Jump to content

Winter Mooring - CRT miles per year still needed?


Monnie

Featured Posts

Does the 21 miles mean in one direction only, e.g not back tracking on where you have been? or could you do say for example 15 miles in one direction and then turn around and do another 10 miles where you came from? Any clarity would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Monnie said:

Does the 21 miles mean in one direction only, e.g not back tracking on where you have been? or could you do say for example 15 miles in one direction and then turn around and do another 10 miles where you came from? Any clarity would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

 

As David implies, this 21 mile thing gets chatted about but it is not mentioned on the CRT website as far as I know.

 

Can you clarify please where you are getting this requirement from? 

 

Thanks.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

As David implies, this 21 mile thing gets chatted about but it is not mentioned on the CRT website as far as I know.

 

Can you clarify please where you are getting this requirement from? 

 

Thanks.

 

 

If it helps :

 

London Enforcement Manager Simon Cadek sent an email to a boater who was warned that they were on course for failing their six month restricted licence, telling them what they would need to do to "pass".

When we are looking at boat movements we are looking for characteristics of bona fide navigation, these fall roughly into these categories:

· Range: by range we mean the furthest points a boat has travelled on the network, not merely the total distance travelled. While the BW act does not stipulate what that distance is the Trust has previously said that anyone travelling a range of less than say 20 miles (32km) would struggle to satisfy the Trust that they are engaged in bona fide navigation and that normally we would expect a greater range.

. For the avoidance of doubt, a small number of long journeys over a short period of time, followed or preceded by cruising in a small are of the network would not generally satisfy the Trust that you are engaged in bona fide navigation.

· Overstaying: we look to see how often boats overstay, either the 14 day limit on the main length of the canal, or shorter periods where local signage dictates, for example short stay visitor moorings.

While we are flexible with the occasional overstay from most boaters due to breakdown, illness or other emergencies, we will look at the overall pattern balanced with range and movement pattern in order to form a view.

Overstay reminders are issued when a boat is seen in the same area for more than 14 days. While we are unable to say how far you need to travel each time you move, we would advise that you normally travel further than a few km each time.

This will prevent you from getting reminders and depending on the length of other trips you make and how many times you turn back on yourself, should increase your overall range over the course of your licence.

 

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

If it helps :

 

London Enforcement Manager Simon Cadek sent an email to a boater who was warned that they were on course for failing their six month restricted licence, telling them what they would need to do to "pass".

When we are looking at boat movements we are looking for characteristics of bona fide navigation, these fall roughly into these categories:

· Range: by range we mean the furthest points a boat has travelled on the network, not merely the total distance travelled. While the BW act does not stipulate what that distance is the Trust has previously said that anyone travelling a range of less than say 20 miles (32km) would struggle to satisfy the Trust that they are engaged in bona fide navigation and that normally we would expect a greater range.

. For the avoidance of doubt, a small number of long journeys over a short period of time, followed or preceded by cruising in a small are of the network would not generally satisfy the Trust that you are engaged in bona fide navigation.

· Overstaying: we look to see how often boats overstay, either the 14 day limit on the main length of the canal, or shorter periods where local signage dictates, for example short stay visitor moorings.

While we are flexible with the occasional overstay from most boaters due to breakdown, illness or other emergencies, we will look at the overall pattern balanced with range and movement pattern in order to form a view.

Overstay reminders are issued when a boat is seen in the same area for more than 14 days. While we are unable to say how far you need to travel each time you move, we would advise that you normally travel further than a few km each time.

This will prevent you from getting reminders and depending on the length of other trips you make and how many times you turn back on yourself, should increase your overall range over the course of your licence.

 

Thanks, saved me looking for it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok thanks. 

 

So because Simon Cadek supposedly sent an email to some anonymous boater mentioning 20 miles is not enough, it has been assumed that 21 miles IS enough, yes?

 

Ooookkkkaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Monnie said:

Does the 21 miles mean in one direction only, e.g not back tracking on where you have been? or could you do say for example 15 miles in one direction and then turn around and do another 10 miles where you came from? Any clarity would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

 

CRT can't specify a distance (its not in their legal powers) but they can and have (after pressure from boaters) given "guidance" on what is unlikely to "satisfy the board" and its a cruising range rather than a distance. Winter moorings don't really change this.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, nicknorman said:

Why sign up to be a continuous cruiser (agree to use the boat bona fide for navigation throughout the period) if you don’t want to cruise any more than you absolutely have to? It seems dishonourable.

You've heard of trolling? Ten 🙄 posts in two years, best not to feed 😒

Edited by LadyG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks so much for the information. I am definately not a troll!! I am a genuine boater doing my first winter on the cut and travelling with some lovely people! Just thinking about what I will do next winter as most likely I will take a winter mooring. As I do not fancy doing the locks on my own. 

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Monnie said:

Thanks so much for the information. I am definately not a troll!! I am a genuine boater doing my first winter on the cut and travelling with some lovely people! Just thinking about what I will do next winter as most likely I will take a winter mooring. As I do not fancy doing the locks on my own. 

