CRT Spotters

[Barry Orton]

Out of curiosity, do Spotters walk the towpaths on the same day(s) all across the network?  If not, how can monitoring of 14 days be accurate?

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, Barry Orton said:

Out of curiosity, do Spotters walk the towpaths on the same day(s) all across the network?  If not, how can monitoring of 14 days be accurate?

It isn't.

[Tracy D'arth]

The Canada Geese are all grasses.

 

Most Checkers seem to be wandering the clean dry towpaths within a short distance of their cosy van on the same day each week.

The broken, muddy remote towpaths never get visited hence the perpetual moorers on the floating sheds in the countryside.

[David Mack]

Quite a few of them cycle.  And they concentrate resources on the areas where boats are most likely to congregate.

[Briss]

...and then, in the not-too distant future, every CRT license will come with a code you tap into a transponder to enable a satellite to track your progress and issue a fixed penalty notice if you overstay... or release a homing missile! 😁

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, Briss said:

...and then, in the not-too distant future, every CRT license will come with a code you tap into a transponder to enable a satellite to track your progress and issue a fixed penalty notice if you overstay... or release a homing Canada Goose! 😁

Corrected that for you 🕊️

I've only seen one or two spotters, and they were on bikes or on foot. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by LadyG

[MtB]

21 minutes ago, Barry Orton said:

Out of curiosity, do Spotters walk the towpaths on the same day(s) all across the network?  If not, how can monitoring of 14 days be accurate?

 

Curiously, CRT rely quite heavily on the willingness of the vast majority of boaters to actually comply with the rules rather than there being a need for all boats to be subjected to "accurate" monitoring. 

 

The thing is, once a boat draws attention to itself e.g. by mooring on the best end of the 48hr VMs here and sporting a "Broken down, awaiting parts" sign in the porthole written in fading Biro, I've seen CRT get onto them like a ton of bricks and chase them off in less than a year. So don't feel you can take the p1ss.

 

As others have said, I think the monitoring is haphazard at best and focused on the honeypot locations. Also I suspect a sub-section of compliant boaters tends to call in and complain about other boats they notice overstaying, leading to a CRT bod being dispatched to take a sighting. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by MtB
Clarify.

[Alway Swilby]

I got chatting to a moorer near Pewsey on the K&A who told me gleefully how to moor for two weeks on a 48 hour visitor mooring. They had it sussed. They had sussed that the checker comes every Tuesday at around 11AM without fail. So you moor up on the 48 hour mooring on the Tuesday morning just after the checker has departed. You can then stay on the 48 hour mooring until around 10AM on the Tuesday two weeks later. As long as you've gone by the time the checker arives. The checker will have seen you on the intermediate Tuesday but as they only ever come on a Tuesday they only know that you moored sometime after last Tuesday so you might well have been there less than 48 hours. No wonder there was nowhere for us to moor there.

[Captain Pegg]

Monitoring doesn't need to be totally accurate. It's purpose is to build a picture of movements to identify boats that are potentially in breach for follow up action. It then becomes the boat owner's responsibility to demonstrate they are moving in accordance with the law and not CRT's to prove they aren't.

 

I encountered spotters in rural locations on the GU a couple of times this past year and I confirmed that they do log craft in transit as they pass. I guess all the GU classes as a place where boats tend to congregate though.

[MtB]

2 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

I got chatting to a moorer near Pewsey on the K&A who told me gleefully how to moor for two weeks on a 48 hour visitor mooring. They had it sussed. They had sussed that the checker comes every Tuesday at around 11AM without fail. So you moor up on the 48 hour mooring on the Tuesday morning just after the checker has departed. You can then stay on the 48 hour mooring until around 10AM on the Tuesday two weeks later. As long as you've gone by the time the checker arives. The checker will have seen you on the intermediate Tuesday but as they only ever come on a Tuesday they only know that you moored sometime after last Tuesday so you might well have been there less than 48 hours. No wonder there was nowhere for us to moor there.

 

Lol, I have been gleefully told exactly the same thing, in the same location! 

 

Never tried it out though. Strikes me as quite anti-social. 

[Briss]

While I was typing my tonge-in-cheek post a little voice inside my head told me this was sort-of already being done for new "probationer" drivers... excluding the homing missile (so far). A quick search came up with some apps that parents can install on their kid's phone to check up on them while they're driving. It's a small step from this to issuing parking tickets and speeding fines from space....

