A cautionary You Tube post.

[magnetman]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

It's unlikely that the boat deteriorated that much in 3 years, and according to the video the current yard have said there is no evidence that the hull was ground off to get clean patches for ultrasound testing when it was surveyed. But proving that in a court of law is quite another matter. But at least it seems her insurance's legal cover is taking that aspect on, so she shouldn't end up more out of pocket for legal costs.

 

And meanwhile the surveyor's 'good name' is protected.

 

Most surveyors will have multiple echo ultrasonic thickness testers. I'm not a surveyor but I do have a Cygnus instrument and It does not need paint to be removed in order to gauge the thickness of the steel below the coating. 

 

Industry standard equipment for quite a few years now. 

 

That boatyard sounds like they might be a bit behind the times if they have commented on patches ground off for testing on a survey carried out 3 years ago. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by magnetman
Edit to remove racist sex references

[Athy]

2 hours ago, PD1964 said:

 

 When you walk on the boat it’s obvious that it has been flashed over,

 

 

That's a new expression to me. I assume it means "cosmetically improved or renovated". or, to use a less elegant phrase, "tarted up".

Is it of your own invention?

Edited December 5, 2021 by Athy

[PD1964]

11 minutes ago, Athy said:

That's a new expression to me. I assume it means "cosmetically improved or renovated". or, to use a less elegant phrase, "tarted up".

Is it of your own invention?

It’s had a Claire Sweeney 60 minute make over, everything painted Magnolia, cheap worktop and sink, new carpets and the seller never to be seen again😂

Edited December 5, 2021 by PD1964

[Athy]

1 minute ago, PD1964 said:

It’s had a Claire Sweeney 60 minute make over, everything painted Magnolia,  cheap worktop and sink, new carpets and the seller never to be seen again😂

So that's a "yes" to the first part of my query.

I have no knowledge of Claire Sweeney; was she married to a 1970s T.V. detective?

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, matty40s said:

The online shop was clearly shown on the video, with links, I'm not sure how you missed it!!

 

It's also in the video description.

To make it easy for you FMB (floatmyboatdesigns.co.uk)

[Mad Harold]

7 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

It’s had a Claire Sweeney 60 minute make over, everything painted Magnolia, cheap worktop and sink, new carpets and the seller never to be seen again😂

I have been had like that.

A rather handsome narrowboat with (allegedly)a new fitout.It looked rather nice inside,but I found in cold weather the boat was freezing apart from a few feet around the (centrally mounted) stove.When stripping some of the trim off to fix a leaking window,I found that there was no insulation at all.

It was surveyed When I bought it,but the surveyor obviously didn't check thia.

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Mike Tee said:

That's a bit harsh considering she took on legal cover (at her cost) which is now paying to chase the surveyor. Also she is working hard to make stuff to sell - where is she asking for money? The only request is for folk to look at her website and maybe buy something she has worked at.

https://gofund.me/29939d6d

[David Mack]

20 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

It’s had a Claire Sweeney 60 minute make over, everything painted Magnolia, cheap worktop and sink, new carpets and the seller never to be seen again😂

 

17 minutes ago, Athy said:

So that's a "yes" to the first part of my query.

I have no knowledge of Claire Sweeney; was she married to a 1970s T.V. detective?

 

I'd never heard of her either so I googled. Apparently she was in the band Steps, Then Makeover: "Claire Sweeney and her army of helpers surprise deserving people and everyday heroes across the country with a stunning home makeover – performed in a day and brought to you in just 60 minutes. In each episode, one deserving person nominated by their friends and family will get the surprise home makeover of a lifetime." Sounds like another of those daytime TV shows that passed me by entirely!

[PD1964]

7 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

I'd never heard of her either so I googled. Apparently she was in the band Steps, Then Makeover: "Claire Sweeney and her army of helpers surprise deserving people and everyday heroes across the country with a stunning home makeover – performed in a day and brought to you in just 60 minutes. In each episode, one deserving person nominated by their friends and family will get the surprise home makeover of a lifetime." Sounds like another of those daytime TV shows that passed me by entirely!

I don’t think she was in Steps, most famous for her role in Brookside “Laaa”

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, Mad Harold said:

Last time I looked at Kedian's website,he was Quoting £200 per foot for overplating.

