in the header tank and it took about six liters to refill to level.

[Janz]

6 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The pump currently drips a lot. If, as the experts are saying, that pump is designed to drip a bit to keep the shaft bearings lubricated, then you are probably better replacing it with a different design that doesn't drip. Assuming you keep the current dual circulation systems. When the pump is used in a raw water cooling system, it doesn't matter much if it drips a bit as there is lots of water available from the outside. As long as the drip isn't so excessive that you are having to pump out the bilge too often. In your system though, there is only a limited amount of coolant available in the second header tank and you'll need to constantly be keeping an eye on it and risk overheating the engine if you forget, or the drip rate increases.

I've emailed ASAP to see if they do a rebuild kit & a new belt for it. I also have a bottom hose on the way with two take offs & a number of imperial brass pipe fittings & a couple of engine gaskets. I'd like to keep the pump. In fact, if I see another one 2nd hand I'm gonna buy that n'all & see if I can build a dedicated bilge pump system using the second space on my engine pulley...

[Tracy D'arth]

I have found   https://www.jabscoshop.com/    to be the best place for Jabsco parts.

[Janz]

2 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I have found   https://www.jabscoshop.com/    to be the best place for Jabsco parts.

Thanks, I did have a look through their site but I couldn't find anything like rebuild kits for legacy or discontinued pumps.

7 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

The pump currently drips a lot. If, as the experts are saying, that pump is designed to drip a bit to keep the shaft bearings lubricated, then you are probably better replacing it with a different design that doesn't drip. Assuming you keep the current dual circulation systems. When the pump is used in a raw water cooling system, it doesn't matter much if it drips a bit as there is lots of water available from the outside. As long as the drip isn't so excessive that you are having to pump out the bilge too often. In your system though, there is only a limited amount of coolant available in the second header tank and you'll need to constantly be keeping an eye on it and risk overheating the engine if you forget, or the drip rate increases.

I've emailed ASAP to see if they do a rebuild kit & a new belt for it. I also have a bottom hose on the way with two take offs & a number of imperial brass pipe fittings & a couple of engine gaskets. I'd like to keep the pump. In fact, if I see another one 2nd hand I'm gonna buy that n'all & see if I can build a dedicated bilge pump system using the second space on my engine pulley...

[Janz]

7 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

On the hire fleet those pumps rarely dripped a bit bit because we kept them packed and adjusted. The grease caps provide the lubrication.

 

These pumps, when in good condition, are self priming so he could have the skin tanks half empty and he would still get circulation unless the pump could suck air via the small header tank. I think he has more leeway with leaked water than you think. My Bukh was direct raw water cooled using a skin tank and once when the pump developed a leak when my son was on the boat it was still cooling perfectly well, but there was no water in the header tank and it took about six liters to refill to level.

I like this. I also like the versatility of the pump design. It can be hand or drill/motor cranked & can be mounted to pretty much anything solid.

 

[Janz]

I also noticed a plate on the rocker cover that states 'Tempest.' I'm assuming they 'marinised' the BL engine so maybe that might throw some light on how the engine was originally cooled before all the bodge mods were carried out.

Do you guys think the BMC pump would run a small bathroom radiator or should I plumb that into the skin tank circuit in order to benefit from both pumps?

I should've said the bathroom is just behind the bulkhead so the water wouldn't have to travel far.

[Tony Brooks]

1. Tempest seemed to be the "official" BMC mariniser and they took over from Newage.

 

2. The engine is heat exchanger cooled. the only difference between the normal installation and yours is that that pump would water through a hull skin fitting, circulate it through the heat exchanger and possibly a gearbox oil cooler and then inject it into the exhaust or maybe direct through another skin fitting.  Yours, for some reason and according to your initial description has the heat exchanger between the two skin tanks rather than before the first tank.

