Lithium hybrid set up help required

[rusty69]

Just now, MtB said:

 

 

Oh that reminds me, prior to flogging the other boat I was hatching a plan to install two of the highly configurable Overkill BMSs in series,  provide exactly this function. One I would set to do the day-to-day controlling, and the other given more extreme settings (e.g. lower and higher disconnect voltages etc) to step in if the main day-to-day BMS fails. 

 

So the operating envelope of the day-to-day BMS lies wholly inside the (larger) backup BMS envelope.

 

The main problem with this I can imagine would be getting one's phone to look at the D2D BMS with Bluetooth, not the backup one. 

 

 

 

 

That actually sounds like a cunning plan on the face of it. The bluetooth module can be a bit temperamental, in my experience, so yeah, two are likely to be a PITA even if you use two devices to interrogate them.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

 

 

I lasted 2 days on the 12volt boating group and then got banned for suggesting that a refractometer was in many ways an easier way to measure battery sg than a floaty thing. Dissent from the groupthink is not allowed.

I don't know, but would suggest you were on the wrong 12 volt group, there were two.

I have often mentioned using a refractometer for SG reading, with the number of batteries I checked every trip I would never have finished using a hydrometer.

[MtB]

4 hours ago, rusty69 said:

Oh, which supplier you get it from?

 

I might, possibly, have ordered two from different suppliers. But don't tell anybody.

 

One from renogy.com who seem to be trying very hard to dominate the cheapo market here and everywhere, and one from lifebatteries.co.uk

 

The Renogy one has arrived, and so far I'm not impressed. 

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I might, possibly, have ordered two from different suppliers. But don't tell anybody.

 

One from renogy.com who seem to be trying very hard to dominate the cheapo market here and everywhere, and one from lifebatteries.co.uk

 

The Renogy one has arrived, and so far I'm not impressed. 

That backs up what the guy on marineknow how think of renogy. The guy on facebook rates the lifebatteries one. Interestingly, I just watched a tear down of the Fogstar one. The guy reviewing it seemed to think it was good, but the stand out point for me was the foam on the BMS. Can't be good for heat dissipation, but I suppose that is the problem chucking all this kit in a small box.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by rusty69

[rusty69]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

The Renogy one has arrived, and so far I'm not impressed. 

Here you go, as I was busy condensing the entire internet, I came across this:

 

Quote

Caution:I don’t often do this as I hate to ever advise against any manufacturer but there is one manufacturer that we would urge a very strong caution on and that is Renogy. We’ve not seen a manufacturer with this many failure prone products in 30+ years in this market. Their failure rate is far too high for us to even consider making a recommendation. Consider yourself warned about buying Renogy.

Source:

 

https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-lifepo4-be-an-educated-consumer/

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Here you go, as I was busy condensing the entire internet, I came across this:

 

Source:

 

https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-lifepo4-be-an-educated-consumer/

 

Dammit, but thanks. I've spent so long cogitating and not buying that I decided to just make a decision and place an order (well two) and see how it (they) turn(s) out. The Renogy website seems well put together but it looks like they are following the Worcester boilers method, of putting all their effort into marketing and bigging themelves up in the media whilst selling crocks of shyte built with every expense spared! 

 

But mebbe the Life Batteries gambe will work out better...

 

Praps I'll just tear down the Renogy one to get the cells out and DIY it. or I might send it back if I can think of a credible reason other than marinehowto.com says its rubbish

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Here you go, as I was busy condensing the entire internet, I came across this:

 

Why are you bothering it has already been done.

 

Douglas Adams said it was the answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

 

"42"

 

 

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Dammit, but thanks. I've spent so long cogitating and not buying that I decided to just make a decision and place an order (well two) and see how it (they) turn(s) out. The Renogy website seems well put together but it looks like they are following the Worcester boilers method, of putting all their effort into marketing and bigging themelves up in the media whilst selling crocks of shyte built with every expense spared! 

 

But mebbe the Life Batteries gambe will work out better...

 

Praps I'll just tear down the Renogy one to get the cells out and DIY it. or I might send it back if I can think of a credible reason other than marinehowto.com says its rubbish

I'd be interested on your opinion of the lifebatteries offering when you get a chance to look properly.

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Why are you bothering it has already been done.

 

Douglas Adams said it was the answer to the meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

 

"42"

 

 

 

Point of Order M'Lud. 

 

I don't think he said that AT ALL. 

 

42 is the answer to the "Ultimate Question". Y'know, the question of life, the universe and everything. 

 

So what IS the Ultimate Question? This was so difficult to determine that they built an enormous computer to work out what it is. And they called that computer "the Earth"...

 

All IIRC. 

 

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I'd be interested on your opinion of the lifebatteries offering when you get a chance to look properly.

That is what I have

[rusty69]

4 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

That is what I have

Then I would be interested in your opinion too.

 

ETA, Though I spose its quite difficult to form an opinion if you haven't done a tear down.

Edited December 10, 2022 by rusty69

[MtB]

7 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I'd be interested on your opinion of the lifebatteries offering when you get a chance to look properly.

 

It hasn't arrived yet! *

 

But yes I'll post my opinion once I've arrived at it.

 

 

* Neither my opinion nor the battery.

 

 

[rusty69]

Just now, MtB said:

 

It hasn't arrived yet! *

 

But yes I'll post my opinion once I've arrived at it.

 

 

* Neither my opinion nor the battery.

 

 

Great. Thank you.

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Then I would be interested in your opinion too.

 

ETA, Though I spose its quite difficult to form an opinion if you haven't done a tear down.