Don't think he's the cheapest by any means.

And if she has a 50’ ish boat that brings the price down towards the £10,000 mark. 
 

Still a fair wad of money to find, but maybe a more realistic price ?

 

 

[Athy]

13 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

Apparently she was in the band Steps, Then Makeover: "Claire Sweeney and her army of helpers surprise deserving people and everyday heroes across the country with a stunning home makeover – performed in a day and brought to you in just 60 minutes. In each episode, one deserving person nominated by their friends and family will get the surprise home makeover of a lifetime." Sounds like another of those daytime TV shows that passed me by entirely!

Sounds like a show I must not fail to miss.

[PD1964]

2 hours ago, Goliath said:

And if she has a 50’ ish boat that brings the price down towards the £10,000 mark. 
 

Still a fair wad of money to find, but maybe a more realistic price ?

 

 

I image as people have said with the price of steel going up weekly if not daily it would be hard to give an accurate quote and a final price. With rising prices and costs a final price could be thousands more then the original quote with steel.

  There seams to be a thing about overplating  with young people looking for/at cheap Narrowboats, most seam happy to buy a Narrowboat that needs some form of overplating. Like I said a boat has arrived in our Marina: Boat £20K ish, Overplating and work £22K, total spent £42K ish, Boat value after work £20K ish.  Makes absolutely no sense.

Edited December 5, 2021 by PD1964

[Mike Tee]

3 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

https://gofund.me/29939d6d

That's already covered in a previous post - the gofund thing was in response to people wanting to donate but couldn't. She never asked for a penny - watch the original YouTube thing, or if you can't find it, cruising the cut did an interview with her.

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, PD1964 said:

It’s had a Claire Sweeney 60 minute make over, everything painted Magnolia, cheap worktop and sink, new carpets and the seller never to be seen again😂

Here is a good example of that For Sale: Ramble On (nortoncanesboatbuilders.co.uk)

[john.k]

I believe steel price has quadrupled in China due to various factors,including the recent energy crisis,and the virus,and the iron ore price was record highs..............In my case this is not all bad ,as I had to clear a yard of a hundred tons of scrap steel and cast iron......approx UK 200 quid a ton......most I have ever got for steel scrap.....and for everything,even rusty roofing sheet,and old lockers........By the way,youre next shock will be copper ...its hit US$10,000 a tonne.........and nickle for stainless US$22,000 /tonne.

[LadyG]

20 hours ago, Mike Hurley said:

Sign of the modern times, Boo Hoo, im broke give me money because i cant afford my lifestyle. I worked for everything i got and proud of it, at least she has a roof over head at 250 a month for hard standing, cheaper than a flat and better than a park bench.

Sign of the times, people who have had a nice cushy life, now comfortably off, sit behind their screen sniping at folks who are struggling. If this was your daughter would you feel the same.. I suspect you might, if you are a selfish self centred type of grumpy, but hey, no one ever helped you.... 

Edited December 6, 2021 by LadyG

[john.k]

I looked at the video,the few seconds actually of the boat,the rust was substantial,to say the least,in fact so substantial........I wondered if maybe the surveyor was looking at a ring in....another boat in better condition.

[BilgePump]

Having watched the video, I can feel her utter dejection, but it is far from an entitled begging bowl story. She presents it as a cautionary tale, a professional surveyor's report was so far from the reality three years later. Sadly, her case will probably get nowhere as AdE's case and others have shown. £20k seems an awful lot to overplate even recently, but price of steel has rocketed and skilled labour in demand. If the boat got to the lift under its own steam, and it looks honest and decent enough inside, then it should be worth saving with plating. As it will need a lot (bottom and sides by the look) other things will be required like vents, waste outlet etc moving?

 

We are led to believe that we should take a surveyor's report as gospel, and they become necessary for fully comp insurance as boats get older but this one appears to have given her flawed advice. She was aware of the difference between pit-welding and overplating at 2018 survey and had doubts which were dispelled by the professional that she was employing to survey and report on it. It is not just her opinion that this advice was flawed but a recent report shares that view too. If there were problems with the boat on the 2018 report, presented as trivial, but that were actually significant, that she put off during covid, that have become critical enough to require its removal from the water, this will probably only compound the problem of proving any liability.