 

3. You would do better to use the calorifier circuit (that has nothing to do with that pump) to heat the radiator but that involves a lot more antifreeze. Put the radiator after the calorifier. The calorifier take off pint is the blue hexagon shown in one of your photos at the back of the head top face.

 

I fear this pump (raw water) circuit is likely to run too cool for either the calorifier or radiator because there is no thermostat on that circuit controlling the water flow.

 

PS. On another pump topic. I think the rubber impeller on that pump is driven by a headless stainless screw (say 3 to 4mm) through the impeller and a hole in the shaft. The position of the pulley on the shaft for a BMC1.5 normally prevents you pulling the shaft and impeller back far enough to allow you to remove the screw so the pulley has to come off to change the impeller.  Always change the screw (a new one normally comes with the new impeller because they do fret in the hole until they snap.

 

FWIW your drive belt looks rather tight to me and that will accentuate any wear in the body. The pump will still drive with more slack that you will feel happy with, better more slack than less.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[LEO]

19 hours ago, Janz said:

I also noticed a plate on the rocker cover that states 'Tempest.' I'm assuming they 'marinised' the BL engine so maybe that might throw some light on how the engine was originally cooled before all the bodge mods were carried out.

Do you guys think the BMC pump would run a small bathroom radiator or should I plumb that into the skin tank circuit in order to benefit from both pumps?

I should've said the bathroom is just behind the bulkhead so the water wouldn't have to travel far.

I have looked for this pump on various websites and it is no longer available. There is a smaller Jabsco unit which you could use, the BMC I had was fitted with one of these smaller ones originally and it worked well, the drive shaft is a smaller diameter so you might have to change the Picador puller. As Mr B says any rads would have to be run off the calorifier circuit, the guy who bought my old boat (with the BMC) did this successfully installing 2 rads, water is pumped by the engine circulating pump.

 

[Tony Brooks]

I am not sure a smaller pump would prove to be reliable, it may well on canals but once the power needed goes up I would fear it would not have enough delivery volume, especially if a gearbox oil cooler is in use. One may well find a smaller pump listed for BMC 1.5s but that would be for either direct raw water cooling or even smaller for a genuine tank/keel cooled boat with a wet exhaust.

 

ASAP list a foot mounted pump that should do the job but it is a totally different design, at over £200 and it may need an adapter plate making for the mounting. At least that one seems to use proper bearings and a seal so should be easy to overhaul. It also has a reversible end plate, unlike the OP's, so that also helps to extend its working life.

[LEO]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

I am not sure a smaller pump would prove to be reliable, it may well on canals but once the power needed goes up I would fear it would not have enough delivery volume, especially if a gearbox oil cooler is in use. One may well find a smaller pump listed for BMC 1.5s but that would be for either direct raw water cooling or even smaller for a genuine tank/keel cooled boat with a wet exhaust.

 

ASAP list a foot mounted pump that should do the job but it is a totally different design, at over £200 and it may need an adapter plate making for the mounting. At least that one seems to use proper bearings and a seal so should be easy to overhaul. It also has a reversible end plate, unlike the OP's, so that also helps to extend its working life.

True, but I found the smaller pump worked well on my boat (30Ft BMC 1.5 raw water cooled, it was a strange arrangement which incorporated a Calorifier. I found adjusting the diameter of the Pulley varied the flow rate, it was used on the Thames. It did overheat, ticking over in locks, but I found this was due to water channels in the block getting silted up. In the end I carried out a major redesign of the cooling system, cleaned all the waterways in the block, converted it from raw water cooled to a heat exchanger and changed the raw water circulating pump. Initially, I had problems, too smaller pulley caused the engine to run too cold and water gushed out of the exhaust. A much larger pulley improved things and then engine ran well. Really, they only push water though a heat exchanger, and oil coolers (engine and gearbox) and out through the exhaust.

 

The old smaller Jabsco, I overhauled and run it coupled to a small lawnmower petrol engine to water the garden pumping water from a rainwater storage unit.

