Heavily considering boating, but i dont know if im ready.

[Slow and Steady]

8 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

So much truth here.  Probably 80% or more of all boats sit festering away on their moorings, barely used or never used.  If their owners actually calculated how much it was costing them per hour they spend on the boat I bet they'd find it would be considerably cheaper to hire a boat now and then when they fancy going boating. If I wasn't a liveaboard there would be next to zero chance I'd own a boat.  I might consider joining a boat share though if I was retired.

Nor me, no way I could justify it. But then again I don't have £1M in the bank and these days a lot of people do!

[IanD]

43 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

So much truth here.  Probably 80% or more of all boats sit festering away on their moorings, barely used or never used.  If their owners actually calculated how much it was costing them per hour they spend on the boat I bet they'd find it would be considerably cheaper to hire a boat now and then when they fancy going boating. If I wasn't a liveaboard there would be next to zero chance I'd own a boat.  I might consider joining a boat share though if I was retired.

 

It certainly would be a lot cheaper, it's what I've done for many years.

 

The downside is that if you want to get a decent boat on particular dates and from a favoured location you have to book well in advance (sometimes the previous year), neither your arrangements nor those of any people you're going with can change, if you happen to hit the worst week for weather or stoppages that's tough, invariably there are things about the boat that you don't like, your arrival and departure times (and dates) are fixed and may not be what you want, and organising multiple trips in a year well in advance is well-nigh impossible.

 

Buying a boat for holidays makes no financial sense whatsoever, but people do it -- especially if they're getting closer to retirement -- because they're willing to burn money to try and solve the above problems with hiring boats 😉

 

(and plan to spend a reasonable number of weeks per year on board, perhaps with friends and/or family)

Edited January 21, 2022 by IanD

[LadyG]

Cut to the chase, as a single hander with forty years salty water experience, I would not have bought a boat if it were not an adventure in later life when other adventures were out of reach. 

I could not live long term on a forty foot boat.

I have a 57ft, but could cope with a well designed 52 footer trad stern. 

Buying a new boat having had no experience of boating, taking the financial hit straight away, then discovering your boat needs this that and t'other, is just a tad mad. 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Cut to the chase, as a single hander with forty years salty water experience, I would not have bought a boat if it were not an adventure in later life when other adventures were out of reach. 

I could not live long term on a forty foot boat.

I have a 57ft, but could cope with a well designed 52 footer trad stern. 

Buying a new boat having had no experience of boating, taking the financial hit straight away, then discovering your boat needs this that and t'other, is just a tad mad. 

 

And with 40 years 'lumpy water experience' and just a 'couple of years' on the canals - already you are taking about selling up (the narrowboat) as it is 'not quite as pleasant an experience as you thought it would be'

[cheesegas]

On size, myself and my partner live comfortably on a 45’ cruiser stern. We work from home a lot too.
 

It’s got a small front deck as the gas locker is at the rear, so little space is wasted and the water tank is big, 1000l - enough to go two weeks and run the washing machine twice. Rear deck is useful to hang washing out, and use as a workspace in summer.
 

Also means that you don’t have to climb over an engine box and then go through a second set of doors to get into the boat.  Saw a lot of trad sterns and didn’t like them because of poor access from the rear - I like being able to get in/out from both ends of the boat easily. 
 

The smaller the boat the easier it is to turn. 50’+ often means to have to travel for a while to turn it around.
 

If you’re buying second hand on the lower end of the market, stuff will break on the boat. Lots. Get good at general repairs or it’ll be more expensive than renting. Are you going to be continuously cruising most of the year? Or in a marina some of it?

[Machpoint005]

You can't live aboard a share boat.

 

 

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

So much truth here.  Probably 80% or more of all boats sit festering away on their moorings, barely used or never used.  If their owners actually calculated how much it was costing them per hour they spend on the boat I bet they'd find it would be considerably cheaper to hire a boat now and then when they fancy going boating. If I wasn't a liveaboard there would be next to zero chance I'd own a boat.  I might consider joining a boat share though if I was retired.

