Internet/data access on boats -- some tips

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Morat said:

Yes, the cost reduction is true. Also, they reduced the power consumption by 2/3 which is very welcome. However, it might be a bit tricky to get a Starlink box now as they've sent 15,000 units to Ukraine 😮

That's quite a commitment to the cause!

https://www.theverge.com/2022/5/5/23058181/starlink-portability-internet-price-locations

 

Starlink reportedly draws between 60-70W (newer circular version), according to Jeff Geerling’s blog, an improvement on the 80-100W draw from just a year ago. (older circular versions)

 

https://seabits.com/starlink-finally-useful-aboard/

 

Version 2 dishy (newest rectangular version) takes about 35 watts to run on average, much better than the original version, which topped out around 100 watts.

 

These are still only usable when stationary (e.g. when moored), but you can roam about from one place to another. The one which works while moving is the super-expensive one I referred to above.

[Morat]

Yep, 35W is the standard issue now. At least, we didn't ask for anything special and the rectangular version arrived.

I can't imagine anyone being interested in the $5000 version.

 

Starlink ISL does look to be something that the HFT boyos will enjoy, for the longer links anyway. Interesting.

[IanD]

16 hours ago, Morat said:

Yep, 35W is the standard issue now. At least, we didn't ask for anything special and the rectangular version arrived.

I can't imagine anyone being interested in the $5000 version.

 

Starlink ISL does look to be something that the HFT boyos will enjoy, for the longer links anyway. Interesting.

35W does make Starlink a *lot* more feasible for narrowboats who really *need* high-speed Internet access where the mobile networks can't provide it and can afford it -- after the latest price rises, probably around £115/month with the mobility option that lets you move around.

 

The $5000/month version isn't targeted at individuals, unless they own a superyacht where this is a tiny addition to the running costs:

 

https://www.eetimes.com/starlinks-space-speed-up-a-battle-for-internet-leadership/

 

"The company has just added a maritime option for all kinds of shipping — from luxury yachts to oil rigs — to deliver internet in the coastal waters around the Americas, Australia, and Europe at present. The satellite link is enabled by paying $10,000 for two terminals that are ruggedized against sea salt to maintain the connection in choppy seas and heavy storms. The service itself costs $5,000 a month."

[Morat]

Wow, that's some impressive tech! I'd imagine they've been testing it on their rocket-landing barges first I don't see any special terminals for narrowboats just yet. Perhaps Elon needs a holiday on the cut? He could produce a dish that senses bridges and flattens itself against the roof automatically...

 

£110/mo does indeed move Starlink into a "need this for my business" type budget - and it probably doesn't stack up against 5G if you're in an urban location. But IF I was working from my boat (if only!) I'd take it so that I could guarantee a connection from wherever I was moored (within reason) and shuffle around the network at weekends.

 

Here's dreaming.

[umpire111]

On 09/12/2021 at 16:23, IanD said:

Triggered by discussions on another thread which I'd like to keep this separate to, I thought I'd post some information that people might find helpful...

 

Data/voice/music/video/TV

---------------------------

*Everything* nowadays on the mobile networks is actually data, there's no "voice" as such, it's just another set of packets of data.

If you're trying to receive data where the signal strength is low, two things happen. The first is that the network reduces the data rate because lower rate data needs less signal power, this happens on all types of data.

 

The second is that -- if possible -- the application processing the data uses more buffering and increases the latency (delay) to allow short signal dropouts to be "filled in"; longer delay allows the link to carry on working in poorer conditions. On top of this the application (e.g. Zoom) can also reduce the data rate, for example by reducing video resolution or frame rate, or pausing video in favour of voice -- all this is done in the background.

 

For some applications (like streaming radio or audio) this latency can be quite long (one or several seconds), which is especially useful if the receiver is moving (see later). Other uses like video calls (e.g. Zoom) can allow a delay of a few hundred milliseconds, so are not as robust. Voice calls (phone) can allow very little delay, these have the shortest buffer so are most susceptible to dropouts.

