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RCR/Key Diesels


David Mack

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I don't often watch Narrowboat Girl's videos, but I gather they were recently stuck on the Oxford for some time with engine problems. In the end RCR fitted a reconditioned engine from Key Diesels and they were on the move again. And a few days later they are not. Engine won't start. Somebody came out yesterday and fiddled with it and it started. This morning it wouldn't.

 

It's probably something fairly minor, but non-technical boaters like NBG and her Mum are reliant on the services (?) of RCR. What better alternative is there?

 

 

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30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

I don't often watch Narrowboat Girl's videos, but I gather they were recently stuck on the Oxford for some time with engine problems. In the end RCR fitted a reconditioned engine from Key Diesels and they were on the move again. And a few days later they are not. Engine won't start. Somebody came out yesterday and fiddled with it and it started. This morning it wouldn't.

 

It's probably something fairly minor, but non-technical boaters like NBG and her Mum are reliant on the services (?) of RCR. What better alternative is there?

 

 

 

Presumably the alternative is calling out a mobile engineer based in the general area, ideally one recommended by a local boater but otherwise someone found on t'internet. Not sure how anyone else would cover the parts insurance bit

 

From personal experience of RCR simply taking too long to resolve a problem the engineer they actually sent me could have solved in a much shorter time frame if I'd been paying by the hour so he could have had the gearbox off on his first visit, I'd say that was probably a good bet. But I can imagine the quality and cost effectiveness of those engineers being more variable than RCR's

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Another RCR and Key fail similar to the ones I have been banging on about for ages. I won't entertain either company ( RCR own Key ) wouldn't trust them to fit a fan belt.

 

This story repeats and runs on like a bad dream, no, a nightmare for the victims.

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27 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Another RCR and Key fail similar to the ones I have been banging on about for ages. I won't entertain either company ( RCR own Key ) wouldn't trust them to fit a fan belt.

 

 

A 'new' reconditioned engine from Key I recently saw had not even had a new fanbelt fitted. Guess what failed after 15 hours?

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4 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Another RCR and Key fail similar to the ones I have been banging on about for ages. I won't entertain either company ( RCR own Key ) wouldn't trust them to fit a fan belt.

 

This story repeats and runs on like a bad dream, no, a nightmare for the victims.

 

When RCR first appeared on the scene and having done the odd bit of breakdown work decades ago when I was at Windsor Marina, I was amazed that anyone thought the business proposition viable. It was common for me to drive for half an hour, then trudge a mile with a toolbox to a broken down boat even to just diagnose the fault, let alone fix it in one visit. Sometimes we would return by boat rather than road and foot. How can any business make money out of breakdowns given the sheer amount of time and money necessary to fix random breakdowns on random boats?

 

I suspect original the business spreadsheet shows loads of 'members' paying a hundred or two a year and an unrealistically low number of actual breakdowns. What I suspect has actually happened is loads of people signed up making the business look viable but as the years clicked by more and more call-outs came and the repairs got more and more expensive as the older and less reliable boats saw a good deal and signed up.  Time and again I hear stories from members who signed up, paid a couple of years' premia and then had a four figure breakdown repair carried out by RCR, nearly always a new gearbox. How can this make a viable business?

 

Now my guess is the owners are trying to wring a profit from the operation by paying peanuts to the subby engineers being sent out, hence their reluctance to spend much time or money on the first call-out. Even when they have the technical ability to fix something efficiently the low pay for the initial visit makes them reluctant to spend much time on the boat. Similarly when RCR office get told by the engineer that yet another expensive and possibly unnecessary recon engine or recon gearbox is needed (as a result of reluctance to fix on the spot but still to get paid for the visit), RCR seek out the very cheapest "engine remanufacturers" where consequently every expense has to be spared in a rebuild. 

 

Just my reading of the situation. I think RCR are selling a mirage and it will all come horribly unsewn eventually as I can't imagine how the business can possibly be profitable, other than by not delivering much of a service. Just as we are seeing nowadays. 

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What is the alternative?

If you are stranded in some northern outpost on the tops, you will be lucky to get one engineer to turn out, and he may be the same guy used by RCR. 

I'm not a member, because I have well maintained boat..... it can never happen to me...... Weep 

Edited by LadyG
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Membership gives you a contact wherever you are, and one point of contact for moans/updates.  The insurance aspect of the higher covers is useful. As with road breakdown services, you will be left with an outside contractor and have to make decisions accordingly, but at least you are attended to and assisted. You are under no obligation to have their own repairer.

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2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Exactly - just like having a dog and still barking yourself.

Not really. Staying with your animal analogy, if you go to the vet that you have a 'pet plan' membership with your dog and get a diagnosis, you can then decide on the appropriate treatment or a second opinion.

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

What is the alternative?

 

1) Find a marine engineer you trust and can employ directly

2) Mend breakdowns yourself

3) Live on the bank - nobody is forced to buy a boat

 

 

Opening out the debate, I suspect the existence of RCR has partly contributed to the rise in the number of liveaboards, especially those who are not so handy at maintaining stuff. I can think of quite a few CCers whose decision to CC was (partially) helped along by the thought that RCR will come to their aid in the event of a breakdown. Who may not have had the confidence to go for it had RCR not existed.

