Battery Replacement proceedure...

[Hartlebury lad]

Afternoon all....

 

My ten (yes ten) year old batteries are long overdue to be replaced (4 x 110ah Platinums) - non liveaboard. 

 

My rigid daily routine of being power conservation obsessed is now a bit of a chore. They read 12.1/12.2 each morning, but deplete quickly down near that value after a full days cruising within an hour or two (fridge on, all led boat) I have been threatening to change them for a few years! Getting four to fit the battery bay is more important than changing the spec. 

 

What's the disconnection and reconnection routine for this set up. I have numbered the terminals on the pic. the main switch panel is on the left, out of shot.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Hartlebury lad

[Alan de Enfield]

Presumably No4 is the negative feed if so disconnect that one first.

Then disconnect the positive feed (No5)

 

You can then disassemble the bank in any way / order you want. Suggest you lay a cloth over all other terminals other than the one you are working on, once disconnected, cover that one with the cloth and uncover the next terminal.

 

What you are trying to avoid is any loose (connected at one end) leads flopping about and shorting across another battery, and / or you touching another terminal with a spanner whilst losening a terminal.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Tony Brooks]

I would add to what Alan said, to avoid a rare damaging occurrence related to where in the circuit the master switch is connected. Turn off the maser switch and ensure ALL electrical equipment is turned off at its main switch before doing any disconnecting. This is just a couple of simple precautions on just in case basis. I have never seen or experience the problem it is designed to negate but others say they have - and I don't really understand how it can happen, but better safe then sorry.

[Hartlebury lad]

Thanks,Lots of old socks can be put into use! I presume the master switch on the panel should be off. 

Presumably, refit by  finishing off with 5 (live), and lastly 4 (neg)then?

Ha, thanks Tony, simultaneous post!

 

[David Mack]

25 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Presumably No4 is the negative feed if so disconnect that one first.

But what is the smaller black wire connected to terminal no. 1?

[Martin Nicholas]

Wrap the terminals of the dead batteries with duct tape before you physically take them out. Weigh them in with your local scrapper, you might get £?? each.

 

Keep the terminal caps of your new ones, they will come in handy one day - see above.

Edited February 7, 2022 by Martin Nicholas
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[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But what is the smaller black wire connected to terminal no. 1?

 

There is a similar red wire on T5 - they are both on crocodile clips so I am guessing (assuming ?) they are something like an incorrectly wired and connected battery charger.

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

 Weigh them in with your local scrapper, you might get £?? each.

 

I recently got £10 each (collected) for my 110ah batteries and £25 each (collected) for my 230Ah batteries,

Edited February 7, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[cuthound]

Make sure you remove (or tape up with insulating tape) any finger rings and remove any watches and medallions before starting work. Then use ring or open ended spanners wrapped in insulating tape. Even a relatively flat battery can inflict deep burns if you accidentally short it.

[David Mack]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There is a similar red wire on T5 - they are both on crocodile clips so I am guessing (assuming ?) they are something like an incorrectly wired and connected battery charger.

I could see the red croc clip on T5, but the photo is too dark on my screen to see how the black wire is connected to T1.

[Hartlebury lad]

40 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

There is a similar red wire on T5 - they are both on crocodile clips so I am guessing (assuming ?) they are something like an incorrectly wired and connected battery charger.

 

 

 

 

I recently got £10 each (collected) for my 110ah batteries and £25 each (collected) for my 230Ah batteries,

 

 

The other two wires are from a small folding solar panel kept on the roof - are you suggesting they are incorrectly connected? I have been using it for about 5 years! Not brilliant,

but every bit helps!

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said:

 

 

The other two wires are from a small folding solar panel kept on the roof - are you suggesting they are incorrectly connected? I have been using it for about 5 years! Not brilliant,

but every bit helps!

 

Only in as much as :

1) Crocodile clips should not be used, cut the clips off and use ring terminals correctly fitted to the battery studs.

2) You are connecting them to the same battery - you should be putting then at opposite ends of the bank - as (hopefully) you have with the supply leads (Red on T5 and Black on T4)

3) Where is the fuse ? (should be within 'inches' of the battery terminal - as close as possible).