 

Hope this helps, but I do take your point.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, LEO said:

A much larger pulley improved things and then engine ran well. Really, they only push water though a heat exchanger, and oil coolers (engine and gearbox) and out through the exhaust.

 

Not trying to be picky but that suggests you increased the size of the crankshaft pulley and I don't think I have ever seen anything but the typical small one. Did you have to get it made and if so do you have any drawings. Others may find the drawings and how you attached it to the crankshaft useful.

[LEO]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

Not trying to be picky but that suggests you increased the size of the crankshaft pulley and I don't think I have ever seen anything but the typical small one. Did you have to get it made and if so do you have any drawings. Others may find the drawings and how you attached it to the crankshaft useful.

No, I kept the crankshaft pulley the same, but experimented with Picador pulleys on the pump, obviously brackets have to be made to adjust the fitting of the pump, and it was a bit 'trial and error', but it all worked. The BMC engines are lovely small units and deserve 'Classic' status, sadly many now are in uncaring surroundings in London.

 

Funnily enough, the reverse problem was solved by Engineers with the current engine in my boat (2LW) small engine pulley, with add on pulley to drive alternator.

 

My Dad, wartime RAF, always said the standard answer for any tricky question asked in interviews was 'to introduce a suitable system of weights and pulleys' it seems to work..

 

 

[Janz]

All sound advice..!

Well I won a second hand refurbished pump from ebay & I'm waiting for it to arrive.

I only have another week at my mooring spot before I have to move, so I shall swap mine out... then at least whilst it's on the bench I'll still be able to drive. I have been working on the boat daily & I've been accepted into the local boating community down near lock 100.

Nice to know they can keep an eye out when I'm away from it.

I have cleaned out everything under my floor - bags of rotten wood, rubbish, rust & chunks of masonry. Only the paving slabs remain & they have been lifted, reset & the floor panels left up to dry everything out. I've also dried out the engine bilge in preparation for some engine work & a general tidy up of the wiring, which is a right mess. So, hopefully when my parts arrive, I'll be able to plug in the calorifier, sort out some proper cooling fluid & report back on how the cooling/heating performs.

I have bonded with my boat. I have been everywhere, seen everything & decided that it's all doable... it's a keeper!

👍

[Janz]

I kept all the masonry in two recycling bins so I haven't actually messed with the ballast. They were useful to place on each side to bale out the engine bilge. Now it's all dry down there (well, not under two inches of water), I want to clean & paint under there but I might as well wait for the weather to improve. Question is, how on earth do people clean a boat engine bay? Obviously harsh chemicals are out, seeing as they will all end up eventually being pumped into the canal & soap & water won't cut it in this engine bay... not with forty years of greasy grime & filth to contend with.

[MtB]

1 hour ago, Janz said:

Obviously harsh chemicals are out, seeing as they will all end up eventually being pumped into the canal & soap & water won't cut it in this engine bay... not with forty years of greasy grime & filth to contend with.

 

 

I have to say, I was concerned by your comment earlier about pumping out the engine bilge and hoping that wasn't into the canal.

 

It is not considered acceptable to pump engine bilge water into the canal as it might be oil or antifreeze-contaminated. Engine bilge pumps are a BSS fail. Just so you know.

Edited February 12, 2022 by MtB

[Janz]

I do have an engine bilge pump but it's offline. Either that or it won't kick in unless submerged. There is only two or three inches of water down there at any one time. All my bilge water has been baled into buckets & I have a forty litre plastic container two thirds full of what looks like grease water. They say water doesn't mix with oil... well I've been driving about with this thing for nearly two weeks & I haven't seen any separation.

I do have a moral compass & I wouldn't dump stuff like that. If it does eventually separate I'll siphon out the water & take the oil sludge to the tip.

I was gonna use my shower pump that wasn't working but I saw how much they are new, so after fixing it I wasn't keen on using it to pump the bilge out. It's a Whale Gulper... a 'Gucci bit of kit.'