 

Linking to her craft store where she sells reasonably priced handmade items certainly isn't wanting someone else to fund her modest lifestyle. She has been dealt a sickening whammy and just wants to get back to life on the canals. 

[Thomas C King]

22 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

Indeed I did - even appointed a Marine Solicitior and was awaiting the court dates when the Solicitor said "are you sure you want to go ahead, you are going to lose, the surveyors small-print means the survey is absolutely worthless and has every escape clause known to mankind. You will end up paying all your costs and the Surveyors as well. Cut your losses now"

And, that was only 1 week after purchase - not 3 years.

 

It cost me over £25,000 to correct the problems the surveyor had 'missed'.

 

18 boats later and I have never had another survey.

 

When we purchased the Catamaran in Croatia I refused to have a survey, the broker said "you cannot refuse, it might have problems", I refused.

In the end he paid to have it sailed over to Italy (nowhere in Croatia could lift her as she was too big) and he paid for the survey himself, presumably taking it out of his commision.

 

Have a survey by all means, but do not expect it to find all (or even any) of the major / expensive problems, and do not expect to have any come-back on the surveyor if he gets it wrong.

 

If contractual agreements aren't worth anything, then we have to fall back to trust networks. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell which surveyors often do not find serious problems that were discovered a year or so later. It would be nice if we could rate them, but don't see such a system ever existing.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

 

If contractual agreements aren't worth anything, then we have to fall back to trust networks. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell which surveyors often do not find serious problems that were discovered a year or so later. It would be nice if we could rate them, but don't see such a system ever existing.

 

Buying a boat from some 'who is selling in the course of a business' (ie NOT a broker or private individual) gives plenty of legal protection and guarantees of refunds / repairs / returns.

But - the problem comes when that business seller has said :

 

The Buyer is free to inspect, survey and sea trial the boat and all gear and equipment included within the sale and to satisfy himself as to her condition, quality and specification. Therefore all express or implied warranties or conditions, statutory or otherwise, are hereby excluded unless specifically included in this Agreement, and the boat, her gear and equipment shall be taken with all defects and faults of description without any allowance or abatement whatsoever.

 

(Standard Terms in the sales contract so it then becomes a legal battle as to can the seller have terms that overule consumer law - does giving the buyer the opportunity to have an expert review the boat mean that the seller is absolved of the buyers rights ?) 

 

Thus passing the responsibilty back to the buyer and the surveyor, which takes us back to the value (or otherwise) of having a survey.

In many instances the surveyor will find problems which may be used to reduce the offer on the purchase price of the boat, but still does not ensure that he has actually found ALL of the problems, or (as it looks in this case) correctly diagnosed their severity.

[Tony Brooks]

42 minutes ago, Thomas C King said:

 

If contractual agreements aren't worth anything, then we have to fall back to trust networks. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell which surveyors often do not find serious problems that were discovered a year or so later. It would be nice if we could rate them, but don't see such a system ever existing.

 

and even if we started something like that on the forum you can bet that a take down notice would be issued PDQ when the bad ones started to show.

[koukouvagia]

When I bought my historic narrowboat, I was under no illusion about the condition of the hull.  I knew at some stage large parts would would have to be re-plated.  When I had the obligatory hull survey, the surveyor re-assured me that the hull was insureable and suggested that I knock off the internal rust, treat it and paint it.  Following this advice my son went right through the hull.  Lessons learnt: be very wary about following a surveyor's advice and always have some epoxy putty handy.

I certainly never thought of suing the surveyor (who has now retired) and just put the incident down to the hazards of owning an old boat.

Edited December 6, 2021 by koukouvagia

[Alan de Enfield]

21 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

..............have some epoxy putty handy.............

 

This stuff is superb and readily available from most good (UK) chandlers :

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[john.k]

Ive had steel barges gritblasted and sprayed with a fiberglass overcoat,when after blasting ,they looked like a lace curtain from the inside ........see no reason that wouldnt work in freshwater.

[system 4-50]

How much did she pay for the boat?  If it was 4s 6d then she should have expected the boat to last 10 minutes regardless of what the surveyor allegedly said.   And the 10 minutes would have been value for money (provided no raising costs were incurred).