Newbie with questions!

[PD1964]

4 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Completely agree apart from the trad stern, my favourite was always cruiser. However 68 foot is perfection, followed by 70 and then the rest. I think the OP can find any other stuff out tats already been posted on earlier threads. Widebeam even better apart from cruising range of course.

The OP lives and works the North, so why talk about 68/70ft boats? He is being sensible with sticking with a size that can do all the Northern Canals, 55ft  would be a good size, no need for a 68/70ft especially for a single occupier. 

[LadyG]

I singlehand on wide canals, I would not want to lose any interior space. There is room for crew to stand inside when hatch is open. 

[PD1964]

43 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I singlehand on wide canals, I would not want to lose any interior space. There is room for crew to stand inside when hatch is open. 

Have you tried this when coming to locks? Most of the time they’re in your line of sight and in your way on a Trad stern if standing in front of you, as you tend to stand also in that area due to tiller and engine controls.

Edited January 11, 2022 by PD1964

[cuthound]

A trad with an oversize hatch (or even better a normal size hatch in an oversize hatch) allows two or 3 (at a push people to travel at the stern of a trad (without standing on the gunwales) without losing the other benefits of a trad stern (warm and dry for winter cruising, more interior space etc).

[cuthound]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

I singlehand on wide canals, I would not want to lose any interior space. There is room for crew to stand inside when hatch is open. 

 

Sounds like you are steering whilst standing on the counter outside of the stern doors.

 

This is potentially dangerous, especially when reversing as you are within the arc of the tiller, which can sweep you overboard if the rudder hits an underwater obstruction.

 

There have been a couple of fatalities due to steering from the counter.

 

Far safer to steer from the inside of the hatch, so the stern doors are behind you.

[David Mack]

3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Far safer to steer from the inside of the hatch, so the stern doors are behind you.

And warmer and drier!

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Sounds like you are steering whilst standing on the counter outside of the stern doors.

 

This is potentially dangerous, especially when reversing as you are within the arc of the tiller, which can sweep you overboard if the rudder hits an underwater obstruction.

 

There have been a couple of fatalities due to steering from the counter.

 

Far safer to steer from the inside of the hatch, so the stern doors are behind you.

More than a couple

[OldGoat]

As usual / often this thread has drifted away from the original request (and so have I).

Might I suggest that - presented with a vessel that the OP decides - maybe on a whim - it's the one for him / her - that it's worth considering maximising the  internal usable space, becaus for most new-comers,  comfortable interior space for all UK conditions suggests as long a steel cabin as possible is best.

The steering position on a trad can be adapted DIY  to be steered from within the hatch; sitting on the top of the roof using a mix of carriage folding steps and extending /lifting the tiller so that it can be steered from aloft.

The advantage is that a used boat can be modified to achieve that on a DIY basis - rather than searching for the complete article from the outset.

Your ultimate / target boat probably doesn't exist

BUT

something that can be modified with a Birmingham Scredriver and a 'leccy drill is more achievanle than waiting for the Holy Grail to fall into your lap.

 

Hone what skills you have and mebe extending them is better than being stopped at the starting point.

Edited January 11, 2022 by OldGoat

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, cuthound said:

 

Sounds like you are steering whilst standing on the counter outside of the stern doors.

 

This is potentially dangerous, especially when reversing as you are within the arc of the tiller, which can sweep you overboard if the rudder hits an underwater obstruction.

 

There have been a couple of fatalities due to steering from the counter.

 

Far safer to steer from the inside of the hatch, so the stern doors are behind you.

I'm not within the arc of the tiller, I have a short tiller, and I think that is better as it won't catch on walls either. The tiller passes behind me when I am steering. I can extend it, then I have to stand on a box inside the cabin, so if I have to get to a lock I have to remove the extension and then get on to the stern. I sometimes do steer from there on long easy passages. I try not to cruise when it's raining ☔

Edited January 11, 2022 by LadyG

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

The steering position on a trad can be adapted DIY  to be steered from within the hatch; sitting on the top of the roof using a mix of carriage folding steps and extending /lifting the tiller so that it can be steered from aloft.

No adaptation is required. The steering position on a trad is within the hatch, standing on the cabin step. Of course you can also sit on the roof with your feet dangling down into the hatch. Depending on the design of the hatch slide rails and maybe the cabin handrails, you may need some sort of removable seat to make the sitting position more comfortable.

