Any advice please

[markandsha]

We are looking to buy a 57 foot canal boat wit a budget of up to 60k to live aboard from summer next year. Lets hear positives and negatives? 

I work from home so need the added luxuries of wifi and want to know if others work aboard such a narrow home? We have looked at wide beam but do not want to be restricted to the south of England. This is a tough compromise but want the luxury of travelling without restrictions.

Any help will be great

Mark 

Edited December 2, 2021 by markandsha
spelling

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, markandsha said:

We are looking to buy a 57 foot canal boat wit a budget of up to 60k to live aboard from summer next year. Lets hear positives and negatives? 

I work from home so need the added luxuries of wifi and want to know if others work aboard such a narrow home? We have looked at wide beam but do not want to be restricted to the south of England. This is a tough compromise but want the luxury of travelling without restrictions.

Any help will be great

Mark 

 

Are you looking to get a residential mooring, or are you planning to "continuously cruise" ?

 

Having had both 'anorexic' and 'fat' boats each have their merits.

 

1) narrowboat - go anywhere but very resticted in space, Try marking out a 45** foot x 6 foot x 6 foot tube in your house and see if you can live within it. A narrowboat realistically means having to dispose of 90%+ of you posessions. Get all family records, paerwork, and photos scanned and saved digitally.

 

** By the time you have taken the bow and stern off a 57 footer you will have around 45 feet of cabin space, into which you need a bedroom (8 feet), bathroom (6 feet), a Kitchen (8 feet) and office if working from home (8 feet) leaving about 15' x 6' for your leisure / dining / lounge. They are not nicknamed "sewer tubes" for nothing.

 

 

2) widebeam - go (almost) anywhere depending on your definition of 'wide' anything over 7 feet is 'wide' and the most common sizes now seem to be in the 12' - 12'6"  area.

You can have a few years down South, then have it lifted and trucked to 'North of the narrows', drop it back in and have a few years in the North. Comfort levels and space infinitely better than a Narrowboat.

[Bee]

Some narrow boats are bigger than others, that sounds daft but a few degrees of 'tumblehome' on the sides makes a difference and a sparse fit out without loads of cupboards, shelves and built in stuff really helps as does 'open plan' layout. As Alan says, you need kitchen, bathroom and living area at least.  You can combine a fixed bed room with an office, skimp on the shower /loo, have a decent open plan kitchen living room and  have plenty (!) of living space. This supposes that you might have to re arrange the boat a bit. Have a look at lots of boats, you have a reasonable budget. Personally I would not bother with any 'cruiser' stern boats, you will have tools, boots, tins of paint and lord knows what else and this can be locked away in the engine room. This was approximately what our last narrowboat was fitted out like and we had two kids on that plus a cat or two, the third kid was a step too far and we moved onto dry land. Keep it simple and its not what you can cram in that gives you a comfortable life, its the stuff that you leave out that gives you the space and comfort. Others will have different ideas. 

[markandsha]

Thank you both and definitely food for thought. And to your question, yes we plan on continuous travel. Again, thank you  

[doratheexplorer]

I live alone and work from my 55' narrowboat.  If there were 2 on here I'd want 65' minimum.  Everyone is different though.  I knew a couple who lived on a 25' grp cruiser, although they didn't work from it.

[markandsha]

7 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I live alone and work from my 55' narrowboat.  If there were 2 on here I'd want 65' minimum.  Everyone is different though.  I knew a couple who lived on a 25' grp cruiser, although they didn't work from it.

 

thanks. appreciated

[blackrose]

10 minutes ago, Bee said:

Personally I would not bother with any 'cruiser' stern boats, you will have tools, boots, tins of paint and lord knows what else and this can be locked away in the engine room. 

 

I think most of us have probably stored tins of paint and other highly flammable substances in our engine rooms at one time or another, but just for the OP's benefit it's definitely not recommended and your BSS inspector certainly won't like it. I don't think we're generally talking about tins of water-based emulsion on boats.