 

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Slow and Steady said:

Nor me, no way I could justify it. But then again I don't have £1M in the bank and these days a lot of people do!

 

I expect yours is wisely invested in property and equities, rather than festering in a bank...

 

 

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I expect yours is wisely invested in property and equities, rather than festering in a bank...

 

 

I decided to invest some of mine in a boat. I'm sure it will prove to be a slightly better decision than investing in tulips... 😉

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

 

I decided to invest some of mine in a boat. I'm sure it will prove to be a slightly better decision than investing in tulips... 😉

 

You were a bit late to the party if you've been investing in tulip bulbs!!! 

[roland elsdon]

Investing in a boat is an interesting concept. We invested in an expensive lifestyle for many years and had great fun, but it was an investment in life. 2 good incomes were absorbed ( no fripperies like children or cars younger than 6 or seven years old)

We are currently digitising photos from living aboard from 1981 to 2004  it’s revealing.

 

 

[Feeby100]

On 20/01/2022 at 10:44, tree monkey said:

Inches 

Maybe he means a tv 😀

[IanD]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

You were a bit late to the party if you've been investing in tulip bulbs!!! 

I don't expect buying a new boat to be much more sensible though, viewed purely financially... 😉

[Slow and Steady]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I expect yours is wisely invested in property and equities, rather than festering in a bank...

 

 

No property any more. Divorce, split the proceeds. It was small house and back to work or boat and continue early retirement. No contest.

[Minimal]

4 hours ago, Slow and Steady said:

There is a guy moored near me who bought a 30ft boat new. He wanted new and 30ft sucked up his budget. Now he's skint and the boat is too small. If he sold it he'd be even worse off. It has almost no storage, expensive to run blower heating, no wood/solid stove, etc etc.

New boats are fine if you have a lot of money I guess, but I don't think I've ever come across one that didn't have a ton of teething problems starting with inadequate paintwork. I'm sure you can avoid most of that if you get your wallet out, already know what should be what and keep a stern eye on progress.

Another couple I know with a new boat they intended to live on went through all the teething, had to have it repainted after which the paint failed again, the windows leaked etc etc. 3 years later they still hadn't moved on and the mister never wanted to in the first place! Lost track of them now but I imagine they threw the towel in and took the financial loss on the chin.

Boat next to me has been moored for 6 years, the retired owner has spent ONE night on it. It's suffered - he's got it booked in for a repaint and new windows. So that's £60k to buy + 6 x £2k mooring + about £9k repaint/windows = approx £80k for one night. Meanwhile he's getting older and older and more doddery - I hope for his sake he eventually gets some use from it.

 

Meanwhile at the other end of the scale people have bought wisely for under £20k, are happy as Larry and would probably make a profit if they sold. 

 

Conclusion - do your homework, be realistic, tread carefully and things work out fine. Above all do not be in a hurry.

 

Really appreciate this post, It gets me to think about "Why do i want a boat" instead of "What can i do with it" and i dont think i ask the first question enough to myself.

 

And to answer that i just like a lot of the boring things in life i guess, I like the rainy weather most the time, I really want to go and explore more pubs (CAMRA Member) and i dont think there is anything much better than chilling out with a good ale at a country pub, Especially if its beside the canal, and just the freedom to explore a bit, Im someone who has never been abroad in my life and dont really have an intention to as it does not interest me, but the canals do, I just dont know if ill get heavily attached to that life or not, And on that note ill likely try and take some time out on one when possible.

 

And well the reality is im gonna have to go to work that i have fixed shifts for and plenty of time off to enjoy myself, Also i forgot to note i have easy reach for basically most marinas within 8 miles of Lichfield.

 

Like i look at the fact whilst in my case i would like a washing machine, If im checking in with my parents often I could just do it there, but of course it would be preferred to have one, and the main reason i would like a smaller boat is basically ill just save some cash and it just seems likely ill go and stay with one of my parents during my work days and go to the boat after when its not the greatest idea to go and travel somewhere.

