New Foot Br over Duck Mill Lk Bedford.

[oboat]

Can anybody tell me what the headroom under the NEW foot/service rd bridge at the entry to Duck Mill Lock from the Great Ouse in Bedford, please?

The EA did give It at, 1" below the adjacent Engineers bridge at 7'-0" 

 

 

[PaulJ]

Probably about right-Ive never measured it.  Plenty of room for narrowboats anyhow although I have to remove chimney and exhaust pipes to fit under. Not sure where/ how far you are intending to get but the railway bridge just past Soveriegn Quay are a good bit lower but narrowboats can usually fit. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by PaulJ

[oboat]

This is the NEW bridge from Minimal List  Boston to Kempston Mill 2021

This is the old bridge from Braggaboutlife.com Boston to Kempston Mill 2018

[oboat]

We have been under the rail bridge up to Kempston with no prob's

The significance of this bridge WAS, that more or less if a boat could get under this bridge it could get under the rail Bridge. 

It now looks like this new bridge will no longer act as a gauge.

[Scholar Gypsy]

On 01/12/2021 at 10:24, oboat said:

This is the NEW bridge from Minimal List  Boston to Kempston Mill 2021

 

This is the old bridge from Braggaboutlife.com Boston to Kempston Mill 2018

 

 

Oddly, I don't think ML got very close to Kempston Mill!

[David Mack]

27 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

Oddly, I don't think ML got very close to Kempston Mill!

We've taken Fulbourne up above Bedford a couple of times, and on both occasions it was a lack of depth below water level rather than headroom above which stopped us getting all the way to Kempston Mill.

[oboat]

24 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

Yes correct Simon, but it begs the question why on earth only lift the bridge about 5" or 6" 
That said, I don't think minimum list would have got under the old, RC Slab had it not been. 

A restoration of the Red Brick Arch would have been much more interesting, photogenic and practical.
It would also have allowing the local GRP boats access to the moorings in the town and put cash in its towns tills.
I do despair of the sort of short-sightedness.

25 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

 

 

[oboat]

On 01/12/2021 at 22:27, oboat said:

We have been under the rail bridge up to Kempston with no prob's

The significance of this bridge WAS, that more or less if a boat could get under this bridge it could get under the rail Bridge. 

It now looks like this new bridge will no longer act as a gauge.

 

As the travel agents boat (which has the same Dims as Braggabout we only take about 2'-0" 

 

http://www.braggaboutlife.com/uk-waterways/great-ouse-bedford-to-kempston-mill

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

 

Oddly, I don't think ML got very close to Kempston Mill!

This was my effort

 

Edit, helps to put the link in 

Harnser's Travels: Goldington GOBA mooring Wednesday 17 July 2013 (nbharnser.blogspot.com) 

Edited December 2, 2021 by ditchcrawler

[PaulJ]

4 hours ago, oboat said:

Yes correct Simon, but it begs the question why on earth only lift the bridge about 5" or 6" 

But what could you gain by lifting it more ?

The bridges either side of it are lower now and Im going to (wild) guess its now set at about the same height as the old railway bridge next to Priory. 

 

[oboat]

12 hours ago, PaulJ said:

But what could you gain by lifting it more ?

The bridges either side of it are lower now and Im going to (wild) guess its now set at about the same height as the old railway bridge next to Priory. 

 

Paul
Most of the potential gains, they are many, are set out in the Braggaboutlife blog and above, however as a Re-Cap.
 
1). The principal and more immediate gains obtained by increasing the headroom under the DML bridge to above 8’-10”+ (2.7m) (IWA Standards for Construction) would be environmental, visual and economic.

2). Such work would have encouraged the replacement of Engineers Br to a similar minimum headroom. 
This replacement would also magnify the economic and social benefits to the town as per the blog.
By not lifting the DML Br to 8’-10”+ the risk is, that the level of the bridge will set a headroom standard which will be detrimental to local and visiting cruising craft.
With this in mind, I suspect you are correct in assuming that the new level of the DML Br is as per the Old Railway Br, which is at 7’-6” (EA table). This is why, I am asking the question. 
Also of concern is that nobody seems to know what the new DMLB headroom is or if it is part of a plan.

3). Regarding the Old Railway Br headroom: 
This bridge is coming to the end of its economic life and will require significant work in a few years, thus using it to set the headroom gauge on this section of river must be viewed as somewhat short sighted.
This is emphasised by the fact that the EA have to drop the river level so that local Great Ouse cruising craft can get under the bridge in order to access the Bedford River Festival (to a point below Engineers Br).