 

So if you have poor signals, the applications most likely to drop out are ones with higher data rates and lower latency. A rough order of priority from flakiest to most robust would be something like:

 

1. HDTV streaming (e.g. iPlayer) -- typically >6Mbps download

2= SDTV streaming (e.g. iPlayer, YouTube) -- typically 2Mbps download

2= "Professional" video calls with higher definition, multi-user video and presentation sharing (e.g. Zoom/Webex for companies) -- typically 1.5Mbps (up to 3Mbps for HD video), low-latency, bidirectional

3. "Consumer" video calls (e.g. Zoom with 1 person at each end) -- typically 0.6Mbps, low-latency, bidirectional

4= Streaming audio/radio -- typically 128kbps download, high-latency

4= Voice (phone) calls -- typically 32kbps bidirectional, very low latency

 

General Internet access could fall anywhere in this range, depending on what you're doing -- some applications are happy with any data rate at all, most need a medium rate, some need the highest rates to be usable. So how reliable your data coverage is when moving round the canals depends on what you want to do with it -- if you need higher data rates (e.g. professional video calls, HD streaming) you'll have problems more often, and vice versa. The other problem can be that applications which need equal up/down rates have more of a problem because your phone transmits at lower power than the basestations, so the uplink rate can be lower.

 

Note that different networks (e.g. EE, 3, BT) have different coverage, you can be in a weak (or no-) signal spot with one and have decent signal with another, depending on where the basestations are.

 

Router/aerials/MIMO/movement/3G/4G/5G

---------------------------------------------

Anything that increases signal strength will help, for example aerials (bigger or multiple are better) outside the boat. Doesn't mean that ones inside (or a phone, or in a window) won't work, but they'll fail more often. Again, from worst to best:

 

1. Mobile phone inside boat (steel box with holes in)

2. Standard router inside boat (bigger aerials than phone)

3. Mobile phone in window

4. Standard router in window

5. Mobile phone outside

6. Standard router outside (or with external aerial)

7. 2x2 MIMO router outside (or with dual external aerial)

8. 4x4 MIMO router outside (or with quad external aerial)

 

A lot of this is obvious, but maybe MIMO needs some more explaining. MIMO stands for "Multiple Input Multiple Output", which means using several antennas on both transmit and receive. As well as large dead spots due to coverage gaps (e.g. a remote stretch of canal) the radio signal can have dead spots (or lower signal level) due to reflections, and these are often between a few inches and a foot apart at the frequencies used by cellular networks. If you have two aerials spaced apart it's much less likely that they'll both be in a dead spot at the same time, so older routers (e.g. 3G) pick the stronger signal and use that, which reduces the chance of losing signal. Newer routers (e.g. 4G) can combine both signals instead of just choosing one, which improves reception further -- this is a benefit of a more modern router even if you don't think you often get 4G signals. But in either case, two aerials can give a lot more reliable reception, especially in a moving boat where you can be continually moving through dead spots.

 

5G is a much-hyped new technology, mainly for the huge data rates which are possible in the higher bands such as 6GHz and 26GHz (mmwave) -- but these are irrelevant for most boaters today, there's not much 5G 6GHz coverage outside a few cities and there will never be 26GHz coverage outside them because the reach is tiny. However in the "normal" network out in the sticks there can still be an advantage on both network and router sides, especially with 4x4 MIMO (4 aerials) which can not only help even more with dropouts but can use a technique called beamforming to steer reception towards the basestation you're connected to but also reject interference from other mobile phones and basestations -- again, this means either higher data rates, fewer dropouts, or both. There's also much bigger network capacity with 5G but this will mainly be an advantage to high-data-rate users in towns and cities, for example where lots of people are using HD video streaming.

 

The negative side of this is that 4x4 MIMO 5G routers and aerials are new, thin on the ground and expensive (about £500), so you've got to really want to get the best possible internet access to justify this -- for example people who need "professional" video calls for work, or are WFH using remote hosted software (e.g. CAD design). For example, I have several conference video calls every day with other teams and working-from-home people around the world, good quality (HD) is essential for the material we're sharing, and company policy is that video cameras should be on so everyone can see everyone else. Many other people nowadays are WFH where the software runs in the cloud and they need high enough data rates to drive a local display with low enough lag to be usable. The data rates and reliability these need are very different to a normal person-to-person Zoom call.

