current RCD certificate

[MRBear]

Hi Guys

I am selling my beautiful boat which is just over 2 years old ( i bought it brand new), it still has a valid RCD conformity certificate, however, the potential buyers surveyor has highlighted that the "outs" are too low to the water, i presume he's referring to the exhaust outlet which sits virtually on the water line but has a swan neck internally. My question is, What recourse do i have against the builders of my boat or the RCD issuing body themselves if my buyers pull out and i loose the sale because of this?. I did query these "outs" levels before i purchased my boat, which i can prove in an email trail. 

[Tony Brooks]

3 minutes ago, MRBear said:

Hi Guys

I am selling my beautiful boat which is just over 2 years old ( i bought it brand new), it still has a valid RCD conformity certificate, however, the potential buyers surveyor has highlighted that the "outs" are too low to the water, i presume he's referring to the exhaust outlet which sits virtually on the water line but has a swan neck internally. My question is, What recourse do i have against the builders of my boat or the RCD issuing body themselves if my buyers pull out and i loose the sale because of this?. I did query these "outs" levels before i purchased my boat, which i can prove in an email trail. 

 

Beware - if t has a swan neck it could well be the surveyor is wrong. We cant tell without measuring the up-stand from waterline to the underside of the top bend.

 

Many sea boats have "outs" and or ins below the waterline but with suitable swan necks or up-stands inside the hull.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[IanD]

5 minutes ago, MRBear said:

Hi Guys

I am selling my beautiful boat which is just over 2 years old ( i bought it brand new), it still has a valid RCD conformity certificate, however, the potential buyers surveyor has highlighted that the "outs" are too low to the water, i presume he's referring to the exhaust outlet which sits virtually on the water line but has a swan neck internally. My question is, What recourse do i have against the builders of my boat or the RCD issuing body themselves if my buyers pull out and i loose the sale because of this?. I did query these "outs" levels before i purchased my boat, which i can prove in an email trail. 

 

For any inlet/outlet (hull opening) which has a fixed internal waterproof pipe going upwards, IIRC it's the height of the inner open end of the pipe (or swan neck) above the waterline that matters, not the position of the external hole.

 

So if the rules say "opening must be 250mm above waterline", you can have a hull opening close to (or below) the waterline so long as the internal pipe is at least 250mm above it.

 

I'm pretty sure that's what the rules actually say, can somebody confirm?

 

If I'm right, the surveyor is interpreting the rules wrongly...

Edited December 1, 2021 by IanD

[Bee]

If it has a decent swan neck then the builder has done his job and if you did express your displeasure to him he would probably say you have filled the boat with so much stuff its your problem - well that's my prediction anyway. So far as the RCD is concerned it could possibly cause the builder some problems although probably not many but it would not help you unless you started a long, possibly expensive and probably unsuccessful legal thing.  The cooling water inlet on my boat is - of course - below water level but the 'opening' is well above, hopefully your outlet is too. 

There is though one other point, Being a belt and braces sort of person I would fit an anti syphon thingy to the system, something like this   https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=eDHLz6OZ&id=61E82FAAFF45B976F37CA58CEA5A80C76AC69172&thid=OIP.eDHLz6OZwS-OkoFGKWC9uAHaI_&mediaurl=https%3a%2f%2fwww.vetus.com%2fmedia%2fcatalog%2fproduct%2fcache%2f1%2fimage%2f9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95%2fA%2fS%2fASDV.jpg&cdnurl=https%3a%2f%2fth.bing.com%2fth%2fid%2fR.7831cbcfa399c12f8e9281462960bdb8%3frik%3dcpHGaseAWuqMpQ%26pid%3dImgRaw%26r%3d0&exph=1822&expw=1500&q=vetus+exhaust+anti+syphon+valve&simid=608039396442926000&FORM=IRPRST&ck=CE09337A29A759200FFDB3E40F3E5D0A&selectedIndex=0&idpp=overlayview&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0

Edited December 1, 2021 by Bee

[MRBear]

thanks guys. i'm finding your comments really reassuring generally. i'll be forwarding your comments on to my broker in due course

[David Mack]

57 minutes ago, MRBear said:

 My question is, What recourse do i have against the builders of my boat or the RCD issuing body themselves if my buyers pull out and i loose the sale because of this?

 

In practice, none. 

 

In theory, under consumer legislation, as the original purchaser of a new boat, you have a potential case against boatbuilder. But you would probably have to sue, which would be an expensive and uncertain process.

