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CRT Short "Wet Waste" Survey


cuthound

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Just had an email from CRT confirming that my licence has been renewed.

 

It contained a very short "wet waste" survey asking how I dispose of my wet waste, whose facilities I use for the disposal, the type of toilet fitted to my boat and whether I am a leisure boater or live aboard continuous cruiser.

 

Presumably the purpose of the survey is to identify the number of boats fitted with various toilet types.

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3 minutes ago, cuthound said:

Just had an email from CRT confirming that my licence has been renewed.

 

It contained a very short "wet waste" survey asking how I dispose of my wet waste, whose facilities I use for the disposal, the type of toilet fitted to my boat and whether I am a leisure boater or live aboard continuous cruiser.

 

Presumably the purpose of the survey is to identify the number of boats fitted with various toilet types.

 

Presumably very carefully worded as 'wet waste' so composting toilet owners do not have to divulge how they dispose of their 'dry-waste' and C&RT can abrogate responsibility.

 

Cynical, Moi ?

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1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Presumably very carefully worded as 'wet waste' so composting toilet owners do not have to divulge how they dispose of their 'dry-waste' and C&RT can abrogate responsibility.

 

Cynical, Moi ?

 

It did list "separating toilets" as a sub group.

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I guess with the number of boats now being lived on we are looking at having grey waste water tanks fitted in the near future. The London Canals seem to be going green with algae  and that is not due to the agricultural run off that has been the case elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, Mike Adams said:

I guess with the number of boats now being lived on we are looking at having grey waste water tanks fitted in the near future. The London Canals seem to be going green with algae  and that is not due to the agricultural run off that has been the case elsewhere.

 

As the Med is viewed almost as a 'closed water' many of the Med countries are beginning to require both Grey and Black water tanks with VERY heavy fines for dumping at Sea.

You have to buy a 'Blue card' and each time you are pumped out (either black or grey tanks) the volume is recorded on you card and 'account', if you have not been pumped out for a while the authorities estimate how much you should have used x the number on board and you are fined for dumping x 100 litres.

Turkey is very agressively enforcing it with Greece coming up behind and France and Spain are 'looking into it'

 

Those who built my boat were thinking ahead and it already has both Black & Grey tanks.

 

Spain

Spain has holding tank requirements which together with their pollution legislation, essentially mean that vessels cannot discharge untreated sewage within Spanish territorial waters (12 nautical miles). The Spanish legislation is ORDEN FOM/1144/2003, 28 April which for anyone who speaks Spanish can be found at www.fomento.es and an unofficial translation of the legislation is also available.

Greece

In Greece the regulations relating to discharges and pollution make a holding tank a practical necessity although we are not aware of them being a legal requirement as yet. Caution should also be exerted with grey water in Greece.

Turkey

Discharge of any kind may be considered illegal. A black water tank has therefore been a practical necessity in Turkey for many years. New rules have been coming into force in some areas of Turkey (such as the Mugla District) over the last few years which require vessels to carry a Blue Card. If the rules are enforced to the full all black and grey water will need to be collected and pumped out ashore; the Blue Card will be used to monitor the amount of waste water deposited ashore to ensure holding tanks are pumped out rather than emptied into the sea.

 

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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On land, kitchen sink waste water is classed as "Category 5 (out of 5!) - serious health hazard" with fines starting at £1000 for installing a new system or altering an existing system for incorrect disposal of said waste. CAT 5 includes any fluid which contains faecal matter or other human waste, butchery or other animal waste, or pathogens from any other source.

 

Perhaps the canals are looking to this for their waste disposal discussion.

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17 minutes ago, Briss said:

On land, kitchen sink waste water is classed as "Category 5 (out of 5!) - serious health hazard" with fines starting at £1000 for installing a new system or altering an existing system for incorrect disposal of said waste. CAT 5 includes any fluid which contains faecal matter or other human waste, butchery or other animal waste, or pathogens from any other source.

 

Perhaps the canals are looking to this for their waste disposal discussion.

Kitchen sink water is classed the same as the flush from a toilet? Wow!

What are the other categories and what kind of 'effluent' would they contain?

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36 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Kitchen sink water is classed the same as the flush from a toilet? Wow!

What are the other categories and what kind of 'effluent' would they contain?