Edited February 7, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[Bee]

I take the boat batteries home in autumn and back to the boat again in spring, this incolves a Dover - Calais trip. Also in the car is paraffim, white spirit, paint and Calor gas cylinders and the dog. A nasty short circuit across terminals on the ferry would be a Bad Thing. I cut 1" bits of rubber heater hose up and push them on the terminals then make absolutely cartain that they are covered with all sorts of luggage without zips, buttons or anything that a volt might find a way through., 

[Mike on the Wey]

2 hours ago, Bee said:

I take the boat batteries home in autumn and back to the boat again in spring, this incolves a Dover - Calais trip. Also in the car is paraffim, white spirit, paint and Calor gas cylinders and the dog. A nasty short circuit across terminals on the ferry would be a Bad Thing. I cut 1" bits of rubber heater hose up and push them on the terminals then make absolutely cartain that they are covered with all sorts of luggage without zips, buttons or anything that a volt might find a way through., 

I know this is off-topic, but is that actually allowed on a channel ferry? We used to go to the Isle of Wight each year; gas cylinders could only be carried in a designated location in a trailer tent or caravan, never in a car, and had to be declared.    

[Rob-M]

1 hour ago, Mike on the Wey said:

I know this is off-topic, but is that actually allowed on a channel ferry? We used to go to the Isle of Wight each year; gas cylinders could only be carried in a designated location in a trailer tent or caravan, never in a car, and had to be declared.    

We used to carry gas cylinders in the car when we camped on the IoW.  They used to give us a sticker we had to stick on the car to show it had gas cylinders in it.

[David Mack]

5 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Only in as much as :

1) Crocodile clips should not be used, cut the clips off and use ring terminals correctly fitted to the battery studs.

2) You are connecting them to the same battery - you should be putting then at opposite ends of the bank - as (hopefully) you have with the supply leads (Red on T5 and Black on T4)

3) Where is the fuse ? (should be within 'inches' of the battery terminal - as close as possible).

The current configuration is also a BSS failure.

[blackrose]

 

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The current configuration is also a BSS failure.

 

I was going to suggest drawing a simple diagram and numbering the battery terminals. Then using cable ties to bundle the cables from each terminal together stick a label on each bundle with number of the battery terminal they came from. 

 

This would make it much easier to put the cables back on the terminals they came from on the new batteries. 

 

However, if there's a problem with the cable configuration then perhaps that's not going to work.

[Hartlebury lad]

Thanks for all the comments and observations, particularly from Alan whose tips are welcome.

I didnt know the configuration was a BSS issue? It was done under the previous owner and has passed two BSS exams under my ownership ....

[jonathanA]

 

2 minutes ago, Hartlebury lad said:

Thanks for all the comments and observations, particularly from Alan whose tips are welcome.

I didnt know the configuration was a BSS issue? It was done under the previous owner and has passed two BSS exams under my ownership ....

 

I think some are concerned about your use of Croc clips.  That only applies if they connect permanent wiring to the batteries. In your case your little solar panel is not a permanently installed thing (I'm assuming)

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, Hartlebury lad said:

Thanks for all the comments and observations, particularly from Alan whose tips are welcome.

I didnt know the configuration was a BSS issue? It was done under the previous owner and has passed two BSS exams under my ownership ....

The BSS won't worry if you have less than optimal interconnections between your batteries. But not having a fuse or circuit breaker on the solar connection is a BSS fail.

[Ronaldo47]

It's a good idea to apply a smear of ordinary  Vaseline (not lubricating grease!) to the lugs/posts before connecting them up as this will help protect them from corrosion. Vaseline does does not affect the electrical resistance. 

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Ronaldo47 said:

It's a good idea to apply a smear of ordinary  Vaseline (not lubricating grease!) to the lugs/posts before connecting them up as this will help protect them from corrosion. Vaseline does does not affect the electrical resistance. 

 

it certainly does in my personal experience!

