Aire and Calder - Fish v Barges

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

I was hoping that under water it would all be different and sub-surface Knottingley was an aquatic paradise. If the fish prefer hurling themselves in to spinning propellers, to living there, then not so.

 

To be fair to Knottingley the moorings are not all that bad we've stopped there a few times next to a nice wide open green space.

 

It was a short walk to the local Morrisons too.

 

But I think the town itself is a bit er well grim shall we say. Then so is Castleford but again the moorings are good and there used to be (?still is) an excellent chippy and hardware shop. And a huge barn affair not far from the moorings that sold just about everything (well not actually everything but important boating stuff like beer, wine, coal and wood).

 

As is often the case 'it can be grim up North'.

[fanshaft]

On 24/01/2022 at 16:19, Allan(nb Albert) said:

It was probably me started the discussion on Facebook when I posted a link  to a CRT press release dated 18 January -
https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/45204-18-jan-2022-canal-charity-investigates-fish-deaths-on-aire-calder-navigation.pdf

Ray T has already provided the "Parry reply" link Anne asked for.

Here is what the Angling Trust has posted on its website -

 

16 December - https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/16/fish-kills-on-the-aire-and-calder/?fbclid=IwAR1ZKOKIXQEhaPUeRTkETEUsO1y9S-El_5A1BeEdp8wQznUyWIryGVd1esk
22 December - https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/22/canal-and-rivers-trust-fail-to-halt-fish-kills-on-the-aire-and-calder/

24 December - https://anglingtrust.net/2021/12/24/angling-trust-welcome-ceos-assurances-over-barge-restrictions-on-the-aire-and-calder/
20 January -    https://anglingtrust.net/2022/01/20/canal-river-trust-suspend-fish-mincing-barge/

 

The Commercial Boat Owners Association appears not to have commented. Neither have the two Angling Clubs involved.

 

 

The Commercial Boat Operators Association has indeed commented with a press release to the waterway press as follows: 

"We are deeply disappointed that the Canal and River Trust has, without consultation, in effect shut the navigation on the Aire and Calder Navigation between Hull and Leeds so that barges cannot use it. Operators will lose their  livelihoods for a punitive 8 weeks and air pollution will increase because each 500 tonne  barge takes up to 25 lorries off the road, reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 75%, as well as NOX emissions and particulates .

 

The CRT's reason is to find out why fish are dying on that stretch, because anglers  have complained about the issue.  The CRT has known about it for 18 months.  The likely reason is a stream flowing into the canal which has caused severe silting. Barges are not killing the fish – the problem doesn’t happen anywhere else on the waterway network. CBOA calls on CRT to implement a solution rapidly.

At a time of increased concern about climate change, what sense does it make to bring the barge industry to a halt in this part of Yorkshire?"   Some barge movements are taking place, with monitoring and sampling of silt, water and dead fish on each occasion and these samples will be sent away to a lab for testing (about 10 day turnaround).  What is different about this short stretch of the A&CN is that it is very narrow and heavily silted.  Barge have made a channel through the silt and can navigate without difficulty but there is little room for the shoals of fish that apparently are attracted by the  nutrients in the water (ironically from an effluent drain) which is so much cleaner and cooler since the  closure of polluting industries and the Ferrybridge power stations (which warmed the water).  In terms of damage to the cills the barges currently used were built in 1967 to the maximum dimensions of the time - with a maximum draft of 2.5 metres (8ft 3 in) which allows a margin over the highest cill - so not an issue.  Barges were increasing draft after dredging but had not yet got to 2.5 metres.

 

 

[LadyG]

On 24/01/2022 at 19:26, Jen-in-Wellies said:

Perhaps existence for fish is so depressing in Knottingley they are deliberately throwing themselves in to the barge prop?

That would not surprise me, poor things getting hauled out and thrown back by the fish botherers. 

I'm sure it's not nice to be killed by sediment, a sort of drowning, but it is it so much worse than the end of thousands of tonnes of fish netted every day. I'm not a vegetarian, but I try to source meat and fish from best practice sources, and best practice does not involve snagging fish on hooks designed to keep them on the end of the line for 'sport', it's not sport, fish v man, what is that all about. 

Stopping cargo transport on the A&C as soon as some body complains, seems a bit OTT, we are talking about commerce, jobs, income v some guys with nothing better to do than dangle a rod and line in a heavily polluted waterway. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

I keep reading the title as Fish V Burgers

[JamesWoolcock]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I keep reading the title as Fish V Burgers

Not sure that they make burgers from the whole fish but just use their fingers.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

On 26/01/2022 at 15:48, fanshaft said:

The Commercial Boat Operators Association has indeed commented with a press release to the waterway press as follows: 

"We are deeply disappointed that the Canal and River Trust has, without consultation, in effect shut the navigation on the Aire and Calder Navigation between Hull and Leeds so that barges cannot use it. Operators will lose their  livelihoods for a punitive 8 weeks and air pollution will increase because each 500 tonne  barge takes up to 25 lorries off the road, reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 75%, as well as NOX emissions and particulates .