 

I think i just want to do something different with my life than sit on my backside saving for an ideal house (In a village somewhere with a pub on my doorstep) feeling bad that whatever i aim for in that regard i would not acquire enough, And then when i eventually do ill not have the time to actually spend in the house, I at least get a taste for what i want this way if i know i can deal with having a boat.

 

I dont expect it to be a cheap way of living if im going to use it, but lets say if owning one based from my income is the difference between having £200-400 at the end of the month to £0-200 if i were to live in a house, Its like the difference of actually having the ability to save money for whatever i do in the future wherever that leads 😕

[cheesegas]

If you view the boat as a hobby, you’ll be fine. There’s always something to fix and improve. If you see it as a chore, you’ll tire of it quickly. 

[Slow and Steady]

2 hours ago, Minimal said:

 

Really appreciate this post, It gets me to think about "Why do i want a boat" instead of "What can i do with it" and i dont think i ask the first question enough to myself.

 

And to answer that i just like a lot of the boring things in life i guess, I like the rainy weather most the time, I really want to go and explore more pubs (CAMRA Member) and i dont think there is anything much better than chilling out with a good ale at a country pub, Especially if its beside the canal, and just the freedom to explore a bit, Im someone who has never been abroad in my life and dont really have an intention to as it does not interest me, but the canals do, I just dont know if ill get heavily attached to that life or not, And on that note ill likely try and take some time out on one when possible.

 

And well the reality is im gonna have to go to work that i have fixed shifts for and plenty of time off to enjoy myself, Also i forgot to note i have easy reach for basically most marinas within 8 miles of Lichfield.

 

Like i look at the fact whilst in my case i would like a washing machine, If im checking in with my parents often I could just do it there, but of course it would be preferred to have one, and the main reason i would like a smaller boat is basically ill just save some cash and it just seems likely ill go and stay with one of my parents during my work days and go to the boat after when its not the greatest idea to go and travel somewhere.

 

I think i just want to do something different with my life than sit on my backside saving for an ideal house (In a village somewhere with a pub on my doorstep) feeling bad that whatever i aim for in that regard i would not acquire enough, And then when i eventually do ill not have the time to actually spend in the house, I at least get a taste for what i want this way if i know i can deal with having a boat.

 

I dont expect it to be a cheap way of living if im going to use it, but lets say if owning one based from my income is the difference between having £200-400 at the end of the month to £0-200 if i were to live in a house, Its like the difference of actually having the ability to save money for whatever i do in the future wherever that leads 😕

I wasn't trying to put you off. I do keep tracks on the disasters so I can  at the silliness of some rose tinted glasses wearers who jump in without thinking. This is easily avoided if you're honest with yourself and consider advice from people who have done it/are doing it. 

Here's a thing - I'll get shot down for saying it but living on a boat plugged into the mains on a marina is relatively cheap and you don't (initially) need to know a damn thing about boats, though it certainly helps to learn as much as possible to avoid buying a wrong 'un. 

 

Engine will be fine cos you barely run it. Nothing much is going to wrong with a boat that just sits there. No need to keep replacing batteries or fart about conserving electric. Washing machine works, 240v immersion for hot water. Cheap 240v fridge, Microwave works. Big TV if you like that. You can have a desktop pc and a big screen, . I have a digital recording/mixing studio in mine of a quality that would have cost £1/2M 30 years ago (the wonders of modern computing!).

 

Marina berth + licence maybe 3k/year (depends on marina charge/length of boat) Insurance damn site cheaper than a car... talking of which you can have a car! No council tax, no water rates, CRT don't prod you to keep moving, that's why there are sooo many pensioners living on boats in marinas, they're not daft. And... you can still use it as a hobby/holiday boat (unless your batteries are kaput). Lots of opportunity to fix your boat up in a marina, for starters you can ave things delivered very easily, use as your banking address etc etc. There is more than one way to live on a boat, you don't HAVE to beetle around the network, you don't HAVE to be miserable because you're "stuck" in a marina.