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6 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

1) Find a marine engineer you trust and can employ directly

2) Mend breakdowns yourself

3) Live on the bank - nobody is forced to buy a boat

 

 

Opening out the debate, I suspect the existence of RCR has partly contributed to the rise in the number of liveaboards, especially those who are not so handy at maintaining stuff. I can think of quite a few CCers whose decision to CC was (partially) helped along by the thought that RCR will come to their aid in the event of a breakdown. Who may not have had the confidence to go for it had RCR not existed.

 

 

I think there is a lot of truth in that.

 

As boat prices continue to increase people on low incomes or with little deposit & looking to get onto the 'housing ladder' are being forced into buying boats that would have been condemmed and probably scrapped a few years ago.

 

The availability of a breakdown service probably means that the 'mechanically inept' (or physically challenged) can buy a 'wreck of a boat' with impunity knowing that someone will come and get them to a safe haven, or repair the problem.

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15 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

Not really. Staying with your animal analogy, if you go to the vet that you have a 'pet plan' membership with your dog and get a diagnosis, you can then decide on the appropriate treatment or a second opinion.

 

But the RCR problems are two-fold :

 

Incorrect diagnosis - how many times do we see reports of boats left stuck for weeks having been diagnosed with gear box failure and awaiting delivery of a new gear box, when it was subsequently found to be the drive plates.

 

Even when a correct diagnosis is made, the installation of the new components (in this case the engine) is not undertaken correctly, with things missing, or not fitted properly - one such incident was when the engine mounts were not bolted down.

 

If you are paying money for a professional service, I'd expect to receive what I am paying for.

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6 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

I think there is a lot of truth in that.

 

As boat prices continue to increase people on low incomes or with little deposit & looking to get onto the 'housing ladder' are being forced into buying boats that would have been condemmed and probably scrapped a few years ago.

 

The availability of a breakdown service probably means that the 'mechanically inept' (or physically challenged) can buy a 'wreck of a boat' with impunity knowing that someone will come and get them to a safe haven, or repair the problem.

 

And I bet "Narrowboat Girl" whose video started this thread is a good example. 

 

Not wishing to be mean but

 

1) two women who seem broadly clueless might not have chosen to live on a boat but for the existence of RCR, and 

2) Looking at their "stuck on a rock" video, their boat looks to me both really old and not well maintained, just as you describe 

 

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This year I have had 4 prop fouls that I really struggled to clear (that's the Rochdale 😀), in fact one was done for me by a CRT volunteer whilst I bow hauled.

It occurred to me "what would I do if I really couldn't sort it and is this the sort of thing that RCR would help with?".

 

I suspect for some boaters RCR gives a nice feeling of security that help is on hand if required and phoning them is a whole lot easier than trying to find a local engineer willing to help.

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

This year I have had 4 prop fouls that I really struggled to clear (that's the Rochdale 😀), in fact one was done for me by a CRT volunteer whilst I bow hauled.

It occurred to me "what would I do if I really couldn't sort it and is this the sort of thing that RCR would help with?".

 

I suspect for some boaters RCR gives a nice feeling of security that help is on hand if required and phoning them is a whole lot easier than trying to find a local engineer willing to help.

 

or trying to source arts locally, says he who walked miles through Burton carrying an alternator to get a new one. At least I knew enough to know that the red light did not mean stop right now so could get to a larger town where parts were likely to be easier to come by.

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4 minutes ago, dmr said:

I suspect for some boaters RCR gives a nice feeling of security that help is on hand if required and phoning them is a whole lot easier than trying to find a local engineer willing to help.

 

 

Yes exactly. That warm fuzzy feeling of knowing you are 'insured' contributes substantially to a proportion of boaters' confidence to actually go boating.

 

The reality of it does not always match the expectation as the threads on here about RCR illustrate. But to be fair on them, I bet there are a lot of callouts where they fix something trivial for clueless boaters who are consequently delighted with the service. Mild prop fouls are probably a good example. 

8 minutes ago, dmr said:

This year I have had 4 prop fouls that I really struggled to clear (that's the Rochdale 😀),

 

 

You're really not selling me on bringing a boat up there very well Dave! 

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The answer is for those who go boating to make time beforehand to study and learn how everything on their own boat works and how to prevent it from breaking down and then how to fix it when it breaks.

This is not as difficult as it sounds - if boaters only ever purchased boats that matched their personal understanding and ability there would be a lot more happy boaters.

There is an alternative to this and that is to hire in the expertise but few can really afford to employ a resident boat fitter/gas fitter/engineer/electrician!

 

Edited by NB Alnwick
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To some extent are RCR just an insurance company and a call forwarding centre?

A friend recently had a breakdown. She was new to the area so her options were either RCR or phoning round local boatyards, possibly after using Facebook groups to get recommendations.  RCR got somebody out pretty quick and new parts were obtained and  fitted a couple of days later.

I believe the engineer who came out suggested that it would likely work out cheaper if she paid him directly for the parts and repair rather than going through RCR? I think she probably had an RCR retainer as part of her insurance?

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21 minutes ago, dmr said:

 

It occurred to me "what would I do if I really couldn't sort it and is this the sort of thing that RCR would help with?".

 

 

Yes, they would. Their aim is to "get you going", so anything to do with running gear is within their sphere of activity. They don't do domestics, so they aren't interested in fixing your cooker or your shower.

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