 

Mama Bear   For parents who want more immediate notifications for driving plus monitoring tools for safety and awareness, the Mama Bear is a great tool. It is available on Android and iOS. This app allows parents to set a speed limit and alert you if they exceed that speed whether the driver or a passenger. Parents are also able to set locations in the phone and get notified when the teen arrives at that location and when they leave it. Plus, if you want an app to help monitor text messages and social media use, including tracking followers, pictures, and mentions. 

[doratheexplorer]

1 hour ago, Briss said:

While I was typing my tonge-in-cheek post a little voice inside my head told me this was sort-of already being done for new "probationer" drivers... excluding the homing missile (so far). A quick search came up with some apps that parents can install on their kid's phone to check up on them while they're driving. It's a small step from this to issuing parking tickets and speeding fines from space....

 

Mama Bear   For parents who want more immediate notifications for driving plus monitoring tools for safety and awareness, the Mama Bear is a great tool. It is available on Android and iOS. This app allows parents to set a speed limit and alert you if they exceed that speed whether the driver or a passenger. Parents are also able to set locations in the phone and get notified when the teen arrives at that location and when they leave it. Plus, if you want an app to help monitor text messages and social media use, including tracking followers, pictures, and mentions. 

Insurance companies have been providing black boxes to younger drivers for years, in return for lower premiums.  If you have a crash and you were found to be exceeding the speed restriction or driving after a certain time, your insurance is invalid.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

The Canada Geese are all grasses.

 

Most Checkers seem to be wandering the clean dry towpaths within a short distance of their cosy van on the same day each week.

The broken, muddy remote towpaths never get visited hence the perpetual moorers on the floating sheds in the countryside.

I obviously see different ones to you, normally on a bike and covering several miles.

[doratheexplorer]

1 hour ago, Captain Pegg said:

Monitoring doesn't need to be totally accurate. It's purpose is to build a picture of movements to identify boats that are potentially in breach for follow up action. It then becomes the boat owner's responsibility to demonstrate they are moving in accordance with the law and not CRT's to prove they aren't.

 

I encountered spotters in rural locations on the GU a couple of times this past year and I confirmed that they do log craft in transit as they pass. I guess all the GU classes as a place where boats tend to congregate though.

Yes, they can get a general picture but it won't show up the kind of overstaying Swilby describes.

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 Strikes me as quite anti-social. 

Some people are

1 hour ago, Briss said:

...and then, in the not-too distant future, every CRT license will come with a code you tap into a transponder to enable a satellite to track your progress and issue a fixed penalty notice if you overstay... or release a homing missile! 😁

No need, they are just waiting for us all to be vaccinated 

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

 

I've only seen one or two spotters, and they were on bikes or on foot. 

Which one was on a bike, and which on foot?

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, Alway Swilby said:

the checker comes every Tuesday at around 11AM without fail. So you moor up on the 48 hour mooring on the Tuesday morning just after the checker has departed. You can then stay on the 48 hour mooring until around 10AM on the Tuesday two weeks later.

 

There were a bunch used to do similar on the L&L a few years ago, but on a Monday not a Tuesday.

 

It all started going a bit wrong for them when they forgot one Monday was a Bank Holiday so the checker came on the Tuesday instead ...

[Captain Pegg]

18 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Yes, they can get a general picture but it won't show up the kind of overstaying Swilby describes.

 

That example is of course not a direct breach of the statute law. While I suspect it's still legally enforceable I wonder whether CRT would treat it the same as repeated breaches of the 14 day rule. As has been pointed out it's mostly an anti-social behavior, but even that depends on the circumstances. My permanent mooring is on a site that also has a number of 48 hour moorings and given they are never full (other than at festival time when it seems the rules are waived) I don't think it matters if folk stay up to 14 days, and indeed many do.

 

I've heard it said by one boater that there is no licence checker on the Droitwich but it's not true as I've met one on the mooring.

 

ETA - just remembered that the modern method of enforcing time limits on VMs is the threat of fines for overstaying.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Captain Pegg

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Which one was on a bike, and which on foot?

 

obviously a Schrödinger's Spotter.

 

Both on foot and on a bike at the same time until someone looks at them, at which point they assume one state or the other. 

[Flyboy]

2 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

I got chatting to a moorer near Pewsey on the K&A who told me gleefully how to moor for two weeks on a 48 hour visitor mooring. They had it sussed. They had sussed that the checker comes every Tuesday at around 11AM without fail. So you moor up on the 48 hour mooring on the Tuesday morning just after the checker has departed. You can then stay on the 48 hour mooring until around 10AM on the Tuesday two weeks later. As long as you've gone by the time the checker arives. The checker will have seen you on the intermediate Tuesday but as they only ever come on a Tuesday they only know that you moored sometime after last Tuesday so you might well have been there less than 48 hours. No wonder there was nowhere for us to moor there.