 

For most people a 2x2 MIMO 4G router with external aerials is absolutely fine and is half the price or less -- but make sure there are 2 external aerials, and make sure these are omnidirectional (same reception from all direction). A lot of the aerials sold for wireless internet access are directional, meaning strong pickup in one direction and weak in all the others. This is right for a house where you aim the aerial at the nearest basestation while monitoring signal strength or data rate, but on a boat you'd have to do this every time you stop (and some are designed for wall mounting so difficult to point in any direction), and would definitely not be good when you're moving.

 

A 3G router or one with a single aerial is probably a false economy nowadays, dual aerial 4G ones are not much more expensive and will give better and more reliable reception.

 

Starlink

--------

If you really need the kind of high-speed internet access you can get in a house regardless of where you are and have very deep pockets (and good electrics), it might be worth looking at Starlink, Elon Musk's satellite internet service. which currently achieves about 100Mbps/20Mbps download/upload speeds in the UK. Downsides include getting hold of it, using it on a mobile terminal like a boat instead of a static one like a house, dish size, power consumption (about 100W!), and cost (about £500 install + £90/month). People who are using it in houses with otherwise terrible internet access seem generally very happy with it, I don't know if anyone has tried it on a boat yet, and it's not clear that the current licensing conditions allow it -- but I know a terminal intended for mobile is in the works so this will definitely happen.

 

Conclusions

------------

How reliable you find wireless internet access on a boat will depend on which network you're on, what equipment you have, and what your data rate requirements are. There aren't many completely dead (no signal) spots but there are still a few, in most places you'll get a signal but the quality may vary.

 

The better your setup is (and the lower your required data rate is) the better the chance of you getting good enough data rates in more places; with a decent setup (e.g. external 4G 2x2 MIMO) most people with typical data needs will get good enough reception almost all of the time.

 

People who really need high data rates and the best possible coverage (e.g. for HD conferencing or HDTV streaming) should go for the best possible setup (external 5G 4x4 MIMO) but may still have occasional problems, and could consider using Starlink if they can afford the cost/power and solve the availability/licensing problems.

 

YMMV 😉

Can you recommend a 2 x2 router and aerials for a boat please, tried searching but not sure which one to go for

[Rob-M]

12 minutes ago, umpire111 said:

Can you recommend a 2 x2 router and aerials for a boat please, tried searching but not sure which one to go for

The Huawei 535 and poynting 4g-xpol-a0001 are mentioned quite a bit.  I have the Huawei 818.

[Chewbacka]

Just a general tip if using a simple mag mount wire aerial, this sort of thing - 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bingfu-Magnetic-Antenna-Vodafone-Cellular/dp/B086JBRQC1?ref_=ast_sto_dp&th=1&psc=1

Mobile base stations can be vertically and/or horizontally polarised.  So if you are struggling to get a signal from you vertical roof mount aerial try putting it on the side of the boat.  Works well for me.  I do intend to buy a ‘proper’ antenna one day.

[Tigerr]

Useful OP.

I've a question - I am not technically literate, and the whole area intimidates me!

I use my iPhone as my wifi link, which works OK in the motorhome, and I can watch Netflix, keep up with social media etc. Much less so in the boat for obvious reasons. In the past I had a Mifi unit (sat in the window) and a separate data account but it was very expensive - maonthly contract but used for only half the year.

So now I have a generous data allowance on the contract with EE on the iPhone, and link to that.

If I get a 4G antenna and router - will this work with my phone, or am I going to have to set up a new data account to run the router? 

[Rob-M]

The router will need its own SIM.

[IanD]

1 minute ago, Tigerr said:

Useful OP.

I've a question - I am not technically literate, and the whole area intimidates me!