The other pump idea i had was using my old Jabsco as a dedicated bilge pump that once fixed, will run off my spare pulley space. That's still a plan but it will run into a barrel.

[MtB]

22 minutes ago, Janz said:

I do have a moral compass & I wouldn't dump stuff like that.

 

I thought you would have, but as someone new to the canals I was just thinking you probably didn't know there are actual rules saying you must not do it, hence my heads up. 

 

There are plenty on the canals with no moral compass too, for whom there are the rules which they ignore. You will slowly begin to notice them about! 

[David Mack]

32 minutes ago, Janz said:

 

I was gonna use my shower pump that wasn't working but I saw how much they are new, so after fixing it I wasn't keen on using it to pump the bilge out. It's a Whale Gulper... a 'Gucci bit of kit.'

The other pump idea i had was using my old Jabsco as a dedicated bilge pump that once fixed, will run off my spare pulley space. That's still a plan but it will run into a barrel.

If you have 240V available use a wet and dry vacuum cleaner to suck out the last of the dirty bilge water.

£40 from screwfix.

[Janz]

Loool..! Yeah, I noticed them on my way down from Herts, or rather the rubbish they left behind. I was quite lucky when I arrived in Rickmansworth, to be able to get rid of all my rubbish at Batchworth lock. There are a bunch of CRT bins behind the Premier Inn...👍

[Janz]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

If you have 240V available use a wet and dry vacuum cleaner to suck out the last of the dirty bilge water.

£40 from screwfix.

I do. It's only 500w but I have a small 4T generator to run tools. Thanks, I shall have a look at that. Been living in Screwfix & Toolstation lately but their 3/8s inch plumbing fittings are getting rare...

[Janz]

On 10/02/2022 at 14:52, Tony Brooks said:

1. Tempest seemed to be the "official" BMC mariniser and they took over from Newage.

 

2. The engine is heat exchanger cooled. the only difference between the normal installation and yours is that that pump would water through a hull skin fitting, circulate it through the heat exchanger and possibly a gearbox oil cooler and then inject it into the exhaust or maybe direct through another skin fitting.  Yours, for some reason and according to your initial description has the heat exchanger between the two skin tanks rather than before the first tank.

 

3. You would do better to use the calorifier circuit (that has nothing to do with that pump) to heat the radiator but that involves a lot more antifreeze. Put the radiator after the calorifier. The calorifier take off pint is the blue hexagon shown in one of your photos at the back of the head top face.

 

I fear this pump (raw water) circuit is likely to run too cool for either the calorifier or radiator because there is no thermostat on that circuit controlling the water flow.

 

PS. On another pump topic. I think the rubber impeller on that pump is driven by a headless stainless screw (say 3 to 4mm) through the impeller and a hole in the shaft. The position of the pulley on the shaft for a BMC1.5 normally prevents you pulling the shaft and impeller back far enough to allow you to remove the screw so the pulley has to come off to change the impeller.  Always change the screw (a new one normally comes with the new impeller because they do fret in the hole until they snap.

 

FWIW your drive belt looks rather tight to me and that will accentuate any wear in the body. The pump will still drive with more slack that you will feel happy with, better more slack than less.

Hi Tony, my pump has arrived & I must now do the packing. Which way round does the 'top hat' bush go, please?

Flange to the gland or the other way?

Thanks...

[Tony Brooks]

As I always used ordinary gland packing I am not sure but I think flange to the nut if yu are calling the packing "the bush". Otherwise I can't think of any bush in those pumps.

[Janz]

This way round?

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Janz said:

This way round?

 

Ah, its a pusher, no the other way round. The gland looks a bit over packed to me so might cause difficulties getting the pusher to enter the body. I normally advise you leave the packing a coupe om mm below the body so the pusher can be centralized more easily. This will be more important on the stern gland.