Blacking Recommendations Cheshire

[Tony1]

 

Just a general question, sort of related to the issue of whether it is worth treating the bottom plate or not:  

 

At what age- generally speaking- do narrowboat hulls start to leak?

And is it most often the base plate where this happens first? 

 

And if the bottom plate had holes and thin metal in half a dozen places, what would be the rough cost of overplating, or other remedial treatments?

 

I ask because it might put a different perspective on the question of whether its worth treating the bottom plate. 

I really dont want to have to treat the bottom plate, but if its more or less certain to hit serious issues in say 15-20 years (its 6 years old now), then it might work out cheaper in the long term to actually get the base plate treated, perhaps every 3rd blacking? 

 

I dont see it as a personal issue for me, since I probably wont even have the boat- and I may not even be alive- when the boat starts to develop base plate issues. 

But its still interesting to compare the extra costs of blacking the base (every 6 years let's say), vs the cost of overplating when its 25 years old. I'd be interested in how the various costs stack up. And in fact, would such treatment be likely to prevent/delay base plate thinning anyway? 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Tony1

[Tracy D'arth]

3 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

 

Just a general question, sort of related to the issue of whether it is worth treating the bottom plate or not:  

 

At what age- generally speaking- do narrowboat hulls start to leak?

And is it most often the base plate where this happens first? 

 

And if the bottom plate had holes and thin metal in half a dozen places, what would be the rough cost of overplating, or other remedial treatments?

 

I ask because it might put a different perspective on the question of whether its worth treating the bottom plate. 

I really dont want to have to treat the bottom plate, but if its more or less certain to hit serious issues in say 15-20 years (its 6 years old now), then it might work out cheaper in the long term to actually get the base plate treated, perhaps every 3rd blacking? 

 

I dont see it as a personal issue for me, since I probably wont even have the boat- and I may not even be alive- when the boat starts to develop base plate issues. 

But its still interesting to compare the extra costs of blacking the base (every 6 years let's say), vs the cost of overplating when its 25 years old. I'd be interested in how the various costs stack up. And in fact, would such treatment be likely to prevent/delay base plate thinning anyway? 

 

Taking care of the hull, epoxy and treating the base plate as well as the sides will add value at resale time. Overplating will remove value even if well done. Most modern boats are 10mm base plates, overplating is generally only 6mm due to the added weight reducing the freeboard.

[David Mack]

7 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

At what age- generally speaking- do narrowboat hulls start to leak?

The issue isn't generally leakage.  Insurers get very jittery once the plate thickness gets below 4 mm, and you probably have years before a 4 mm plate rusts down to 0 mm.

[Pie Eater]

Have a look at The Narrowboat Pirate vlog on utube. She recently blacked her boat at Northwich and did the base as well.

[Tony1]

 

 

17 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

Have a look at The Narrowboat Pirate vlog on utube. She recently blacked her boat at Northwich and did the base as well.

 

Thanks, yes- I do watch her videos, and I saw that one. 

She's one of the few vloggers who I find fun and interesting to watch, along with David Johns of course, and the ever-quirky Robbie Cumming (whose series about the L+L are still my all time favourite canal vlogs). 

It still slightly surprises me that so many people whose delivery style is catastrophically pedestrian and dull could imagine that they will make interesting vloggers, but despite my reservations they are springing into life by the hundreds. 

But I digress.

The vloggers- in all their shapes, sizes, and their multitudinous guises- are a whole subject unto themselves, and I dont want to derail the OPs useful thread. 

 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Tony1

[WillCful]

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Aqueduct is very expensive.  You would do better to cruise to Debdale on the GU Leicester section, get a better job done for a lot less money. Its a pleasant trip too.

I was considering this! Still waiting for a quote from them, would love to do the journey. How long do you think cruising time would be from Macclesfield? 
 

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

Why not, it comes in two containers, you give them a good mix, my jotamastic was summer grade, not thick like bitumen, it was fairly warm weather, and the three coats went on well, boat gained about a knot! 

I had eight days in boatyard, they wanted to give me four, but that's no good for two pack epoxy. 

If weather had been adverse, I'd have had to keep surface dry somehow. 

I did the inside hull last year with Jotamastic 90 (winter grade), did you

brush and roller the outside or hire spray equipment? 

 

 

[LadyG]

9 minutes ago, WillCful said:

I was considering this! Still waiting for a quote from them, would love to do the journey. How long do you think cruising time would be from Macclesfield? 
 

I did the inside hull last year with Jotamastic 90 (winter grade), did you

brush and roller the outside or hire spray equipment? 

 

 

Brush and roller, very easy. The kit from SML saved about £50, even includes a good coverall suit, which I washed, and it's good for summer painting. I also bought paint for the roof, again good price, good advice (no connection) 

Edited December 6, 2021 by LadyG

[WillCful]

On 06/12/2021 at 19:57, Pie Eater said:

Have a look at The Narrowboat Pirate vlog on utube. She recently blacked her boat at Northwich and did the base as well.

Just watched this, they did a great job and for the cost of paint and dock fees it’s a good deal too! 
 

I like the combo of the Jotun 90 AL as a primer and standard 90 over the top. 
 