Good for you, never mind the miseries that like to poke, some believe quantity means quality.    

 

Doing locks on your own in the dark and ice of winter is certainly hazardous, you could also consider temporarily mooring in a marina for the winter, a bit more expensive but with more advantages.  Aways supposing you could find one of course, the scarce moorings seem to be rapidly dwindling. Enjoy cruising for now. 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Imagine a circle on a map around your boat's location.  Imagine the diameter of that circle is 20 miles across.  That's a 20 mile range.

 

I'm not sure I agree with that - I believe that the 'Range' is actually a radius rather than the diameter.

Take a rifle which has a 'range' of 1 mile.

Stand pointing North and the bullet will travel 1 mile, now turn and face South, and the bullet will travel 1 mile.

 

The range in both cases is 1 mile, but the circle has a diameter of 2 miles.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I'm not sure I agree with that - I believe that the 'Range' is actually a radius rather than the diameter.

Take a rifle which has a 'range' of 1 mile.

Stand pointing North and the bullet will travel 1 mile, now turn and face South, and the bullet will travel 1 mile.

 

The range in both cases is 1 mile, but the circle has a diameter of 2 miles.

That maybe true for a rifle, but when a wild animal is said to hunt within a 20 mile range, they mean my example above.  This only goes to illustrate more why CRT have removed any mention of 20 miles or range.  It was probably irresponsible for you to post what you did about it, as it just reignites the confusion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Dora gave a very good explanation earlier.

 

Bear in mind also that CRT have limited resources so tend to concentrate them on the worst offenders. i.e. those who just moor up and stay put for months on end. Then those who only cruise about in a vary small range. Make a genuine stab at actually cruising around the system and they probably will leave you alone even if your range is only 19 miles. They also send reams of warning letters and/or emails explaining n to you where you are going wrong (e.g. that letter Alan quoted), before getting to the point of taking any meaningful action against you.

 

Once you have got yourself on their radar as a non-compliant boater though, their first step (beyond pestering you with letters/emails) will be to refuse you a 12 month license at your next renewal and offer you 6 month or three month licenses, with reviews of your cruising pattern before issuing. And if you still persist in not cruising over an acceptably large range they will refuse a license at all, then eventually send a crane and lift your boat out ... if they can find it!

 

So as you can imagine, it is a long drawn out process that seems to take years to get to the end point, during which a tiny subsection of boaters lead them a right merry dance, which doesn't endear them to the boaters who observe the rules. Hence the prickly replies here as it sounds as though you are fishing around for information about how to probe the limits of what is acceptable, and your intention might possibly be to cruise as little as you can get away with, rather than to embrace the generally accepted concept of not getting a mooring because you are continually cruising about.

 

 

 

 

Edited by MtB
To get rid of all the errors that only appear after pressing "Send"!
  • Greenie 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Monnie said:

Thanks so much for the information. I am definately not a troll!! I am a genuine boater doing my first winter on the cut and travelling with some lovely people! Just thinking about what I will do next winter as most likely I will take a winter mooring. As I do not fancy doing the locks on my own. 

Genuine boaters don't need to ask if 20 miles a year is enough. As another has said, you can easily do 20 miles in a day.

And if you are the only person on your boat, then you are probably going to have to do some locks on your own unless you stick to wide canals.  When I started boating, most people had cruisers 20 or 25 feet long, and it was common to share narrow locks with one or two others. Now most boats are 50 footish, opportunities to share narrow locks don't come up very often.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

That maybe true for a rifle, but when a wild animal is said to hunt within a 20 mile range, they mean my example above.  This only goes to illustrate more why CRT have removed any mention of 20 miles or range.  It was probably irresponsible for you to post what you did about it, as it just reignites the confusion.

 

Sorry, but I disagee again. The animals 'home' is the centre of a circle, it 'ranges' 20 miles in each direction, not 10 miles in each direction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, BWM said:

I can't imagine why 20 odd miles would be daunting to anyone, as it is not difficult to cover such a distance in a day!

 

Not been on the Rochdale then ?  or the HNC, or even some parts of the K&A   or any other canal with a lot of locks 😀

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Slow and Steady said:

If you CC you don't have a 'home' / centre for the imaginary circle.

 

Are you sure ? 

Many do have a very small operating circle around their 'home / work' area, hence the frequent question "how far must I travel to comply".

If you need to ask then you are not a bona-fide CCer, You are someone living on a boat looking to save the costs of housing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To the OP

If you don't want to do long distance cruising then find yourself a length of canal, about 25 miles long, and spread yourself out fairly evenly over that range, and move every 14 days.. In winter you could probably get away with moving over a shorter distance (or zero on a winter mooring), but then make sure you move well in the summer. Going for a real good long cruise in the summer would also probably help, but note that spending 10 months moving between your two favourite spots and then 2 months proper moving will not be good enough. If this is your first year boating then try extra hard to be good.

Keep a good record of what have done as the CRT spotting process is not comprehensive (its intended to spot the bad offenders at minimal cost, not to build a detailed record of every boater on the system).

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.