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

No adaptation is required. The steering position on a trad is within the hatch, standing on the cabin step. Of course you can also sit on the roof with your feet dangling down into the hatch. Depending on the design of the hatch slide rails and maybe the cabin handrails, you may need some sort of removable seat to make the sitting position more comfortable.

Agree - you're right.

I was really trying to suggest to newcomers that sometimes/ often a boat that's nearly optimum can merely be  modified  with a bit of 'lateral thinking' to give what  is needed, rather than bemoaning a lack of suitable craft.

 

It's what people did with cars many  years ago...

[MtB]

8 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

It's what people did with cars many  years ago...

 

Indeed.

 

My F-i-L used to tell me about his mate who removed the front seats from his car and installed the sofa out of his living room! 

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

Indeed.

 

My F-i-L used to tell me about his mate who removed the front seats from his car and installed the sofa out of his living room! 

As he wanted a Saloon. Brrmm Brrmm

Edited January 11, 2022 by PD1964

[joxley1990]

Hi all,

 

Thank you for ALL your replies, it is very much appreciated. 

 

I have taken the positives and negatives into account, and have concluded that I am still going to go ahead with it. 

 

I happened to drive past Chorley Marina (Aquavista) during my travels at work and ended up having a chat with some lovely people there, one person in which suggested I should keep an eye on facebook marketplace for some bargains, instead of paying commission to somebody?

 

I am now just keeping my eye out for the right narrowboat for me. I have got a 45ft+ cruiser in mind at the moment. I would like the extra space outside for entertaining I think. Keeping an open mind though. 

 

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

Hope to be on the waters come summer! 

 

James 

[MrsM]

Good luck with your search James. The right boat will tell you!

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, joxley1990 said:

I happened to drive past Chorley Marina (Aquavista) during my travels at work and ended up having a chat with some lovely people there, one person in which suggested I should keep an eye on facebook marketplace for some bargains, instead of paying commission to somebody?

 

Maybe the person to whom you spoke is working under a misaprehension (or just doesn't know what they are talking about) ..............

 

The buyer DOES NOT pay a commission to the broker, all costs are paid by the SELLER, all you pay for is the cost of a survey which you will pay irrespective of buying it from a private individual, a company or a broker.

[MtB]

3 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe the person to whom you spoke is working under a misaprehension (or just doesn't know what they are talking about) ..............

 

The buyer DOES NOT pay a commission to the broker, all costs are paid by the SELLER, all you pay for is the cost of a survey which you will pay irrespective of buying it from a private individual, a company or a broker.

 

 

On the other hand, a private seller is quite likely to price a little (or a lot) wrongly, either high or low, so private sales are the place to look for underpriced boats. Brokers tend to know their market and broadly speaking, obtain full market value for every boat they sell so their 6% commission is generally covered.

 

If you want a bargain, brokers tend to be the last place you'll find one. 

[TheBiscuits]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The buyer DOES NOT pay a commission to the broker, all costs are paid by the SELLER,

 

Technically correct, but there's a lot of brokerage boats where the seller increased their asking price by at least the brokerage commission.

 

 

[Slow and Steady]

I like brokers myself. The only time I was seriously interested in a tow path boat I drove 150 miles to a pre-arranged view with the seller knowing I was serious - got there and it was "sorry mate, sold it half an hour ago." Gah! After a short discussion I let him know I'd have paid £5K more and left - it was the best I could do to get my own back.

 

The broker who sold my last boat got about £5k more for it than I'd have asked, did all the work and covered his commission with some to spare. He'd also sold me the boat at a good price without survey. Then I bought privately, 200 yards away knocking £10k off the asking price for a then and there sale again with no survey.

 

Brokers can also be persuasive to the seller to take an offer as they want their commission and the small % of any price cut makes little difference to them. I think that works particularly well if the broker is also the marina and offers free mooring on brokerage.

 

It's definitely a game not unlike house buying/estate agents.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Slow and Steady

[blackrose]

On 11/01/2022 at 14:21, IanD said:

 

Statements like "a full trad is best" are not helpful to somebody trying to make a choice -- what this actually means is "I think a full trad is best for me", that doesn't mean its best for everyone... 😉

 

True. A full trad would definitely not be best for someone who ends up with several crew onboard during cruises. There's nowhere for anyone to stand and socialise.

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

Technically correct, but there's a lot of brokerage boats where the seller increased their asking price by at least the brokerage commission.

True, but narrowboat pricing is not an exact science, there's often  more wiggle room for negotiation than the ~£2k the broker takes, and there are some very optimistic asking prices on Facebook marketplaces as well as some more reasonable ones.