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Another Sunk Boat.....Banbury


booke23

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

I don't doubt it. But it looks as if proper professional repairs are required - the boat has gone beyond the stage at which a quick bodge will suffice.

Well, I certainly hope that he has comprehensive insurance, as I don't think that third-party would cover the boat's recovery and repair.

 

Could someone perhaps put the owner in touch with a good scrap merchant in the area?

As far as I am aware,most third party insurance covers the cost of re-floating and a wodge of Milliput.

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18 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

As far as I am aware,most third party insurance covers the cost of re-floating and a wodge of Milliput.

That's good news- the name suggests that it benefits only other people's boats, e.g. when involved in a collision.

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15 hours ago, MtB said:

 

With his comment, I expect Athy was imagining all the repair costs at Tooleys would be met by the chap's comprehensive insurance policy.

 

After all every boat on the cut has insurance, doesn't it? 

Depends on the cause . 

If due to gradual corrosion probably excluded , even if it is insured.

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27 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

As far as I am aware,most third party insurance covers the cost of re-floating and a wodge of Milliput.

The 3rd party policies that I've had in the past few years have included 'wreck removal' up to £50k costs iirc in addition to the usual third party cover.

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38 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

The 3rd party policies that I've had in the past few years have included 'wreck removal' up to £50k costs iirc in addition to the usual third party cover.

Presumably on the grounds that the presence of a wreck a) causes inconvenience to third parties while in the water and b) will cost third parties money to remove it if the owner cannot or will not do so.

Presumably also the insurance company can claim any scrap value.

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15 minutes ago, Marbling said:

Presumably on the grounds that the presence of a wreck a) causes inconvenience to third parties while in the water and b) will cost third parties money to remove it if the owner cannot or will not do so.

Presumably also the insurance company can claim any scrap value.

 

Are CRT not a third party? They have to maintain the waterway so are obliged to remove wrecks and so they would have a third party claim. Maybe we should have some sort of uninsured loss scheme on the waterways but that means we all have to pay a bit extra?????

 

However I am surprised that insurance companies give low cost third party insurance to "unknown" boats as sinking and removal must be a significant risk?

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

The gas installation does not look BSS compliant either?

Perhaps it floated out of its sealed locker. Then again.....

Enjoyed your piece in 'Canal Boat' about Cambridge by the way, assuming that was you.

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36 minutes ago, dmr said:

However I am surprised that insurance companies give low cost third party insurance to "unknown" boats as sinking and removal must be a significant risk?

 

My own third party policy requires me to maintain the boat in sea/river/canalworthy condition, so If I let it sink by not maintaining it (as probably happened in the OP - i doubt it was a collision or 'boating incident' that sunk it), they have a get-out. 

 

So I suspect sinking one's boat in a lock, say, would be treated very differently by one's TP insurance to sinking it by, say, not keeping the batts charged to run the bilge pump working to combat a leaking hull or cooling hose.

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A year ago a video of a sunken boat featured here. In that case the owner had moored the boat immediately downstream of a Thames Lock, and when the river flooded the mooring ropes held it down and it sank. In that case the insurers refused to pay the recovery charge - I'm guessing because the owner's actions caused it to sink.

(Happily the boat is now afloat again.)

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This is odd.  The concept of third party insurance is no protect third parties and so this should not depend upon the owners negligence. If the boat sinks due to lack of maintenance then the insurer is not obliged to recover it on behalf of the owner but I would I think would be obliged to remove it (as wreck removal) on behalf of the navigation authority, though this could include a rather brutal and destructive recovery. I assume the insurance company could then try to recover the money from the owner.

 

If there is a road accident then insurers might argue over blame to decide which insurance company pays, they could not say "accidents are due to poor driving therefore you are not insured".   One could argue that most insurance claims are due to at least a degree of negligence.

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8 minutes ago, dmr said:

If there is a road accident then insurers might argue over blame to decide which insurance company pays, they could not say "accidents are due to poor driving therefore you are not insured".   One could argue that most insurance claims are due to at least a degree of negligence.

 

 

My insurance specifically states that the boat must be maintained in a 'canal worthy / sea worthy condition - I suppose it is analagous to having bald tyres on your car. Your car is not road worthy, the accident is due to you skidding into another car ........................... no cover !

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5 hours ago, Athy said:

I don't doubt it. But it looks as if proper professional repairs are required - the boat has gone beyond the stage at which a quick bodge will suffice.

 

 

Do we know it needs professional repairs? It might just be coincidence but during times of persistent and heavy rain some badly maintained boats go down simply because rainwater gets in from above and collects in the engine bay until the extra displacement causes engine vents to sink below the waterline.

 

Regular clearing of deck board gutters and properly maintained batteries and bilge pump may have prevented it sinking. Of course it will need a lot more that that now, but not necessarily professional repairs. Until it's refloated and inspected nobody knows.