I use my iPhone as my wifi link, which works OK in the motorhome, and I can watch Netflix, keep up with social media etc. Much less so in the boat for obvious reasons. In the past I had a Mifi unit (sat in the window) and a separate data account but it was very expensive - maonthly contract but used for only half the year.

So now I have a generous data allowance on the contract with EE on the iPhone, and link to that.

If I get a 4G antenna and router - will this work with my phone, or am I going to have to set up a new data account to run the router? 

 

It won't work *with* your phone, your account is tied to your SIM. You could remove the SIM from your phone and put it into the router, but some phone SIM contracts don't permit "data-only" use for Internet access (routers) -- and you'd lose the use of your phone. Your best bet would probably be to get a "data-only" SIM for the router from somebody like Smarty, one-month contract which can be paused when you're not on the boat.

[GUMPY]

8 minutes ago, IanD said:

but some phone SIM contracts don't permit "data-only" use for Internet access (routers) -

There was a law change on this a few years ago. Sims have to work in routers they can no longer be phone only.

Smarty data only Sims are more expensive for less data than their phone Sims.

[David Mack]

If the phone works OK as a hotspot in the motorhome, why not simply hang the phone by a window on the boat and do the same. Works for me.

[rusty69]

And some routers will allow connection of an old landline handset to utilise the inclusive minutes on the sim card. How much longer that will continue to work with 3G switch off is anyones guess though.

Edited March 31, 2023 by rusty69

[ditchcrawler]

17 minutes ago, Rob-M said:

The router will need its own SIM.

Go with Smarty  if you dont want a contract or Lebara 

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, Loddon said:

There was a law change on this a few years ago. Sims have to work in routers they can no longer be phone only.

Smarty data only Sims are more expensive for less data than their phone Sims.

 

Depending on the TOC, some phone sims (even "unlimited" ones) have FUP where they throttle the data rate past a certain monthly allowance; usually the data-only SIMs don't.

 

They can't stop SIMs working in routers, but they can still specify that what you can do with tethering (connecting to other networked devices) is restricted. Whether they actually do this in real life is another issue...

 

Always read the small print... 😉

 

Smarty SIM-only prices today:

 

Phone : £20 unlimited, £17 200GB, £10 60GB, £8 12GB, £7 8GB, £5 4GB -- "unrestricted tethering in the UK, no speed caps"

Data : £20 unlimited, £17 100GB, £13 40GB, £9 15GB, £5 2GB -- "unrestricted hotspotting and no speed limits"

 

Responsible use – Unlimited Data Only Plans
5.15 Our Unlimited Data Only SIM plans are for personal, non-commercial use only and can be used in SIM enabled tablets or
laptops and portable mobile WI-FI devices and is uncapped for this use. This SIM card should not be used as a permanent
long-term alternative to home broadband. If we determine in our sole opinion that your use of the SMARTY Services is in
breach of these Terms and/or exceeds that reasonably expected of someone using the Service for legitimate personal, non-
commercial use, then we may at our discretion terminate (in accordance with Section 9), or Suspend (in accordance with
Section 8), or restrict your SMARTY Service. As an example, without limitation, we consider that if you regularly tether more
than 8 devices that this is unlikely to be legitimate personal, non-commercial use.

Edited March 31, 2023 by IanD

[GUMPY]

37 minutes ago, IanD said:

😉Smaty SIM-only prices today:

 

Phone : £20 unlimited, £17 200GB, £10 60GB, £8 12GB, £7 8GB, £5 4GB -

 

Data : £20 unlimited, £17 100GB, £13 40GB, £9 15GB, £5 2GB --

 

.