 

The CRT's reason is to find out why fish are dying on that stretch, because anglers  have complained about the issue.  The CRT has known about it for 18 months.  The likely reason is a stream flowing into the canal which has caused severe silting. Barges are not killing the fish – the problem doesn’t happen anywhere else on the waterway network. CBOA calls on CRT to implement a solution rapidly.

At a time of increased concern about climate change, what sense does it make to bring the barge industry to a halt in this part of Yorkshire?"   Some barge movements are taking place, with monitoring and sampling of silt, water and dead fish on each occasion and these samples will be sent away to a lab for testing (about 10 day turnaround).  What is different about this short stretch of the A&CN is that it is very narrow and heavily silted.  Barge have made a channel through the silt and can navigate without difficulty but there is little room for the shoals of fish that apparently are attracted by the  nutrients in the water (ironically from an effluent drain) which is so much cleaner and cooler since the  closure of polluting industries and the Ferrybridge power stations (which warmed the water).  In terms of damage to the cills the barges currently used were built in 1967 to the maximum dimensions of the time - with a maximum draft of 2.5 metres (8ft 3 in) which allows a margin over the highest cill - so not an issue.  Barges were increasing draft after dredging but had not yet got to 2.5 metres.

 

 

Sorry but have only just seen your post.

I have again checked on the CBOA website and still can't see this press release .,..

[john.k]

Arent the anglers responsible for any fish kills......are they so poor at  fishing they catch nothing?

[fanshaft]

12 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Sorry but have only just seen your post.

I have again checked on the CBOA website and still can't see this press release .,..

It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).

[Orwellian]

   So just one sided propaganda then?  3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:  It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).    3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:  It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).     

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Orwellian said:

   So just one sided propaganda then?  3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:  It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).    3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:  It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).     

 

 

But he did ONLY say it once !

[fanshaft]

8 minutes ago, Orwellian said:

   So just one sided propaganda then?  3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:  It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).    3 minutes ago, fanshaft said:  It's not on the website as that is a CBOA vehicle for promoting the positives of water freight to potential customers and decision makers as can be seen.   The statement has been made available to the local and waterway press on request.  CBOA, customer and member operators are working closely with the Trust with trial passages (next one planned for next week).     

I am not sure what the point is that is being made.  CBOA is a trade organisation which acts on behalf of its members to promote freight by water and to represent their interests - rather like the Rail Freight Group or British Marine Inland Boating.  

[Orwellian]

In which case you should amend the heading on your webpage to 'Recent selective good news ........ '        

[Allan(nb Albert)]

 I wonder if CBOA's abysmal showing in this situation is down to its officer responsible for Public Affairs and Marketing. He just happens to be an ex CRT trustee ...


 

[David Mack]

45 minutes ago, Orwellian said:

So just one sided propaganda then? 

Remarkably naive of you! Do you think any organisation puts out press releases which don't promote the organisation?

[fanshaft]

On 26/01/2022 at 15:48, fanshaft said:

The Commercial Boat Operators Association has indeed commented with a press release to the waterway press as follows: 

"We are deeply disappointed that the Canal and River Trust has, without consultation, in effect shut the navigation on the Aire and Calder Navigation between Hull and Leeds so that barges cannot use it. Operators will lose their  livelihoods for a punitive 8 weeks and air pollution will increase because each 500 tonne  barge takes up to 25 lorries off the road, reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 75%, as well as NOX emissions and particulates .

 

The CRT's reason is to find out why fish are dying on that stretch, because anglers  have complained about the issue.  The CRT has known about it for 18 months.  The likely reason is a stream flowing into the canal which has caused severe silting. Barges are not killing the fish – the problem doesn’t happen anywhere else on the waterway network. CBOA calls on CRT to implement a solution rapidly.

At a time of increased concern about climate change, what sense does it make to bring the barge industry to a halt in this part of Yorkshire?"   Some barge movements are taking place, with monitoring and sampling of silt, water and dead fish on each occasion and these samples will be sent away to a lab for testing (about 10 day turnaround).  What is different about this short stretch of the A&CN is that it is very narrow and heavily silted.  Barge have made a channel through the silt and can navigate without difficulty but there is little room for the shoals of fish that apparently are attracted by the  nutrients in the water (ironically from an effluent drain) which is so much cleaner and cooler since the  closure of polluting industries and the Ferrybridge power stations (which warmed the water).  In terms of damage to the cills the barges currently used were built in 1967 to the maximum dimensions of the time - with a maximum draft of 2.5 metres (8ft 3 in) which allows a margin over the highest cill - so not an issue.  Barges were increasing draft after dredging but had not yet got to 2.5 metres.