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24 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Do we know it needs professional repairs? It might just be coincidence but during times of persistent and heavy rain some badly maintained boats go down simply because rainwater gets in from above and collects in the engine bay until the extra displacement causes engine vents to sink below the waterline.

 

Regular clearing of deck board gutters and properly maintained batteries and bilge pump may have prevented it sinking. Of course it will need a lot more that that now, but not necessarily professional repairs. Until it's refloated and inspected nobody knows.

 

 

It has been said earlier "It seems that the boat has been taking on water for sometime and being controlled. Must have got worse." so it is probably fair to say that it has been kept afloat by pumps rather than "maintained to an acceptable standard", or 'it has rained a lot'.

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3 hours ago, Athy said:

Perhaps it floated out of its sealed locker. Then again.....

Enjoyed your piece in 'Canal Boat' about Cambridge by the way, assuming that was you.

Thank you - but photos and words were by Martin Ludgate of the editorial staff. I just made sure we didn't sink any punts.  If anyone fancies a day trip to Cambridge I hope to do similar trips in February and maybe March. Send me a DM if interested.

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On 27/12/2021 at 12:09, roland elsdon said:

Not surprised. We deliberately didn’t moor near it earlier on this year. That generator was echoing off the walls the whole time. Mess everywhere. ( it’s where it was then in sept). We were forced into banbury last week to the bank and could hear the generator as we walked in to town.

 

Looking at all the leaves on the path next to the boat it appears to be one of those that puts all their junk alongside the boat, as the rest of the towpath is nice and clean. 

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On 28/12/2021 at 12:36, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

My insurance specifically states that the boat must be maintained in a 'canal worthy / sea worthy condition - I suppose it is analagous to having bald tyres on your car. Your car is not road worthy, the accident is due to you skidding into another car ........................... no cover !

For motor vehicles, s148 of the Road Traffic Act provides:

 

Avoidance of certain exceptions to policies... .

(1) Where a policy is issued for the purposes of this Part of this Act, so much of the policy as purports to restrict—

(a) the insurance of the persons insured by the policy, by reference to any of the matters mentioned in subsection (2) below shall, as respects such liabilities as are required to be covered by a policy under section 145 of this Act, be of no effect.

(2)Those matters are—

…..(b) the condition of the vehicle,

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/148

 

So, bald tyres do not mean no cover.   Which is pretty logical as little point in compulsory insurance if it is easily voided by the actions or inactions of the insured.  The insurance company might (I think) lay a separate claim against the insured,

 

RTA and bald tyres have little to do with boats 

 

 

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The Banbury boat. Steve the owner is in his seventies and pretty weak. His engine is crank handle start so he hasn't been running it .. all a bit of a mess really, as you can see by the loads of rubbish he had .. he told me that he had a leak under the bow ... but he didn't do anything about it. Had been listing for a while, getting worse, and a number of us tried to get him to get it sorted, including Tooley's, but he became offensive at one point and wanted to be left alone. He didn't pump out - don't know why .. maybe no battery power for the bilge pump? Eventually it crossed the line and sank 4am Boxing Day, his dog woke him up. Down to CRT now I guess as he hasn't any money to get it lifted nor repaired. If he had insurance they wouldn't pay out as was a pre-known existing condition.

 

 

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People live on crappy boats for lots of reasons, some just want an easy selfish and cheap life, others have drink and drug addictions, lots have no money for various reasons. I have varying degrees of sympathy for these (ranging from zero to a fair amount), but the scary one is getting old because that's going to come to all of us.   A few years ago we witnessed a bloke in his 80's getting removed from his boat by his family and the CRT welfare officer, he wanted to stay on the boat but his family wanted him to stay alive, a difficult decision. 

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

People live on crappy boats for lots of reasons, some just want an easy selfish and cheap life, others have drink and drug addictions, lots have no money for various reasons. I have varying degrees of sympathy for these (ranging from zero to a fair amount), but the scary one is getting old because that's going to come to all of us.   A few years ago we witnessed a bloke in his 80's getting removed from his boat by his family and the CRT welfare officer, he wanted to stay on the boat but his family wanted him to stay alive, a difficult decision. 

A very difficult decision our family may have to make.

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

People live on crappy boats for lots of reasons, some just want an easy selfish and cheap life, others have drink and drug addictions, lots have no money for various reasons. I have varying degrees of sympathy for these (ranging from zero to a fair amount), but the scary one is getting old because that's going to come to all of us.   A few years ago we witnessed a bloke in his 80's getting removed from his boat by his family and the CRT welfare officer, he wanted to stay on the boat but his family wanted him to stay alive, a difficult decision. 

 

A few decades back a modern day philosopher commented that "Nothing grips a man so securely as old age and poverty". 

 

I've just googled this but I can find no mention of who said it. I've always found that thought particularly accurate and scary, and for much of my life it has underpinned my financial decisions. Sadly we see evidence of the truth of it all over the canal system, and so must CRT

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