I just wished the boat could have been moved slight to coat the ‘missed’ bits under the supports! Also, I’m not sure how the epoxy does getting wet like that before it’s been able to fully harden? I wonder if the Jotun 90 is surface tolerant enough that it’s not a problem…

[haggis]

I haven't watched the video but the twice we were in Northwich the painting was finished on the Tuesday and the boat wasn't back in the water till the saturday. It would have been good if the boat could be moved to give access to all the base plate but you can work that out the next time the boat is in 🙂 

 

haggis

[WillCful]

14 minutes ago, haggis said:

I haven't watched the video but the twice we were in Northwich the painting was finished on the Tuesday and the boat wasn't back in the water till the saturday. It would have been good if the boat could be moved to give access to all the base plate but you can work that out the next time the boat is in 🙂 

 

haggis

Yeah definitely easy to arrange extra time in dry dock for curing before re-float. Ah, you haven't watched it, it rains a lot in the video! Applying epoxy outdoors is definitely a fair weather job I can't imagine it likes to get wet before full cure.

[nicknorman]

10 hours ago, WillCful said:

Just watched this, they did a great job and for the cost of paint and dock fees it’s a good deal too! 
 

I like the combo of the Jotun 90 AL as a primer and standard 90 over the top. 
 

I just wished the boat could have been moved slight to coat the ‘missed’ bits under the supports! Also, I’m not sure how the epoxy does getting wet like that before it’s been able to fully harden? I wonder if the Jotun 90 is surface tolerant enough that it’s not a problem…

The epoxy doesn’t need to fully harden before it’s put back in the water, because it hardens by curing (chemical reaction) not by drying (evaporation of solvents). However it does have to initially dry (solvent evaporation) and partially cure before going in the water. Obviously the time needed before putting back in the water depends on the temperature and particular type of blacking - read the instructions!

 

this is the stuff we used…

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by nicknorman

[ditchcrawler]

12 hours ago, WillCful said:

Just watched this, they did a great job and for the cost of paint and dock fees it’s a good deal too! 
 

I like the combo of the Jotun 90 AL as a primer and standard 90 over the top. 
 

I just wished the boat could have been moved slight to coat the ‘missed’ bits under the supports! Also, I’m not sure how the epoxy does getting wet like that before it’s been able to fully harden? I wonder if the Jotun 90 is surface tolerant enough that it’s not a problem…

Northwich Drydock records where the boat is sitting buy the bow mooring when the dock is drained, next time they bottom the boat out in a different spot .

[WillCful]

43 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Northwich Drydock records where the boat is sitting buy the bow mooring when the dock is drained, next time they bottom the boat out in a different spot .

That's cool, good service.

 

They do have a gantry I think as well, so could potentially move it a bit once dock is drained? Obviously they would charge you for this...

[ditchcrawler]

2 hours ago, WillCful said:

That's cool, good service.

 

They do have a gantry I think as well, so could potentially move it a bit once dock is drained? Obviously they would charge you for this...

That is to lift the dock gate, I doubt it would lift a boat

[MardyBum]

Resurrecting this to ask (on the off chance they still check the forum) @WillCful where they ended up going in the end, or if anyone else has had a good grit-blasting/epoxy experience at Aqueduct, Swanley, or anywhere else, midlands/northwest way recently?

Have had quotes from Debdale (who we've we've used previously for other work, but are far from home) and Aqueduct (who are closer, have a good sales spiel but have had a number of less than favourable reviews recently).

 

Ta!

Edited January 4 by MardyBum

[Pie Eater]

The narrowboatpirate vlog mentions shot blasting at  Wincham Wharf in her vlog this week.

[nealeST]

29 minutes ago, Pie Eater said:

The narrowboatpirate vlog mentions shot blasting at  Wincham Wharf in her vlog this week.

Yes saw that and visited them to look at a boat last autumn. They quoted me 4k for blasting and epoxy for a 62 ft boat. 

[Tracy D'arth]

2 minutes ago, nealeST said:

Yes saw that and visited them to look at a boat last autumn. They quoted me 4k for blasting and epoxy for a 62 ft boat. 

And at Wincham you can get under the hull to do the bottom plate at no extra on shore cost.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, nealeST said:

Yes saw that and visited them to look at a boat last autumn. They quoted me 4k for blasting and epoxy for a 62 ft boat. 

 

Thinking about prices I've seen quoted previously, for that price, I'd be be a little concerned about the qulaity of the job I'd be getting.

[nealeST]

Some serious work going on there from what I saw. I was impressed and found them very pleasant and helpful. 

[Tracy D'arth]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Thinking about prices I've seen quoted previously, for that price, I'd be be a little concerned about the qulaity of the job I'd be getting.

I have used Tomaz at Wincham and have no worries about the standard of work.

[MardyBum]

Thanks all - will get in touch with Wincham. @Tracy D'arth just to clarify, did you have your boat grit blasted/epoxied there?

[Tracy D'arth]

7 minutes ago, MardyBum said:

Thanks all - will get in touch with Wincham. @Tracy D'arth just to clarify, did you have your boat grit blasted/epoxied there?

We did our own there but he has done a couple for folk that we know and they were very happy.  It is a busy yard, lots of DIY. He also re-bottomed  a boat for our neighbour, ground the sides off and blacked it. It has lasted very well, 4 years on it looks new.

We also know of one grit blasted and epoxy  at Aqueduct for a lot of money and it is not a good job, peeling.