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Boat purchase and no Bill of sale?


SteveLevis

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2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I think a broker is classed as a "Distributor" under the regulations, so failure to comply with their duties mean they have committed an offence.

A broker isn't a distributor in the sense that the term is usually used for new goods. A distributer would normally buy the goods from the manufacturer then sell them on to consumers in a particular country or market. Whereas a broker is only an agent for the vendor (of a second hand boat).

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19 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

You appear to have quoted the RCR which came into force in 2017, not the RCD which we were discussing. I was under the impression the boat the OP is considering is pre-2017, although having reviewed the thread I can't see it mentioned when it was built. 

 

That doesn't matter as the RCR 2017 revoked and replaced the RCR 2004.  The legal duty on the broker is that in the current regulations - the age of the boat only matters because it carries a CE marking (assuming it does!)

 

Once a craft has been CE marked (or UKCA marked now) it must not be re-offered on the market if it's not in compliance with it's CE mark which includes the full documentation.

 

Liability for this rests with a broker if used, and the regs specifically exclude the "but he said it was OK" defence.

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A broker isn't a distributor in the sense that the term is usually used for new goods. A distributer would normally buy the goods from the manufacturer then sell them on to consumers in a particular country or market. Whereas a broker is only an agent for the vendor (of a second hand boat).

 

That's why I quoted the applicable text above:

 

Interpretation

2.—(1) In these Regulations—

[snip]

“distributor” means a person in the supply chain, other than the manufacturer or the importer, who makes a product available on the market;

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A broker isn't a distributor in the sense that the term is usually used for new goods. A distributer would normally buy the goods from the manufacturer then sell them on to consumers in a particular country or market. Whereas a broker is only an agent for the vendor (of a second hand boat).

 

When in business I had several small companies in various countries around Europe who were our Distributors. They were generally small companies and did not have the cash flow to hold £ millions of stock. They would hold the stock but did not pay for it. When it was sold, they would keep their 'commission' and send the rest of the sales price to us.

Pretty much exactly what a boat broker does.

 

Wikipedia explanation of 'Consignment stock'

 

The consignment stock is stock legally owned by one party, but held by another, meaning that the risk and rewards regarding to the said stock remains with the first party while the second party is responsible for distribution or retail operations.

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Alan is quire correct with regard paperwork associated to lumpy water boats in general , especially so if they are  a type of boat that could   be exported/imported . 

 

Narrowboats on the other hand are rarely seen outside of the UK and people seem happy to pay large sums on trust . As said it would be wise to ask for some evidence that the person you are paying owns the boat.  eg insurance certs etc .

 

Be very careful in case of any situations where there might be joint ownership which is quite common. You might well need more than one person to agree to the deal. 

 

 

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Hi, my boat was built in 2006 and I bought it in 2018 from the guy who had it from new. The hull is stamped with a serial number described in the builders paperwork as a “Hin” and a “Cin” number. None of the paperwork mentions RCD but there is a document called a declaration of conformity. It’s signed and dated by the builder and lists a load of ISO and British Standards that the boat complies with.

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29 minutes ago, MichaelG said:

None of the paperwork mentions RCD but there is a document called a declaration of conformity. It’s signed and dated by the builder and lists a load of ISO and British Standards that the boat complies with.

 

That is the RCD certificate of compliance / conformity.

 

That seems to be becoming a valuable document, take a copy and keep it safe.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Remember that up until 2017 there were many part built boats, from shell to almost complete, sold with the hull RCD only, and no certification of the self build fit out, also there are many boats modernised upgraded with no certification, so it is probable the RCD on over 50% of boats is dodgy / out of date. Lack of a full trail doesn't make it a bad boat. as theroretically even replacing the batteries with a different brand / size can invalidate the RCD and fitting solar definately will, so you must get a survey to see if the boat is in good order and well maintained.  An RCD alone is not enough on an old boat, which may have sat on the bank somewhere for 5 years with no proper paint on it and now someone has slapped a coat on over the rust.  Caveat Emptor remeber and there are brokers and brokers, just like there are used car salesman of all types.

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21 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

I am looking forward to the conversation if and when I ever sell my boat. It was cut in half 25 years ago, so it's not entirely clear which Scholar Gypsy you could be buying....  We have some paperwork

 

That's not exactly in half. ;)

 

If one section has a CE mark and both the visible and hidden HIN/WIN/CIN then make sure the paperwork is kept with that bit and updated to the correct length!

 

If done after June 98 then the offcut probably should have been inspected and certified as a new boat ...

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3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

That's not exactly in half. ;)

 

If one section has a CE mark and both the visible and hidden HIN/WIN/CIN then make sure the paperwork is kept with that bit and updated to the correct length!

 

If done after June 98 then the offcut probably should have been inspected and certified as a new boat ...

June 1994, so the alphabet soup does not apply...

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23 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Is the small half still about?

 

I rather doubt it.  It was renamed FROG, and operated around the boatyard in Braunston for a bit.  I think I last saw it on the offside bank just north of the M45 bridge on the North Oxford, I would guess over ten years ago (but as noted above I am a bit hazy on dates). 

There's another similar boat, which I think is still moored up near the ladder bridge in Braunston. 

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2 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

I rather doubt it.  It was renamed FROG, and operated around the boatyard in Braunston for a bit.  I think I last saw it on the offside bank just north of the M45 bridge on the North Oxford, I would guess over ten years ago (but as noted above I am a bit hazy on dates). 

There's another similar boat, which I think is still moored up near the ladder bridge in Braunston. 

 

The other one was MOUSE, iirc.

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26 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I am curious.

why would you chop a boat up like that?

For what reason?

The little boats resulting,seem to me to be pretty useless.

Am I missing something?

The little boats look like quite useful pusher tugs, but I'm similarly curious as to why cut off the back bit of a boat to then weld on a new bit when the bit cut off still had enough life in it to make a serviceable boat.

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2 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

I am curious.

why would you chop a boat up like that?

For what reason?

The little boats resulting,seem to me to be pretty useless.

Am I missing something?

As I understand it they were specifically made to be able to turn round in the tunnels to push boats in and out for maintenance

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3 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

I am curious.

why would you chop a boat up like that?

For what reason?

The little boats resulting,seem to me to be pretty useless.

Am I missing something?

 

Yes. MOUSE and FROG were built so short for use in the restoration of Braunston Tunnel. They needed to be short enough to turn around inside the tunnel. 

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2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

Yes. MOUSE and FROG were built so short for use in the restoration of Braunston Tunnel. They needed to be short enough to turn around inside the tunnel. 

Ah,right thanks.

Didn't they have reverse gear?😃

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6 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

I am curious.

why would you chop a boat up like that?

For what reason?

The little boats resulting, seem to me to be pretty useless.

Am I missing something?


It's quite a long story, but basically the original boat (45') had no access from the inside of the boat to the stern. This made sense when we had the boat built - my father and I both took the view that steering was a solitary activity - but less so as my parents got older. They also quite fancied a fixed double berth.

 

The boatyard suggested a part exchange, and then built a new bow to create FROG. Originally we were going to move the engine (BMC preloved 1.5)  from the old boat to the new one, but eventually decided that a new engine would be more sensible. 

 

I had not heard the theory about the tunnel before, indeed I wasn't aware there had been major works there in the 1990s.

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16 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

I had not heard the theory about the tunnel before, indeed I wasn't aware there had been major works there in the 1990s.

 

It's been written about several times on this forum, which I why I repeated it. Maybe it is fiction! 

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