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CO Alarm bargain?


Rebotco

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8 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Do I need one on a boat that has no cooking or heating appliances? 

 

This is not a trick question - Juno (currently) has neither and her BSS is due


Yes you do. If the boat has an 'accommodation space' it must have a CO alarm regardless.

I think it is to protect against someone in future sticking a genny in the well deck and gassing themselves etc. 

Edited by booke23
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37 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Do I need one on a boat that has no cooking or heating appliances? 

 

This is not a trick question - Juno (currently) has neither and her BSS is due

 

The BSS cannot legally impose any requirement to 'protect you from yourself' (which is why suicide is legal). After consultation the BSS only managed to get the inclusion of CO alarms passed by the necessary people by arguing that it was there to protect you from sources of CO produced by others and which had entered the boat via vents, windows etc. It was not there to protect you from your own CO gas.

 

Inderstanding the reason why the requirement was introduced may answer your question.

 

It would be interesting what an examiner thought and to see if he would pass Juno, or fail her.

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Not quite sure why you have quoted me - I doubted they would be part-2 which is why I suggesting that folks check the standard - it was not I that suggested buying them.

No particular motive - just that, to me, you highlighted the importance of -1 and -2 and the link to BSS. Helped ma.

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12 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

The BSS cannot legally impose any requirement to 'protect you from yourself' (which is why suicide is legal). After consultation the BSS only managed to get the inclusion of CO alarms passed by the necessary people by arguing that it was there to protect you from sources of CO produced by others and which had entered the boat via vents, windows etc. It was not there to protect you from your own CO gas.

 

Inderstanding the reason why the requirement was introduced may answer your question.

 

It would be interesting what an examiner thought and to see if he would pass Juno, or fail her.

 I hadn't thought of it like that..... 

 

Although when I had Lutine, I noticed the cabin often had other people's smoke in it - I knew it wasn't mine because I'd not lit a fire....

 

Good point well made - I'll get a CO alarm 

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23 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It would be interesting what an examiner thought and to see if he would pass Juno, or fail her.

 

6.4 Carbon monoxide alarms
6.4.1   If the vessel has one or more accommodation space(s), are the correct number of 
carbon monoxide alarms provided? R


Identify the presence of one or more accommodation space(s).
If present, check for the presence and location of carbon monoxide alarm(s). 

Check by visual assessment and, if necessary, measure the distance between carbon monoxide alarm(s) and any door that links accommodation spaces.


All vessels having one or more accommodation space(s) must be provided with at least one carbon monoxide alarm. 
A carbon monoxide alarm must be located within 10m of any door that links accommodation spaces.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

6.4 Carbon monoxide alarms
6.4.1   If the vessel has one or more accommodation space(s), are the correct number of 
carbon monoxide alarms provided? R


Identify the presence of one or more accommodation space(s).
If present, check for the presence and location of carbon monoxide alarm(s). 

Check by visual assessment and, if necessary, measure the distance between carbon monoxide alarm(s) and any door that links accommodation spaces.


All vessels having one or more accommodation space(s) must be provided with at least one carbon monoxide alarm. 
A carbon monoxide alarm must be located within 10m of any door that links accommodation spaces.

 

 

 

 

 

You know that, I know that, but does the examiner ?

 

Maybe he would think along the lines that MP did - No gas, no heating, no cooking = no need for a CO alarm.

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

You know that, I know that, but does the examiner ?

 

Maybe he would think along the lines that MP did - No gas, no heating, no cooking = no need for a CO alarm.


When I had the BSS done on my gas free and stove free boat it's didn't sway the examiner. He failed it immediately on lack of CO alarm. As CO alarms are quite a recent addition to BSS, I think all the examiners have been on a seminar on the subject and are all over it, so to speak. 

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5 minutes ago, booke23 said:

As CO alarms are quite a recent addition to BSS,

 

April 2017 is hardly 'recent'

 

But, as I explained it is not what appliances are on YOUR boat, but what may be on the boat that you are moored behind / in front / alongside that can put fumes into your boat.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

No, but April 2019 is when it came into force ...

 

Precisely. And recent enough for it to be fresh in examiners heads as it is likely every other boat they inspect until 2023 will not comply. 

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Small point, certification for boat use is an option within 50291-2, the certificate of conformity (or the manual) should say whether boat use was included. I think most are now certified for boat use, but there was certainly a -2 model a few years ago that was certified for caravans but not boats. Check the small print!