 

Now... technically it's" illegal" to live in a boat in most marinas - most do not have planning permission for that and those that do charge accordingly. This bothers some people, maybe it bothers quite a lot of people and stops them taking the plunge. You basically have no rights, you can be chucked out with zero notice but of course... you untie two ropes, start the engine and off you go. It wouldn't be a big deal IMHO.  

[MtB]

1 hour ago, cheesegas said:

If you view the boat as a hobby, you’ll be fine. There’s always something to fix and improve. If you see it as a chore, you’ll tire of it quickly. 

 

^^^Seconded^^^

[MrsM]

I like Roland's 'investing in life' concept. We bought our boat for holidays not to live aboard. Now that hubby can work from home we get at least 14-16 weeks away on it each year (not counting odd weekends). We reckon a week's holiday would cost us roughly £1k so we are getting good value out of our boat (even with our mooring fee added in) and a much better, happier and healthier quality of life. 

[cuthound]

21 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

You can't live aboard a share boat.

 

 

 

 

Depends on how good you are at squeezing into small spaces and remaining hidden... 😂🤣

[agg221]

I don't know if this is helpful or not, but some thoughts.

 

We have a 38' boat which has 30' of cabin, a trad stern and a short tug style deck. Its fit-out is certainly minimalist at the moment! I will probably change jobs at some point, I work in a niche field which means I am unlikely to find another job within commuting distance and my family does not want to relocate, so I have spent some time contemplating whether it would be practical to use the boat as a base during the week.

 

I concluded that it would actually be quite comfortable. It has a back cabin which would be the bedroom, a toilet, will have a shower when I install it, and it has a modest galley with fridge, hob and oven, and seating at the front with two bench seats. The front space is around 10' long overall. If I needed to live on it I would slightly change that area to remove one of the bench seats and add a table, rather than the current plan for a central demountable table. The front has a Refleks stove for heating, which works fine set on minimum. If I was going to be living on it all day, I would replace that with a Davey hot-pot solid fuel stove, but for just evenings and overnight, the convenience of the diesel stove would win. There would be space for books and clothes. I would have to give up the more space-consuming hobbies (actually in my case they would stay at home!) but I could fit the small ones on board, such as repairing vintage watches for example.

 

I think the approach of being based in a marina is a good one. It would solve the issue of electrical power and mean you do not need a large water tank, or a lot of storage for the toilet. A friend did something similar last year but went to the opposite end of the scale, being based in London and having bought a full-length FMC steamer, for which he secured a marina berth. He is entirely happy with his choice, very much enjoying life on the boat (even though he currently has COVID and is isolating on it, but it comes with a land-based data connection so plenty of Youtube). He is looking forward to the summer when he plans to take it out for a few weeks at a time, heading up the Grand Union in his case.

 

I would echo the comments on hiring first.  I don't know if they still have it, but I know at one point @Rose Narrowboats had a small boat that could be hired for singlehanded boating, but I am going back 20 years on that one (someone called Guy on a forerunner to this forum hired it before he went on to buy Thorn).

 

Other than that, prices are currently high but they seem to be holding. The way we looked at it was that even if they fall by 10% then your loss is 10% of the total value - you aren't writing off the whole value of the boat, so if you can afford to try it then if you find you enjoy it it's worth a go.

 

Alec

 

 

[system 4-50]

My parents were liveabroads and found it very, very, expensive.  The Turkish government seized their dwelling and they  got nothing for it.  

[gatekrash]

17 hours ago, MrsM said:

I like Roland's 'investing in life' concept. We bought our boat for holidays not to live aboard. Now that hubby can work from home we get at least 14-16 weeks away on it each year (not counting odd weekends). We reckon a week's holiday would cost us roughly £1k so we are getting good value out of our boat (even with our mooring fee added in) and a much better, happier and healthier quality of life. 