[StephenA]

16 minutes ago, markandsha said:

Thank you both and definitely food for thought. And to your question, yes we plan on continuous travel. Again, thank you  

 

You need to be aware that there are still quite extensive areas on the canal system that have patchy mobile phone coverage - there are a lot of areas where 4G (let alone 5G) isn't available.

 

What area of the country are you looking at? You might find that "continuous cruising" isn't actually practical in some areas as they are basically over capacity in the summer months - or rather you might not be able to moor in a location with good internet.

Edited December 2, 2021 by StephenA

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, StephenA said:

 

You need to be aware that there are still quite extensive areas on the canal system that have patch mobile phone coverage - there are a of areas where 4G (let alone 5G) isn't available.

 

 

This is often brought up, but in practice is a non-issue.  There are only a very few dead spots these days and they are easily avoided by checking the online coverage maps and just remembering where they are.  In some areas the signal can be patchy and this is easily dealt with by simply making sure you moor up precisely where the signal is.  I used a speedtest app to check when I come to moor and have been known to drag the boat along ten feet or so just so I can get a good signal where I've moored, often just moving to the other side of a bridge does the trick.  This way I've never had a problem on the following canals and rivers:  G&S, River Severn, River Avon, Stratford, Worcester & Birmingham, Staffs & Worcs, BCN, B&F, Shroppie, Llan, T&M, Cov, Oxford, Thames, Macc, GU, Ashby, River Trent, Fossdyke, Witham, Weaver, Caldon.  It possible that it's a major problem on other canals, but I doubt it. I demand a minimum of 2GB download speed, but I rarely have to go that low these days.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

This is often brought up, but in practice is a non-issue.  There are only a very few dead spots these days and they are easily avoided by checking the online coverage maps and just remembering where they are.  In some areas the signal can be patchy and this is easily dealt with by simply making sure you moor up precisely where the signal is.  I used a speedtest app to check when I come to moor and have been known to drag the boat along ten feet or so just so I can get a good signal where I've moored, often just moving to the other side of a bridge does the trick.  This way I've never had a problem on the following canals and rivers:  G&S, River Severn, River Avon, Stratford, Worcester & Birmingham, Staffs & Worcs, BCN, B&F, Shroppie, Llan, T&M, Cov, Oxford, Thames, Macc, GU, Ashby, River Trent, Fossdyke, Witham, Weaver, Caldon.  It possible that it's a major problem on other canals, but I doubt it. I demand a minimum of 2GB download speed, but I rarely have to go that low these days.

2Mb/s I presume, 2GB/s is a mere 8000x faster...

Edited December 2, 2021 by IanD

[David Mack]

What sort of work from home? If you are doing something that relies on having a computer turned on for hours a day, that will significantly add to your electricity usage. This is not an issue when it comes down a cable from the mains, but becomes hugely important when you have to generate all the electricity you use. A decent amount of solar may keep you going happily in summer, but will contribute next to nothing in winter.

Electricity generation, and the need to treat your batteries with respect if they are not to die an early death, is one of the key areas which newbie liveaboards often struggle with.

[doratheexplorer]

7 minutes ago, IanD said:

2Mb/s I presume, 2GB/s is a mere 8000x faster...

Yes sorry.  Just checked and I'm getting 21.2mbps where I am now. 

[doratheexplorer]

4 minutes ago, David Mack said:

What sort of work from home? If you are doing something that relies on having a computer turned on for hours a day, that will significantly add to your electricity usage. This is not an issue when it comes down a cable from the mains, but becomes hugely important when you have to generate all the electricity you use. A decent amount of solar may keep you going happily in summer, but will contribute next to nothing in winter.

Electricity generation, and the need to treat your batteries with respect if they are not to die an early death, is one of the key areas which newbie liveaboards often struggle with.

This is all true.  Lots of solar for spring, summer, autumn.  A good and reliable generation method for winter.  And, importantly, a mindset of minimising electrical consumption.

Edited December 2, 2021 by doratheexplorer

[LadyG]

I'd like a clear salon with a free standing table, the solid kind they have in Morisons cafe. 