 

I don't think the certifier has any direct legal obligation to you (unless you engaged them directly), so any action you take against them would have to prove that not only had they breached the legal requirements, but also that they owed you a duty of care.  The lawyers could make a lot of money out of this.  You wouldn't!

 

Trading Standards could bring a case, but their resources are so thinly spread that I very much doubt they would prioritise a case like this.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by David Mack

[IanD]

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

 

In practice, none. 

 

In theory, under consumer legislation, as the original purchaser of a new boat, you have a potential case against boatbuilder. But you would probably have to sue, which would be an expensive and uncertain process.

 

I don't think the certifier has any direct legal obligation to you (unless you engaged them directly), so any action you take against them would have to prove that not only had they breached the legal requirements, but also that they owed you a duty of care.  The lawyers could make a lot of money out of this.  You wouldn't!

 

Trading Standards could bring a case, but their resources are so thinly spread that I very much doubt they would prioritise a case like this.

 

 

It sounds more likely that the boatbuilder/certifier isn't at fault and the surveyor is misinterpreting the rules, but this isn't confirmed yet.

[David Mack]

4 minutes ago, IanD said:

It sounds more likely that the boatbuilder/certifier isn't at fault and the surveyor is misinterpreting the rules, but this isn't confirmed yet.

Indeed. But if the boat is non compliant with the RCD requirements, then my post stands.

[IanD]

3 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Indeed. But if the boat is non compliant with the RCD requirements, then my post stands.

But the RCD requirements are height from waterline to opening (e.g. open pipe end) *inside* the boat, not the external opening...

Edited December 1, 2021 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, MRBear said:

.............. it still has a valid RCD conformity certificate

 

Do not get confused about the RCD / RCR certificate - the certificate is not like the BSS (or MOT) the RCD it does not expire it is for the LIFE OF THE VESSEL and only becomes invalidated when somone does work to the boat to invalidate it (change engine, rewire, work on gas pipes etc etc) at that stage it requires a PCA (Post Construction Assessment) by a RCD / RCR approved surveyor.

 

Nota Bene : In the UK the 'RCD' (Recreational Craft Directive) became the RCR (Recreational Craft Requirements) in 2017 so, your boat presumably has an RCR compliance certificate.

[MRBear]

hi

 

sorry, yes i do mean RCR, thanks

[MRBear]

hi all

i thought i would update you all regards the sale of my boat.

when i purchased my boat brand new it came with all the usual legal paperwork including a certificate of conformity which is valid for it's 1st 4 years. i'm presuming this is the initial builders certification that is basically its initial BSS certificate. 

as you can probably imagine that when i had to sell my beautiful boat because of a breakdown of a relationship after owning it for just over 2 years i was somewhat shocked and horrified that the potential buyers surveyor picked up on the "outs" being too close to the water. thankfully the builder has realized  that they could be on a very sticky wicket if it was proven that they had sold a boat with a legal certificate of safety which was indeed not to the regulatory requirement and have made good the problem by removing ballast from the rear of the boat and have also provided a written affidavit that they will attend to raising the exhaust outlet in the new year  for the new owners. my boat is now in the loving arms of it's new owners with all issues sorted. my warning from hindsight is this. No matter what age of a boat you intend to buy, even if it's brand new off the production line, get it fully surveyed. 

 

thank you all for all of the usual fantastic advice and support you have given me over the past few years, may i wish you all a wonderful Christmas and new year.  i have loved being part of this amazing community and i will miss it for the rest of my life,, god bless you all,,, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Bod]

Thanks for coming back to us with this information.

Good luck with going forward, and there is a boat out there with your name on it.

 

Bod.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 hours ago, MRBear said:

when i purchased my boat brand new it came with all the usual legal paperwork including a certificate of conformity which is valid for it's 1st 4 years.

 

Thanks for coming back with the updates, many don't and just leave the forum 'in the dark'.

 

Just for future information to anyone reading the thread at a later date the RCR is NOT VALID FOR 4 YEARS. I think the confusion comes into some peoples mind as C&RT etc accept it in lieu of the 1st BSSC so you do not need to get a BSSC for 4 years.

 

Since 2017 the RCR / RCD is VALID FOR THE LIFE OF THE BOAT

 

Any major works that affect either the engine or safety of the boat (stability, gas, electric, fuel systems etc) must be done in a compliant way. A new engine can only be fitted if it approved by the RCR (emissions and noise levels) and it is no more than 10% higher in HP than the original engine.

 

Any 'major works' will require a PCA (Post Construction Assessment) certificate from a surveyor on the RCR Approved list to show it has been done in compliance with the regulations.