4). Regarding Bedford’s upstream bridge headroom:
Enabling local Great Ouse cruising craft direct access to the landing adjacent to Bedford High Street (Swan Hotel steps) would not only put cash in the tills of Bedford’s Hight St shops, but through photojournalism would lift Bedford’s national profile.
This would also provide a meaningful destination for local river craft which could not proceed past the Bedford Town Bridge
With this in mind, the lifting and upgrading of Engineers bridge could easily be undertaken under the auspices of Bedford’s “Empty Shops Policy”

5). BMK: 
IMHO The good Burghers of Bedford seem to be suffering from a severe lack of imagination and foresight as can be seen from the above.
It is hoped that with cash coming into the town visually they will be able to identify the benefit’s the town could enjoy through materially supporting the BMKL.

Please note: 
I have deliberately avoided discussion regarding craft passing below Bedford’s upstream railway bridge.
An outstanding tourism generating proposal for this opportunity exists, however I have no wish to distract discussion from the more immediate opportunitys on the lower river.


 

 

 

 

[matty40s]

Obviously with the 'massive' progress of the Milton Keynes-Bedford waterway in mind....where will the link join the Great Ouse?

[PaulJ]

5 hours ago, oboat said:

 

Paul
Most of the potential gains, they are many, are set out in the Braggaboutlife blog and above, however as a Re-Cap.

 

Thanks for that oboat- Im rarely a reader of blogs and hadnt seen that. 

Its a big subject and I could (as a local boater) rattle on for ages about it 😀 

If I recall correctly, it was decided not to raise the Engineers bridge last time it was overhauled and that was before the new lock bridge was built. 

Bedfords waterfront has improved massively over the last decade or so. I think its looking great.Facilities are a bit crap though and taking the councils cash cow (River Festival) aside it is sadly very underused. Always empty- Its rare to even see a boat on the waterpoint. And I think thats the real problem-its Bedford and the end of the River and only mainly seems to appeal to travelling nbers or visitors for the River Festival. Plenty of cruisers could get here , they just choose to turn at Barford which is heaving in comparsion to Bedford.

Of those visitors that do actually venture this far, a major percentage seem to do Bedford lock, wind and are gone by the same afternoon. So I am a little skeptical of any major advantages of raising bridge heights unless of course the BMK link is done (And out of respect to the hard working believers in that one Im not even going there 😀)

 

 

 

[PaulJ]

59 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Obviously with the 'massive' progress of the Milton Keynes-Bedford waterway in mind....where will the link join the Great Ouse?

Lol. 

Kempston -which is adjoined and next  to Bedford. Actually a lovely bit of River.

[David Mack]

Having been above Bedford a couple off times I agree it is a lovely bit of river, and easier to navigate in a deep draughted full length narrowboat than you might expect. It will need a bit of dredging to get bigger boats up to Kempston though. And the railway bridges will always restrict the headroom to narrowboats and smaller cruisers. Unless someone wants to build a drop lock under the bridge at one side of the river!

Edited December 3, 2021 by David Mack

[GUMPY]

3 hours ago, matty40s said:

Obviously with the 'massive' progress of the Milton Keynes-Bedford waterway in mind....where will the link join the Great Ouse?

I suspect that the MK-Bedford waterway will be opening about the same time as the Foxton Inclined plane gets restored.

[enigmatic]

Engineers bridge gently removed my chimney, which was just tall enough to touch it 

 

Duck Mill Lane footbridge (I assume the new one) didn't feel that low, and I'm pretty sure I passed under it with my chimney on going back the other way before remembering to remove it.

 

I went up to the rail bridge and decided against it, even with the chimney down because it would have been a tight squeeze with the catch board and solar panels, so I definitely wouldn't be using the new bridge as a gauge.

[oboat]

16 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Thanks for that oboat- Im rarely a reader of blogs and hadnt seen that. 

Its a big subject and I could (as a local boater) rattle on for ages about it 😀 

If I recall correctly, it was decided not to raise the Engineers bridge last time it was overhauled and that was before the new lock bridge was built. 

Bedfords waterfront has improved massively over the last decade or so. I think its looking great.Facilities are a bit crap though and taking the councils cash cow (River Festival) aside it is sadly very underused. Always empty- Its rare to even see a boat on the waterpoint. And I think thats the real problem-its Bedford and the end of the River and only mainly seems to appeal to travelling nbers or visitors for the River Festival. Plenty of cruisers could get here , they just choose to turn at Barford which is heaving in comparsion to Bedford.

Of those visitors that do actually venture this far, a major percentage seem to do Bedford lock, wind and are gone by the same afternoon. So I am a little skeptical of any major advantages of raising bridge heights unless of course the BMK link is done (And out of respect to the hard working believers in that one Im not even going there 😀)

 

 

 

Thanks for the local feedback, much appreciated.
Do you know when this bridge work was done?
I could also rattle on but was trying to be succinct.
You didn't say if you looked at the blog?
I understood Engineers Br has a somewhat regular overhaul, I would suspect the reason for not lifting it was "Well the next one is even lower". 
It would have been very easy to lift. The RE could even have done it, but as I said it really needs a modern Sustrans type replacement. 
Your point re the Waterfront is well made. 
We could not understand why the new eateries were empty, but I suspect, as I said, the river was empty after about 6:30 and not much to see for the GBP. 

