Surveyor for safety inspection

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe the same reason residential and leisure are different requirements

 

Do you think so ?

[Mike Hurley]

Is the BSS certificate marked leisure use only? What if Mr. Leisure boater gets a test which passes and sells the boat next week to someone who lives aboard BSS still valid?

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, Mike Hurley said:

Is the BSS certificate marked leisure use only? What if Mr. Leisure boater gets a test which passes and sells the boat next week to someone who lives aboard BSS still valid?

 

It's still not a BSS rule.  It's GSIUR as applied to a vessel used as a dwelling place.

 

If it's a dwelling place the rules apply, if it isn't the rules don't.

[MtB]

13 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

A BSS inspector who is not Gas Safe LPG + Boats registered testing a boat without a bubble tester in the gas system is committing a criminal offence and your BSSC is invalid ...

 

I was with you until the last bit. Where does it say the BSS ticket will be invalid if the tightness test is passed but carried out by someone unqualified to do it?

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by MtB
Spelling and grammar!

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

Is the BSS certificate marked leisure use only? What if Mr. Leisure boater gets a test which passes and sells the boat next week to someone who lives aboard BSS still valid?

As I understand it the GSIUR requires people carrying out 'work' on gas systems on residential properties, including boats, to have the relevant competence. So that requirement only applies while the 'work' is being done. So if the boat later becomes residential the BSC continues to be valid, but when it comes to be renewed the GSIUR requirements will apply.

[TheBiscuits]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

I was with you until the last bit. Where does it say the BSS ticket will be invalid if the tightness test is passed but carried out by someone unqualified to do it?

 

 

 

I'm not sure it does say that but if an unqualified person did the BSS test using a manometer against GSIUR it can't be a valid test, can it?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'm not sure it does say that but if an unqualified person did the BSS test using a manometer against GSIUR it can't be a valid test, can it?

 

How about if an examiner comes on the boat, sits in the saloon, has a cup of tea and a biscuit, signs off the BSS without even looking at anything - simply saying "it passed last time so it will this time".

[MtB]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How about if an examiner comes on the boat, sits in the saloon, has a cup of tea and a biscuit, signs off the BSS without even looking at anything - simply saying "it passed last time so it will this time".

 

But was he GSR with LPG for Boats??

[Iain_S]

6 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'm not sure it does say that but if an unqualified person did the BSS test using a manometer against GSIUR it can't be a valid test, can it?

Why not? It might be an offence to do paid "work" on an LPG system, but that wouldn't invalidate the result. Thinking about it, it's probably legal if the boater does the test while the examiner observes. Wouldn't like to test that, though!

[Alan de Enfield]

52 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

But was he GSR with LPG for Boats??

 

No idea, he never even looked in the gas locker, let alone showed me his ID.

[TheBiscuits]

4 minutes ago, Iain_S said:

Thinking about it, it's probably legal if the boater does the test while the examiner observes.

 

Actually that's probably true in terms of GSIUR.  If the owner, unpaid, connects the manometer to the test point the (unregistered) BSS inspector can watch the drop and decide if it's OK or not then the owner can. again unpaid. remove the tube and refit the plug to the test point.

 

I still think it's far simpler to just have a bubble tester though - if nothing else you can check your gas tightness every time you fancy doing so rather than once every 4 years.

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by TheBiscuits
spellink

[Idle Days]

Just following up for a friend who has been told his boat will fail a BSS as it doesn't have a bubble tester fitted. I've told him that is incorrect but it has set me wondering if watching a bubble tester test is anything like my favourite pastime of watching paint dry, How long does wait for a bubble?

[MtB]

20 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

Just following up for a friend who has been told his boat will fail a BSS as it doesn't have a bubble tester fitted. I've told him that is incorrect but it has set me wondering if watching a bubble tester test is anything like my favourite pastime of watching paint dry, How long does wait for a bubble?

 

It tells you how long to wait in the manual.

 

But you knew that really didn't you?! IIRC it used to be 30 seconds but when they realised this was too coarse a test, they changed it to one minute.

 

 

P.S. boats do not have to have a bubble tester to pass a BSS. The BSS inspector needs to be GSR though if it is a liveaboard. Not otherwise though, bubble tester or no bubble tester.

[Idle Days]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

It tells you how long to wait in the manual.

 

But you knew that really didn't you?! IIRC it used to be 30 seconds but when they realised this was too coarse a test, they changed it to one minute.

 

 

Actuatly I didn't, but thanks for informing me.

I could probably stay awake for 30 seconds on a good day although it's not guaranteed. Please excuse me now as I must take my mid-day nap.

[MtB]

1 minute ago, Idle Days said:

Actuatly I didn't, but thanks for informing me.

I could probably stay awake for 30 seconds on a good day although it's not guaranteed. Please excuse me now as I must take my mid-day nap.

 

 

You're running late! 

 

Again...

[alias]

On 14/01/2022 at 15:01, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How about if an examiner comes on the boat, sits in the saloon, has a cup of tea and a biscuit, signs off the BSS without even looking at anything - simply saying "it passed last time so it will this time".