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15 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

After consultation the BSS only managed to get the inclusion of CO alarms passed by the necessary people by arguing that it was there to protect you from sources of CO produced by others and which had entered the boat via vents, windows etc.

 

I have no doubt that you are correct, but where/how did you find that out?

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2 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

I have no doubt that you are correct, but where/how did you find that out?

 

It was explained on their website when there was talk of the introduction of th alarms and a lot of complaints about infringement of liberties, freedom of choice etc, so they went into great detail about how it was simply to protect you from other boaters emissions, and yes they could not insist on it if it was simply to inform you of your emissions, but as it was to protect you from a 3rd parties actions it was allowable.

 

When it was finally published the statement was simply (and still is on the website) :

 

Although the need for CO alarms is being introduced to help protect boat owners from sources of the toxic gas from neighbouring boats, the alarms are also expected to prevent death or injury to crew members from their own boat engines or appliances

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If the cheap Lidl CO alarm isn't in stock there are also cheap ones on Amazon for a few quid more. I'm sure ebay is another good source but free returns for defective or unwanted items are much easier on Amazon. Normally you need to spend over 20 quid for free delivery.

 

Kidde 5CO Ten Year Life LED Carbon Monoxide Detector : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

 

 

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Neither of the above two are directly comparable to the Lidl one, as they are not the LCD display versions.

None of them seem to advertise whether they are the type1 or type2, if that does actually matter.

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13 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Neither of the above two are directly comparable to the Lidl one, as they are not the LCD display versions.

None of them seem to advertise whether they are the type1 or type2, if that does actually matter.

 

Of the two posted recently, the Fireangel one seems to be BS EN50291-1:2010+A1:2012 & BS EN50291-2:2010 (based on a similar looking item on another site)

The Kidde one is marked EN50291-1:2010

 

Type 1 are intended for domestic use. Type 2 are tested against effects of vibration found in vehicles, and are more robust.

Edited by alias
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7 minutes ago, Rebotco said:

Neither of the above two are directly comparable to the Lidl one, as they are not the LCD display versions.

None of them seem to advertise whether they are the type1 or type2, if that does actually matter.

The eBay one states it’s a type 2 in the specs (not shown in my photo) on the webpage. 
The Lidl ones we’ve been informed are not no2’s.

 

Back of fireangel,

top right

is the number we’re looking for

4BCEAAE6-9775-434D-9552-53DDDA45DB88.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Goliath said:


I won’t buy off Amazon. 

 

I used to be like that. Didn't like the fact that they take the piss on tax.

 

However, the service is so good, particularly once the pandemic started, that I've used them for most online stuff since March 2020.

 

On the tax thing I think a law lord once said that it is up to us to minimise the tax we pay, legally, and my view is that it is for the government to stop firms like Amazon taking the piss. In fact, if its legal, its not taking the piss.

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1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

 

On the tax thing I think a law lord once said that it is up to us to minimise the tax we pay, legally, and my view is that it is for the government to stop firms like Amazon taking the piss. In fact, if its legal, its not taking the piss.

 

I agree. Which of us would voluntarily pay more tax than legally required? If the govt isn't prepared to close the tax loopholes and increase the tax revenue from large multinationals then that's their fault.

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1 hour ago, Rebotco said:

Neither of the above two are directly comparable to the Lidl one, as they are not the LCD display versions.

 

 

As someone already said, LCD displays on CO alarms are a bit of a gimmick. Either the alarm goes off or it doesn't. If it goes off you get out. You don't need to see that it's reading 40ppm

 

I've got a a Kidde alarm with a display in the saloon which reads 18ppm wherever I put it - even if I put it outside! The accuracy of any CO alarm display is questionable and its utility is negligible.

Edited by blackrose
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1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

I used to be like that. Didn't like the fact that they take the piss on tax.

 

However, the service is so good, particularly once the pandemic started, that I've used them for most online stuff since March 2020.

 

On the tax thing I think a law lord once said that it is up to us to minimise the tax we pay, legally, and my view is that it is for the government to stop firms like Amazon taking the piss. In fact, if its legal, its not taking the piss.

Fair enough. 
it’s more the fact they’re a massive American company that I avoid them,

same with Starbucks and the like,

 

I’ve friends who pack and/or drive for Amazon and reckon they get a good deal. I think the drivers in particular get well paid.

Hey ho. 

 

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