This means no diner come double bed, if that's too extreme, consider two single opposing seats with a good table, so that there is a three foot walkway. 

I'd also take a marina mooring for four months, electricity is hard to come by otherwise.

I'm struggling to get my batteries topped up this week, and last week...... all I have is one tablet, a phone, and a power bank (very inefficient use of your boat batteries) No TV, and minimal lighting. I think the Poyntin WiFi gets a good name, I manage with the top of range Huawei mifi, not perfect. 

I store my ten sacks of coal in the well deck, a cratch would be better to keep them dry. 

I store my logs inside, they season and dry out in about three months, the new kiln dried logs are not as good at first. 

A good stove, safely installed plus diesel heater, to radiators are essential if out on the cut Nov to February,..... and you need good boat insulation: foam. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by LadyG

[Stilllearning]

50 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

This is all true.  Lots of solar for spring, summer, autumn.  A good and reliable generation method for winter.  And, importantly, a mindset of minimising electrical consumption.

Yes, this is spot on. You will get into the habit of only having a light on where you are actually needing it, and of course every bulb will be led. It is also remarkable how little electric one actually needs, as opposed to wants, to have.

Personal taste will dictate a lot of your choices, however, I would look for portholes, not windows , for several reasons. Much more secure, less heat loss, and they just look better, and a pigeon box or two in the roof lets  in light, aids ventilation and also break up a long empty roof line.

About BSS and flammable items near the engine: just move them on the day of the test!

 

[LadyG]

19 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Yes, this is spot on. You will get into the habit of only having a light on where you are actually needing it, and of course every bulb will be led. It is also remarkable how little electric one actually needs, as opposed to wants, to have.

Personal taste will dictate a lot of your choices, however, I would look for portholes, not windows , for several reasons. Much more secure, less heat loss, and they just look better, and a pigeon box or two in the roof lets  in light, aids ventilation and also break up a long empty roof line.

About BSS and flammable items near the engine: just move them on the day of the test!

 

I don't think it will ever be a good idea to store petrol near an engine!

 

I assume you mean for a portable suitcase generator, I use my engine, a can of worms if you need much power.

There is something called Travelpower, that some use. I don't know what it is.... 

There is an installed generator, costs many thousands. 

A lot to think about. 

Of course, if you are inner city, then you don't expect to get quite as cold as on the summit of the Pennines. 

You need to keep temperature quite high 24/7in my opinion. In that cold snap, I used three bags of smokeless ie 60kg per week, plus a few logs, and had Webasto on and off twelve hours a day, that uses quite a few electrk...  ions. 

There is a battery primer on here, read it, then read it again. 

You must keep batteries topped up, else they will need replacing too often. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by LadyG

[blackrose]

26 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

About BSS and flammable items near the engine: just move them on the day of the test!

 

 

Yes, you could also just borrow some fire extinguishers from another boat for the day of the test instead of wasting money buying your own. 

 

Alternatively you could do things properly. 

 

Some of the advice on this forum is getting worse. It's like the blind leading the blind - amateurs advising novices. Just move flammable items away from your engine on the day of the test? Are you kidding? 

[IanD]

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

Yes sorry.  Just checked and I'm getting 21.2mbps where I am now. 

Wow, 0.0212bps is *awfully* slow... 😉

 

(M=mega, m=milli, B=byte, b=bit...)

[Alan de Enfield]

24 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

Yes, you could also just borrow some fire extinguishers from another boat for the day of the test instead of wasting money buying your own. 

 

Alternatively you could do things properly. 

 

Some of the advice on this forum is getting worse. It's like the blind leading the blind - amateurs advising novices. Just move flammable items away from your engine on the day of the test? Are you kidding? 

 

Yup - people who don't even have a boat or live in the UK giving dangerous advice - its not his first 'offence'.

Anyway, his 'statute of limitations' is not up yet so we will not be seeing him this side of the channel for a while.

 

Why not just get a spare 'registration number plate' made up, stick it over your mates whose boat has already passed and  get the surveyor to check that boat ?