 

Back when I was 18 with my first car this advice was often seen in the car mags too so I tried it. Car would not start afterwards as using my Avo meter I found the Vaseline WAS affecting the electrical resistance. I spent ages getting it all off the lead battery pillars and terminal clamps before the engine would turn over again. 

 

Just a data point of one and lots of people disagree this can happen, but this was my experience and ever since, I've kept Vaseline well away from all my battery terminals. Nor do I understand the perceived need to 'protect them from corrosion'. It is a non-problem in my personal experience, my battery terminals never corrode anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2022 by MtB
Remove redundant words

[Tony Brooks]

If you don't want to use Vaseline then buy some terminal dressing from a Halfords etc.  If it caused the problems Mike experienced then the Military would not have supplied it. I think their designation was PX8 but stand to be corrected. It is probably not a so vital to use it a sit once was because the sealing between the battery/cell lid and post seems to be better/far more reliable.

 

In days gone by it was very common to see batteries that had grown white, grey, or yellow "fur" around the post and clamp. This was, and is, often caused by battery acid creeping up between the cell lid and post. The other cause is excess gassing caused by a cell fault or excess charging voltage. Another effect of the acid is to cause a hard black deposit to form on the lead post surface between the post and clamp. This forms an insulating layer so even if you clean the fur off you still can't start the engine. This deposit is really hard. If you scrape the lead with a knife blade it normally makes little sound but with the deposit it feels and sounds like you are scraping along some steel. Some times it can be really difficult to scrape of abrade the deposit off the terminal but it has to be done. This is more common on the negative post. To minimize the chances of this happening the general advice is to use sand paper (not emery for some reason) or a blade to clean the post and inside the clamp to  bright metal and then dress with a terminal dressing. The dressing that oozes out when it is tightened be smeared over the outside of the terminal and worked into any exposed conductors where the cable insulation has shrunk.

 

Be careful with tightening, although the clamp bolt/screw needs to be tight, because it is all too easy to apply enough force to the clamp bolt to break the post away from the cell lid.

 

Now, as I was not there and as Mike is a very practical type I am mystified as to the cause of what he experienced. I can only conclude either the post was still corroded or the clamping force was not enough. The latter used to be common when the battery cable clamp was a tapered lead cap that fitted over the post. Over the years those caps stretched so it was just the screw and top of the cap that made any sort of contact. As this is Mike we are talking about I simply can not believe he swapped the positive and negative clamps around but that is a far from uncommon cause of not starting after battery work because a positive clamp will often not reduce in diameter enough to tighten properly onto the smaller negative post. On very old batteries excess regular cleaning can lead to undersized posts.

 

In my view cleaning and  dressing the post and screw takes little time, often uses a product many already have, and helps avoid an electrical failure.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Tony Brooks

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

In days gone by it was very common to see batteries that had grown white, grey, or yellow "fur" around the post and clamp. This was, and is, often caused by battery acid creeping up between the cell lid and post.

 

"Those were the days"

A couple of times per year pouring a kettle of boing water over the terminals to get rid of the 'fungus', and what a 'bitter' smell it was as it washed away - no doubt as it ran down inside the car-wing it would sit and gently corrode the wing away.

[Martin Nicholas]

Has someone mentioned that the terminal posts (+ & -) are different sizes? It is possible to coerce the wrong connector onto the right post, but it don't make very good contact then.

 

Buy batteries with L-blade terminals if you can.

 

Since the invention of the o-ring, batteries never seem to leak around the terminals and with modern sealed/low maintenance batteries, any leakage anywhere says they are broken.

 

I did a very crude experiment to test the effectiveness of terminal grease, I got about a 20% improvement in resistance when two terminals were connected and torqued up. I used the Liqui Moly grease - available online. Now - today in fact - I'm assembling a high current system and using the grease on all the joints.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Martin Nicholas
-

[Tony Brooks]

58 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

 

Buy batteries with L-blade terminals if you can.

 

No don't. They are are even easier to rip out of  the lid that round posts and they still need cleaning and dressing.  The best arrangement are probably the machine screws that got through eye terminals straight onto the top of a pad where the post would be.