The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999, Schedule 1 defines the five fluid categories, but I don't see anything which specifically allocates kitchen sink waste to category 5. But I think any domestic grey or black water would come under Category 5. Although these rules only apply to properties with a permanent mains supply, so not boats.

 

Fluid category 1

Wholesome water supplied by a water undertaker and complying with the requirements of regulations made under section 67 of the Water Industry Act 1991(1).

Fluid category 2

Water in fluid category 1 whose aesthetic quality is impaired owing to–

(a)a change in its temperature, or

(b)the presence of substances or organisms causing a change in its taste, odour or appearance,

including water in a hot water distribution system.

Fluid category 3

Fluid which represents a slight health hazard because of the concentration of substances of low toxicity, including any fluid which contains–

(a)ethylene glycol, copper sulphate solution or similar chemical additives, or

(b)sodium hypochlorite (chloros and common disinfectants).

Fluid category 4

Fluid which represents a significant health hazard because of the concentration of toxic substances, including any fluid which contains–

(a)chemical, carcinogenic substances or pesticides (including insecticides and herbicides), or

(b)environmental organisms of potential health significance.

Fluid category 5

Fluid representing a serious health hazard because of the concentration of pathogenic organisms, radioactive or very toxic substances, including any fluid which contains–

(a)faecal material or other human waste;

(b)butchery or other animal waste; or

(c)pathogens from any other source.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1148/schedule/1/made

Edited by David Mack
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3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999, Schedule 1 defines the five fluid categories, but I don't see anything which specifically allocates kitchen sink waste to category 5.

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1999/1148/schedule/1/made

Well, I guess the water from a sink *could* contain butchery or other animal waste; or pathogens from any other source

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28 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Well, I guess the water from a sink *could* contain butchery or other animal waste; or pathogens from any other source

Exactly. I  have my WRAS (water regs) accreditation from 2009.

Edit: also... remember those kitchen sink macerator units that could dispose of a chicken carcass etc? ... and your fingers!

Edited by Briss
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31 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Well, I guess the water from a sink *could* contain butchery or other animal waste; or pathogens from any other source

Splitting hairs and looking at the quote above it says " including any fluid which contains–".  Grey water may not contain 

 

 

(a)faecal material or other human waste;

(b)butchery or other animal waste; or

(c)pathogens from any other source.

 

Given that most people won't be using the grey water outlet as a toilet or doing any butchery.  Any germs on their bodies will have been killed (otherwise why have we been told to wash our hands so much for the last couple of years) I can't see how it fits into Cat 5.

 

To me the operative word is which not could or might but which.

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6 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

What do they define as "Wet Waste"? Our shower and kitchen sink go over the side.

 

Given they were asking what type of toilet you had and where you disposed of its "wet waste" contents, I took them to mean black water from the toilet, not grey water from showers and sinks.

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10 minutes ago, cuthound said:

 

Given they were asking what type of toilet you had and where you disposed of its "wet waste" contents, I took them to mean black water from the toilet, not grey water from showers and sinks.

 

Maybe it would be advantageous all round if C&RT used the correct teminology, or, would that be expecting too much >?

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4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Maybe it would be advantageous all round if C&RT used the correct teminology, or, would that be expecting too much >?

But I can assure you there are boaters out there who don't know what grey and black water waste is. They all know what is wet from their toilets. Just like they don't know what potable water is.

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35 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But I can assure you there are boaters out there who don't know what grey and black water waste is. They all know what is wet from their toilets. Just like they don't know what potable water is.

Now, I'm not sure, those who poop in to sawdust or cat litter etc could define the waste as dry, not wet ie they convert the wet to dry for disposal via Biffa or compost heap. 

The separators would put urine in a bucket for disposal in to Elsan, at best. 

Edited by LadyG
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1 hour ago, Jerra said:

Given that most people won't be using the grey water outlet as a toilet or doing any butchery.  Any germs on their bodies will have been killed (otherwise why have we been told to wash our hands so much for the last couple of years) I can't see how it fits into Cat 5.

If you are washing your hands after going to the toilet there must, on occasion, be faecal matter which ends up in the waste water. Likewise when you wash your parts in the bath or the shower. So that puts wash basin, bath and shower waste water into category 5.

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