I have nothing to compare it with. It works, in 10 years time I can tell you how well its aged

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have nothing to compare it with. It works, in 10 years time I can tell you how well its aged

Fair enough.

[MtB]

3 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I have nothing to compare it with. It works, in 10 years time I can tell you how well its aged

 

I bet you forget....

 

 

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I bet you forget....

 

 

I've set a reminder in my calender. If I don't last 10 years I have tasked my ancestors with coming on here to find out the answer. 

 

Hmmm. Maybe ancestor is the wrong word, but I can't be bothered to find the right word. 

Edited December 10, 2022 by rusty69

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

It hasn't arrived yet! *

 

But yes I'll post my opinion once I've arrived at it.

 

 

* Neither my opinion nor the battery.

 

 

 

 

Actually there is one thing. On their website there is an invitation to open a chat convo, so I did. I asked if the battery I wanted was in stock as the shop didn't say. Other batteries were specifically labelled 'In stock" but not the one I wanted. No response. 24 hours later, still no response at which point I decided they must have gone out of business so I ordered the equivalent from Renogy. 

 

ANOTHER 24 hours later I got a response confirming they had it in stock. 

 

Then I ordered a different one 

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I've set a reminder in my calender. If I don't last 10 years I have tasked my ancestors with coming on here to find out the answer. 

 

Hmmm. Maybe ancestor is the wrong word, but I can't e bothered to find the right word. 

 

Descendents? 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by MtB
Speeling.

[Jon57]

57 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I might, possibly, have ordered two from different suppliers. But don't tell anybody.

 

One from renogy.com who seem to be trying very hard to dominate the cheapo market here and everywhere, and one from lifebatteries.co.uk

 

The Renogy one has arrived, and so far I'm not 

49 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Dammit, but thanks. I've spent so long cogitating and not buying that I decided to just make a decision and place an order (well two) and see how it (they) turn(s) out. The Renogy website seems well put together but it looks like they are following the Worcester boilers method, of putting all their effort into marketing and bigging themelves up in the media whilst selling crocks of shyte built with every expense spared! 

 

But mebbe the Life Batteries gambe will work out better...

 

Praps I'll just tear down the Renogy one to get the cells out and DIY it. or I might send it back if I can think of a credible reason other than marinehowto.com says its rubbish

Ed shires thinks they aren't very goog either. 😭

 

[gbclive]

I’ve been considering going hybrid for some time.

The impression I have is that Mark at Life Batteries is supportive of the hybrid system and will actually help in setting up the BMS depending on your particular situation and your preference for how much of the capacity you want to utilise. He is also known for standing behind the warrantee, even when someone has done something daft. 
On the other hand, Frogstar, who also have a good reputation, unfortunately state that their 10 year warranty will be invalidated if you change any of the BMS settings.
So I plan to go with Life batteries to supply a 12v 200AH Bluetooth LiFePO4.

Not the cheapest, but overall seems the best choice to me for a hybrid system.

[Peanut]

6 hours ago, MtB said:

Praps I'll just tear down the Renogy one to get the cells out and DIY it. or I might send it back if I can think of a credible reason other than marinehowto.com says its rubbish

 

No problem, under the Distance Selling Regulations you can return it within fourteen days for no reason apart from that it is not what you expected.  You will need to inform them first.

 

[MtB]

5 hours ago, Peanut said:

No problem, under the Distance Selling Regulations you can return it within fourteen days for no reason apart from that it is not what you expected.  You will need to inform them first.

 

Well there is quite a large element of CBA at play here. As long as the thing works, I'll keep it. My main dissatisfaction was the way the app for reading the BMS was failing to detect the battery and connect to the BMS. I've done that now. It was actually detecting but only displays a screen requiring one presses "OK" for about one second. Then the screen disappears and is replaced with an "Invalid serial number" error message. I discovered that by being quick and pressing OK during the one second that first screen is available, it connects. 

 

Pretty poor show but packing up and lugging a 20kg battery to the post office then hoping the refund arrives and endless quibbling when it doesn't, is all too much trouble given it now seems to work. 

 

The BMS display is pretty poor too. Nothing is configurable (understandably but my main dissatisfaction is the cell voltages are displayed to only one decimal place. Again, I can see why they do this as the three decimal places which would be nice are bound to generate endless consumer complaints they don't all precisely match.

 

 

[rusty69]

10 hours ago, gbclive said:

I’ve been considering going hybrid for some time.

The impression I have is that Mark at Life Batteries is supportive of the hybrid system and will actually help in setting up the BMS depending on your particular situation and your preference for how much of the capacity you want to utilise. He is also known for standing behind the warrantee, even when someone has done something daft. 
On the other hand, Frogstar, who also have a good reputation, unfortunately state that their 10 year warranty will be invalidated if you change any of the BMS settings.
So I plan to go with Life batteries to supply a 12v 200AH Bluetooth LiFePO4.

Not the cheapest, but overall seems the best choice to me for a hybrid system.

That's interesting. I can't see that information on their website. Do you need to ask them directly? 

 

Also you say "if you change them". Is it possible for the user to change the settings on the fogstar and lifebatteries BMS or is it a password protected option only available to the seller? 

[rusty69]

Many of these BMS's tend to switch on/off the negative supply to the battery in a cut off situation. Some of them make this connection with more than one conductor. So, what is the wisdom of having a fuse in one or more of these connections? Presumably, if a system has a large load, via an inverter,say that exceeds that of the BMS, but is within the spec of the existing cabling/fuse, the BMS should shut down before one or more of the cables acts as a fuse.

 

Probably a silly question, but its early, and my brain isn't working yet.

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, rusty69 said:

  before one or more of the cables acts as a fuse.

 

Most cables should be protected with fuses