I agree with this entirely.

 

I get where IanD is coming from about buying a boat for holidays being financially daft, but that's not actually the case as long as you use the boat.

 

We bought because we were fed up with hire restrictions and reckoned we'd get more value out of our own boat, especially as we've both retired early whilst fit enough to enjoy life.

 

So far we reckon moorings, licence, maintenance and running costs are between 3.5 to 4k per year. But we've had at least 7 full weeks away including 'peak' season weeks, not counting all the odd weekends up the cut to the pub and the Christmas and New year trips out. Even just the full weeks would have been well over 7k's worth of hire costs and without any worry about getting the boat back at exactly the right time, so we're well up on the deal. To be fair we've put more hours on the engine in the last 12 months than the previous owner did in 5 years though !

 

And for us, living at the bum end of the country, having a boat in the Midlands is a great base to use as a stop off point for visiting other parts of the country, like a second home with the added benefit of being able to move it.

[canals are us?]

I have a 50ft Trad in a Marina on a residential Marina in the Midlands.

Been here 9 years as suits work as self employed. As stated, very easy as batteries Trojan T105's and all 5-8 years old so expect if not on charge would be US if out and about.

A few years ago fitted a voltage sensitive relay to parallel the twin alternators and a 3kw inverter to run the washer, as was planning to get out and about, but put customers first then Covid.. With a Marina you get water and electric on the Jetty and elsan and rubbish disposal plus car parking. 

Have a 12 volt  under counter freezer and fridge. Mains slimline Dishwasher. 380 watts of solar through Tracer MPPT controller.

Heating by solid fuel stove with back boiler and diesel Webasto. Having a solid fuel stove is a must, my best purchase after the boat.

 

I bought the boat for 25k 9 years ago, good survey. Blacking/ anodes replaced. Biggest expense 18 months to 2 years ago has been a new gearbox and 8 new anodes plus blacking. Stern/ Bow ones lasted over 7 years. Cost was £2400. This year plan to reseal the windows while re painting most of the boat and getting it blacked again. Like to update galley worktop and tiles and paint below gunnels from magnolia satin to a green colour.

 

For me though it's a nice way of living and being as independent of the bills. Could not afford to rent a place locally. Earn around 6-8k per year. I find it works out well for me and have a bit saved up for when/ if it ever needs overplating. 50ft is a good size for just me.

My Sister has a 23ft Springer water bug, ideal weekend boat. Like her half price Licence and mooring fees though! 

With a boat you really need to be able to do some of the work, as labour rates at boat yards can soon add up.

Edited January 22, 2022 by canals are us?

[pete.i]

You will know when your ready and you will know when you have had a gut full. I wasn't a live aboard and wouldn't live on a narrow boat or a wide beam for all the tea in China but I did have three boats in my ten years on the canals. Even as a leisure boater it was hard work and expensive. The upkeep of all three of my boats was a lot of work and even brand new boats need to be molly coddled to prevent them becoming eyesores or worse and that molly coddling has to happen more or less every two or so. It was cold in the winters and you need to be hardy to withstand the conditions sometimes. I did enjoy my time on boats and, really, the main reason I gave it all up and sold up was because I wanted to move nearer to my family and there are no canals near me now. I was also getting annoyed at the apparent lack of any attention that the Canal and River Trust seemed to be giving to boaters who, regardless of what others may think, is the reason CRT and BW before them exists. Anyway my advice is hire a boat for a couple of weeks and see how it goes. You will know when your ready but it is a very expensive and frustrating experience if your not ready and you buy and then find it's not for you.

[Donkey]

As above, you really need to hire for a week or more, (and ideally during a "cold" season?)

We used to rent and ended up buying into a boat as we really wanted to spend "serious" time on a narrow boat once we retired. However we actually found our "natural limit" was only about 2 weeks! (We had dreams of spending 6 months aboard!) For us Winter on a narrow boat would not be an option.