 

or, 

 

Just get a 'registration number plate' made up to match a boat that already has a BSSC then you don't even need to pay a surveyor.

[Idle Days]

3 hours ago, markandsha said:

We are looking to buy a 57 foot canal boat wit a budget of up to 60k to live aboard from summer next year. Lets hear positives and negatives? 

I work from home so need the added luxuries of wifi and want to know if others work aboard such a narrow home? We have looked at wide beam but do not want to be restricted to the south of England. This is a tough compromise but want the luxury of travelling without restrictions.

Any help will be great

Mark 

Good luck.  Plenty of Vlogers on YouTube already doing what you intend doing, so worth viewing those for inspiration.  We are living on a 60 foot cruiser stern narrowboat and don't feel restricted in any way but it would be difficult to decide which 3 foot to lose. 

[IanD]

32 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

Good luck.  Plenty of Vlogers on YouTube already doing what you intend doing, so worth viewing those for inspiration.  We are living on a 60 foot cruiser stern narrowboat and don't feel restricted in any way but it would be difficult to decide which 3 foot to lose. 

A 60' boat can get almost everywhere with care, including the parts of the Northern canals where the official maximum length is shorter (e.g. 57'6"). Various people on the forum can confirm this.

 

You might get a bit wet sometimes and have to be very careful in the shortest locks (Salterhebble top lock is the worst) but in most of them you should be fine, if damp... 😉

 

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/calder/locks.htm

 

The extra 3' does make a significant difference when you're trying to cram things into a narrowboat...

Edited December 2, 2021 by IanD

[MichaelG]

Hi good luck with your boat search. One big negative is the price of boats at the moment. I bought mine four years ago and at the time had a budget of 50k. Judging by the brokerage websites I think I would have had to add another 15k to that budget to get the same today. I think it’s a temporary blip and sooner or later prices will settle a little. Also remember to leave some of your budget for alterations, repairs and equipment replacement. Even if you buy well there will be things you need or want to replace or change. Everything with the word “boat” or “marine” on it will be twice the price you expect. That said if it’s something you are sure you want then go for it and best of luck.

[mrsmelly]

1 hour ago, Idle Days said:

Good luck.  Plenty of Vlogers on YouTube already doing what you intend doing, so worth viewing those for inspiration.  We are living on a 60 foot cruiser stern narrowboat and don't feel restricted in any way but it would be difficult to decide which 3 foot to lose. 

My first boat was 56 footer, I have also owned 57, 42,65,68,70 and a widebeam inland boats for full time liveaboard use. I wouldnt buy anything under 68 these days. The comfort levels of longer boats over a 57 foot are humungous. A widebeam is vastly better again. In reality the 70 footer has a hell of a range, only missing the L and L and a few bits. North to south is still easy, both sides of the country.

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

This is often brought up, but in practice is a non-issue.  There are only a very few dead spots these days and they are easily avoided by checking the online coverage maps and just remembering where they are.  In some areas the signal can be patchy and this is easily dealt with by simply making sure you moor up precisely where the signal is.  I used a speedtest app to check when I come to moor and have been known to drag the boat along ten feet or so just so I can get a good signal where I've moored, often just moving to the other side of a bridge does the trick.  This way I've never had a problem on the following canals and rivers:  G&S, River Severn, River Avon, Stratford, Worcester & Birmingham, Staffs & Worcs, BCN, B&F, Shroppie, Llan, T&M, Cov, Oxford, Thames, Macc, GU, Ashby, River Trent, Fossdyke, Witham, Weaver, Caldon.  It possible that it's a major problem on other canals, but I doubt it. I demand a minimum of 2GB download speed, but I rarely have to go that low these days.

THis is what I have had this week 

[Bee]

Crumbs, I wish I hadn't put 'tins of paint' on the list of stuff to store in the engine'ole How about coils of rope, spare bits of engine, wet clothes and painting stuff (but not paint. Oh No. Or dynamite. Never dynamite, that goes in the gas locker.) But seriously, if it burns easily or can spontaneously ignite like oil or white spirit soaked rags don't screw them up and store them, chuck them away.