 

 

To clarify: this was not a 'Press Release' as such but a press statement in response to requests from the waterways and local press. 

 

On 02/02/2022 at 11:43, David Mack said:

Remarkably naive of you! Do you think any organisation puts out press releases which don't promote the organisation?

Thank you David!  We don't promote CBOA as such - it's a trade body - but we do promote freight by water obviously.  as an example we have just submitted evidence to the Infrastructure Commission pointing out that there are over 1000 miles of large scale commercial waterways in the UK which carry millions of tonnes of freight annually but could carry more - especially with some very modest investment compared that lavished on road and rail.

[fanshaft]

On 02/02/2022 at 11:41, Allan(nb Albert) said:

 I wonder if CBOA's abysmal showing in this situation is down to its officer responsible for Public Affairs and Marketing. He just happens to be an ex CRT trustee ...


 

On what basis is CBOA's response 'abysmal'?  CBOA officers (all voluntary) have been in close contact with senior management of CRT at Chief Executive and Director level, pressing for a speedy resolution to the problems,  as well as its local staff, CBOA member operators and their major customer to help with setting up trials (ongoing) to try and establish as quickly as possible plausible causes and solutions to the 'fish kill'.  In addition we have enlisted valuable support from and worked with organisations such as IWA, NABO, HNBC, and British Marine, to press our case as well as other organisations such as Action Yorkshire Transport, who between them have been very helpful.  We have also been in touch with elected representatives and others and we are grateful for the support and interest of all these bodies and individuals.   What else should CBOA be doing? 

The reference to our ex CRT Trustee officer is quite without justification.  As many will know John has been a tireless worker, almost entirely on a voluntary basis, for the inland waterways for some 60 years, with a special interest in waterway restoration. He was very much involved in helping to steer the 1968 Transport Act as it affected the waterways to a successful outcome and he later brought to the Trust welcome professional skills in finance and shipping, as well as a huge knowledge of the inland waterway system through extensive cruising, much of it on historic narrow boats.  His support for and work within CBOA both as a former chairman and in his current position has been of huge value and should not be underestimated.

[ditchcrawler]

It seems this is not the first case of fisher folk having boats banned. Just reading the Cotswold Canal Trust magazine, Trow and in the 1800 the Stroudwater Company stopped the Wyclif College scullers from turning their boats in "The Ocean" because the ores disturbed the fishing

[matty40s]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

It seems this is not the first case of fisher folk having boats banned. Just reading the Cotswold Canal Trust magazine, Trow and in the 1800 the Stroudwater Company stopped the Wyclif College scullers from turning their boats in "The Ocean" because the ores disturbed the fishing

What ores were they carrying??

[system 4-50]

9 hours ago, matty40s said:

What ores were they carrying??

whatever happened to be nandy?

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

whatever happened to be nandy?

Is that rhyming slang for randy rower, pulling whores (ores) ? 

A touch of the adult Edward Lear prose, perhaps?

Edited February 6, 2022 by LadyG

[PD1964]

@fanshaft Have just been on this stretch and Land and Water contractors are dredging it daily. Is this because of the fish situation and will the barges be running once dredged, do you know?

[fanshaft]

10 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

@fanshaft Have just been on this stretch and Land and Water contractors are dredging it daily. Is this because of the fish situation and will the barges be running once dredged, do you know?

Yes but the stretch was in the plan for dredging anyway.  Customer wishes us to restart as soon as possible, when dredging has progressed sufficiently, and that will be discussed with the regional operations manager, who is very supportive, on Tuesday .

[frangar]

17 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

Yes but the stretch was in the plan for dredging anyway.  Customer wishes us to restart as soon as possible, when dredging has progressed sufficiently, and that will be discussed with the regional operations manager, who is very supportive, on Tuesday .

Do let us know how you get on please. 

[PD1964]

49 minutes ago, fanshaft said:

Yes but the stretch was in the plan for dredging anyway.  Customer wishes us to restart as soon as possible, when dredging has progressed sufficiently, and that will be discussed with the regional operations manager, who is very supportive, on Tuesday .

Will be good to bump into them again on the Commercial Canals as always good to see the Exol Pride making waves👍

Edited August 27, 2022 by PD1964

[Waterway2go]

On 27/08/2022 at 09:16, fanshaft said:

Yes but the stretch was in the plan for dredging anyway.  Customer wishes us to restart as soon as possible, when dredging has progressed sufficiently, and that will be discussed with the regional operations manager, who is very supportive, on Tuesday .

Is there any news of the sand traffic to Leeds restarting?   Fusedale and Farndale both appeared briefly on AIS a week or so ago.