 

There does seem to be quite a bit of variability, (although perhaps some of it is down to changes in the rules). On our boat:

 

- the first test was commissioned by the builder and found no issues

- our surveyor on purchase from the first owner (a BS examiner as well) thought the gas pipes undersized and offered a free BSC if they were immediately changed

- we didn't immediately do that for one reason or another, and the pipe size was passed at the next four yearly test (in our absence)

- the next couple of tests passed without issue (also in our absence)

- the following tester had some issues with fuses - when asked if this was a new requirement he said no, but many other testers didn't even look at stuff

 

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, alias said:

 

There does seem to be quite a bit of variability, (although perhaps some of it is down to changes in the rules). On our boat:

 

- the first test was commissioned by the builder and found no issues

- our surveyor on purchase from the first owner (a BS examiner as well) thought the gas pipes undersized and offered a free BSC if they were immediately changed

- we didn't immediately do that for one reason or another, and the pipe size was passed at the next four yearly test (in our absence)

- the next couple of tests passed without issue (also in our absence)

- the following tester had some issues with fuses - when asked if this was a new requirement he said no, but many other testers didn't even look at stuff

 

 

I reckon it would be at least a whole day's work to properly check everything on the BSS checklist. 

 

I think there is a tendency (understatement) for the examiner to look at the important stuff and if that looks ok just issue the ticket, take the money and get on with the next one, confident that s/he won't end up in court over it. I think pragmatism roolz if you are a BSS bod wanting to earn a sensible rate for your time. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

I reckon it would be at least a whole day's work to properly check everything on the BSS checklist. 

 

I think there is a tendency (understatement) for the examiner to look at the important stuff and if that looks ok just issue the ticket, take the money and get on with the next one, confident that s/he won't end up in court over it. I think pragmatism roolz if you are a BSS bod wanting to earn a sensible rate for your time. 

 

 

 

If it is not important then why is it in the BSS ?

Who determines what is important and what isn't ?

 

For example are fire extinguishers important ?

[MtB]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

If it is not important then why is it in the BSS ?

 

We've covered this before. Other than safety-critical stuff like the gas and leccy, much of the BSS is pandering to the controlling instincts of bureaucrats to spend other people's money at no cost to themselves. 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Who determines what is important and what isn't ?

 

Bureaucrats who enjoy bossing you and me about and making us do trivial stuff like put labels on our pump out caps.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

For example are fire extinguishers important ?

 

Yes. Were you not sure? 

 

I hold that about 90% of the BSS is 'gold plating', on top of the basic safety considerations. 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

Yes. Were you not sure? 

 

 

In which case I wonder why the BSS Examiner decide to issue a 'pass' in 2015 when the extinguishers were clearely dated as expiring in 2010.

The examiners (in both 2011 and 20165) appear to disagree with you about the importance of fire extinguishers :

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by Alan de Enfield

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In which case I wonder why the BSS Examiner decide to issue a 'pass' in 2015 when the extinguishers were clearely dated as expiring in 2010.

The examiners (in both 2011 and 20165) appear to disagree with you about the importance of fire extinguishers :

 

 

Perhaps because he didn't have all day to merss about examining every single line of the BSS spec.

 

Now I have a question in return. Why did you have them in the boat knowing they are out of date? Was it to make a point and catch out the examiner or something? Or do you have more in the boat, enough that are in date, perhaps...? 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, MtB said:

 

Perhaps because he didn't have all day to merss about examining every single line of the BSS spec.

 

Now I have a question in return. Why did you have them in the boat knowing they are out of date? Was it to make a point and catch out the examiner or something? Or do you have more in the boat, enough that are in date, perhaps...? 

 

On every boat on which I have had had a BSS untertaken there has been one or two 'failures' set up. I want to see how reliable the examiners are - so far everyone has 'failed' the test.

In one instance I did get a 'fail' but the reason that it failed was on an 'advisory' this was the final straw and resulted in me making a complaint to the BSS office. which simply ended up in them saying "we will discuss it with the examiner and see if he needs more training".

 

I have nothing but contempt for the BSS, the whole mismanaged system spoils it for those good and conscientious surveyors / examiners that are out there.

[frahkn]

27 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

On every boat on which I have had had a BSS untertaken there has been one or two 'failures' set up. I want to see how reliable the examiners are - so far everyone has 'failed' the test.

In one instance I did get a 'fail' but the reason that it failed was on an 'advisory' this was the final straw and resulted in me making a complaint to the BSS office. which simply ended up in them saying "we will discuss it with the examiner and see if he needs more training".

 

I have nothing but contempt for the BSS, the whole mismanaged system spoils it for those good and conscientious surveyors / examiners that are out there.

First, let me say that whatever you want to do on your own boats is of course fine.

 

But second, this seem to me to be beyond eccentric, it verges on weird. Can you (and do you wish to) explain this activity? Preferably in non-psychiatric  terms.

[LadyG]

3 hours ago, MtB said:

 

It tells you how long to wait in the manual.

P.S. boats do not have to have a bubble tester to pass a BSS. The BSS inspector needs to be GSR though if it is a liveaboard. Not otherwise though, bubble tester or no bubble tester.

So, the first thing a GasSafe BSC examiner with lpg and boat will ask is "are you liveaboard",  he will test your installation. 

and a non GS Examiner will ask you to fit a bubble tester because he cannot test with a manometer at a test point, if he finds out you are liveaboard. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2022 by LadyG

[LadyG]

12 minutes ago, frahkn said:

First, let me say that whatever you want to do on your own boats is of course fine.

 

But second, this seem to me to be beyond eccentric, it verges on weird. Can you (and do you wish to) explain this activity? Preferably in non-psychiatric  terms.

I got bunged quite a few quid to sort a fail, paid by the guy who had issued the Certificate after I complained to him direct, so that's the way to do it, lol.