 

 

as I said

 

 

Just to add I've been with Smarty for 2.5 years and only ever paid for one month the rest have been free and I still have £80 bonus credit with them 😉

Edited March 31, 2023 by Loddon

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, Loddon said:

 

as I said 😉

 

I was just providing the prices -- but note that the unlimited plans are the same price, and the 15GB data plan is cheaper per GB than the 12GB phone -- so you're correct for some plans and wrong for others... 😉

 

If you can wait the best thing to do is to grab a good special offer -- phone or data -- when they appear, which they do regularly 🙂

Edited March 31, 2023 by IanD

[GUMPY]

15gb that's only a day or two,  hardly worth getting. Remember with Smarty if you run out of data you can't just skip onto the next month you have to buy data at a different price. ☹️

 

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

15gb that's only a day or two,  hardly worth getting. Remember with Smarty if you run out of data you can't just skip onto the next month you have to buy data at a different price. ☹️

 

 

I'd have thought most people using this for home broadband -- which is effectively what boaters are doing -- are likely to go with one of the bigger plans -- at least the £10 60GB, and if that's not enough the £20 unlimited one -- which as I said is the same price for both, the phone one is no cheaper.

 

But rather than buy a router (e.g. £200 for a refurb NR5103E) and pay £20 a month for unlimited Smarty data, if you're on the boat full-time and don't mind the contract you can get the same router brand new with Three for £20 a month (24 month contract) with 3 months free, which works out a lot cheaper than Smarty... 😉

 

Smarty are good in many cases, but not *always* the best deal... 😉

[GUMPY]

You would be hard pressed to beat my smarty deal

2.5 years  for £20 only paid for first month

All internet since then free

And £97 bonus credit

Plus 3 x £10 Amazon voucher

Pity they changed the free month when you introduce someone 

I now only get a £10 amazon voucher 

 

https://i.smarty.co.uk/juliant-139

 

 

 

 

Usage last month was only  160gb

 

[IanD]

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

You would be hard pressed to beat my smarty deal

2.5 years  for £20 only paid for first month

All internet since then free

And £97 bonus credit

Plus 3 x £10 Amazon voucher

Pity they changed the free month when you introduce someone 

I now only get a £10 amazon voucher 

 

https://i.smarty.co.uk/juliant-139

 

 

Your deal would be hard to bet, because you've paid for it by introducing other people to Smarty. Some might say this doesn't exactly make you impartial about their benefits, any more than we can believe Tory MPs enthusing about a company who's paying them a backhander... 😉

 

Needless to say, your deal is not one available to everybody -- pyramid selling only works for those at the top of the pyramid... 🙂

Edited March 31, 2023 by IanD

[GUMPY]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

Needless to say, your deal is not one available to everybody -

It was,

There are at least two others on here that have done similar. And everybody I introduced got a free month and up until this year could have done the same.

Similar recommend a friend  with Giffgaff that I use for the SMS heating/comms package on the boat, that has cost me nothing for the initial outlay of £10 as its payg.

 

Playing the system is great but you have to be dedicated.

 

Anyone want £10 bonus from Smarty?

https://i.smarty.co.uk/juliant-139

 

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, Loddon said:

It was,

There are at least two others on here that have done similar. And everybody I introduced got a free month and up until this year could have done the same.

Similar recommend a friend  with Giffgaff that I use for the SMS heating/comms package on the boat, that has cost me nothing for the initial outlay of £10 as its payg.

 

Playing the system is great but you have to be dedicated.

 

Anyone want £10 bonus from Smarty?

https://i.smarty.co.uk/juliant-139

 

So it's not available to others now then -- which is precisely what I said... 😉

 

I know you love Smarty, but you're coming over all evangelical about them, like Peter does about EVs... 🙂

Edited March 31, 2023 by IanD

[GUMPY]

5 minutes ago, IanD said:

So it's not available to others now then -- which is precisely what I said... 😉

 

I know you love Smarty, but you're coming over all evangelical about them, like Peter does about EVs... 🙂

I don't love Smarty, you cant love an inanimate thing.

You still get £10 so that's 60gb just not a free unlimited month.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Loddon

[IanD]

6 minutes ago, Loddon said:

I don't love Smarty, you cant love an inanimate thing.

You still get £10 so that's 60gb just not a free unlimited month.

 

And if you want unlimited data every month and a new 5G router and don't mind a contract, Three are cheaper.

 

Smarty are great in many cases -- especially on/off use -- but not the best in *all* cases, even if they are for you for historical reasons... 🙂

Edited March 31, 2023 by IanD