I trust you have dobbed this p**s taker in to CaRT.

[Mike Todd]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Curiously, CRT rely quite heavily on the willingness of the vast majority of boaters to actually comply with the rules rather than there being a need for all boats to be subjected to "accurate" monitoring. 

 

The thing is, once a boat draws attention to itself e.g. by mooring on the best end of the 48hr VMs here and sporting a "Broken down, awaiting parts" sign in the porthole written in fading Biro, I've seen CRT get onto them like a ton of bricks and chase them off in less than a year. So don't feel you can take the p1ss.

 

As others have said, I think the monitoring is haphazard at best and focused on the honeypot locations. Also I suspect a sub-section of compliant boaters tends to call in and complain about other boats they notice overstaying, leading to a CRT bod being dispatched to take a sighting. 

I suspect it is not haphazard - ie without any rationale. It is much more likely, that in common with other enforcement agencies, they risk assess and focus efforts where it is most likely to be an issue, either in terms of the level of infringement or the seriousness of the impact.

 

An example from my own experience - when a national inspectorate was established for care homes etc there was an annual (at least) inspection but then the Government cut back the funding and this was no longer a viable scheme. As a result they introduced a risk assessment based on their prior experience of inspection reports and left the good guys alone whilst visiting more frequently those who have had prior problems. The problem with this is that it takes an incident to put a place on the radar whilst the universal inspection was meant to be protective. Same applies to probation service, environmental health (food hygiene), child protection etc etc.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Monitoring doesn't need to be totally accurate. It's purpose is to build a picture of movements to identify boats that are potentially in breach for follow up action. It then becomes the boat owner's responsibility to demonstrate they are moving in accordance with the law and not CRT's to prove they aren't.

 

I encountered spotters in rural locations on the GU a couple of times this past year and I confirmed that they do log craft in transit as they pass. I guess all the GU classes as a place where boats tend to congregate though.

Now that is interesting.  A "checker" told me that he could not mark a moving boat as checked on his section, boats had to be moored.

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Now that is interesting.  A "checker" told me that he could not mark a moving boat as checked on his section, boats had to be moored.

The geese are on bikes?

[George and Dragon]

31 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I suspect it is not haphazard - ie without any rationale. It is much more likely, that in common with other enforcement agencies, they risk assess and focus efforts where it is most likely to be an issue, either in terms of the level of infringement or the seriousness of the impact.

 

An example from my own experience - when a national inspectorate was established for care homes etc there was an annual (at least) inspection but then the Government cut back the funding and this was no longer a viable scheme. As a result they introduced a risk assessment based on their prior experience of inspection reports and left the good guys alone whilst visiting more frequently those who have had prior problems. The problem with this is that it takes an incident to put a place on the radar whilst the universal inspection was meant to be protective. Same applies to probation service, environmental health (food hygiene), child protection etc etc.

As someone who used to run a hospital says: 

It is impossible to inspect quality into services. Turn up and inspect, if it’s good, you wasted your time, turn up and it’s bad and it’s too late. 

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Now that is interesting.  A "checker" told me that he could not mark a moving boat as checked on his section, boats had to be moored.

That possibly depends what they are meant to check. 

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Alway Swilby said:

I got chatting to a moorer near Pewsey on the K&A who told me gleefully how to moor for two weeks on a 48 hour visitor mooring. They had it sussed. They had sussed that the checker comes every Tuesday at around 11AM without fail. So you moor up on the 48 hour mooring on the Tuesday morning just after the checker has departed. You can then stay on the 48 hour mooring until around 10AM on the Tuesday two weeks later. As long as you've gone by the time the checker arives. The checker will have seen you on the intermediate Tuesday but as they only ever come on a Tuesday they only know that you moored sometime after last Tuesday so you might well have been there less than 48 hours. No wonder there was nowhere for us to moor there.

If they went every 13 days you could be there for 25 without getting caught, there is no point going less than 14 days

[Detling]

In the winter most checkers seem to patrol marinas and mooring areas with tarmac. Easy pickings. In summer they do indeed spread theirs wings or dust down the bike and travel much further, but generally into areas where there are several boats. So moor on a muddy towpath in the middle of nowhere with nobody moored within half a mile and if you get checked more than twice in a year you have been unlucky