Re turning above the lock!
For some reason the EA do not include bridge details above the lock and when we came out, the Town Bridge did lookvery low. Add to that the very negative stories about low bridges and guid books which say Kempston is not accessible and it is not surprising that boats do not even come to the town let alone Kempston. 
Thinking it through boats coming from the main system have had to pass the 6'-4" headroom Middle Level so 6'-11" was not that bad. That said, friends on the river have windscreens which are 7'-6" and will still not go under DML bridge even if it has 7'-6" headroom and they are the kind of boater that Bedford needs.

With regard to BMKL, I know what you are not saying.

Now they have trip boats running they should be in a position to transform into a delivery organisation, a new high profile Engineers bridge could be just what they need. 

 

 

 

[oboat]

6 hours ago, enigmatic said:

Engineers bridge gently removed my chimney, which was just tall enough to touch it 

 

Duck Mill Lane footbridge (I assume the new one) didn't feel that low, and I'm pretty sure I passed under it with my chimney on going back the other way before remembering to remove it.

 

I went up to the rail bridge and decided against it, even with the chimney down because it would have been a tight squeeze with the catch board and solar panels, so I definitely wouldn't be using the new bridge as a gauge.

Thanks for the info.
 Did you take any pic's?
Pity you didn't try as it would have confirmed the status of Engineers bridge.
When did you do your trip & did you use the old swimming pool mooring?

[PaulJ]

4 hours ago, oboat said:

Quote deleted to keep reply shorter..

 

 

My memory is unreliable/ rubbish  but Im going to guess at 6-10 years since the Engineers bridge was redecked. Before a River Festival anyhow..

As you say, the BMK boat ' John Bunyan' (widebeam) goes through regulary and winds where ML got to at the footbridge.

Thats a big boat that fits through no problem at no cost. 

And this is where it all falls down, you would be talking of raising 3 bridges just to allow (non existent or rare) taller boats through  - more would visit without doubt but you would need  a tenfold ? or more increase in visitors to justify the cost. And thats never going to happen-Ive got more fingers and toes than I need to count boats even at the height of season. 

Barring the BMK link opening , the appeal of Bedford and beyond surely IS the fact its a quiet and out of the way place for intrepid boat explorers to reach 😀 

Its not all gloom though- works are underway at the minute building a new mooring somewhere near Kempston Mill. I will go up there at some point in the near future, stop there, floods aside, and post a photo for you 🙂

 

[enigmatic]

8 hours ago, oboat said:

Thanks for the info.
 Did you take any pic's?
Pity you didn't try as it would have confirmed the status of Engineers bridge.
When did you do your trip & did you use the old swimming pool mooring?

It was summer this year, a slightly wet week which was part of my concern about the railway bridge. Probably around the time Minimal List went through as someone else commented theyd seen him when I was on other parts of the Anglian waterways. Checked my Bedford pics but don't have any of the lock or engineers bridge.

 

The old swimming pool mooring - do you mean the GOBA one near the pyramid? Didn't use that, moored on the island the other side of Duck Mill Lock. Used the water point towards the railway bridge as well - town bridge had plenty of clearance at the mid point of the arch although again I think I had my chimney off to be on the safe side.

[oboat]

On 03/12/2021 at 22:44, matty40s said:

..where will the link join the Great Ouse?

 

 

On 03/12/2021 at 23:45, PaulJ said:

Lol. 

Kempston -which is adjoined and next  to Bedford. Actually a lovely bit of River.

 

On 03/12/2021 at 22:44, matty40s said:

Obviously with the 'massive' progress of the Milton Keynes-Bedford waterway in mind....where will the link join the Great Ouse?

 

[oboat]

13 hours ago, enigmatic said:

The old swimming pool mooring - do you mean the GOBA one near the pyramid? Didn't use that, moored on the island the other side of Duck Mill Lock. Used the water point towards the railway bridge as well - town bridge had plenty of clearance at the mid point of the arch although again I think I had my chimney off to be on the safe side.

Thanks.
I understand your reluctance to try the upstream Rail Bridge.
As I don’t think ML would have got under the old DML bridge, but they did get under the RE & the rail bridge.
Perhaps a marker is now required on the DML guillotine stanchion (as on the Sleaford) would help on this. 
Re GOBA mooring:  No nether did we.
 The old swimming pool mooring, is adjacent to the water point and is or was the official mooring for the town. (It was the site of the old wharf and a boat builder). See http://www.braggaboutlife.com/uk-waterways/great-ouse-bedford-to-kempston-mill for the funny story and our nights entertainment in it. 
It’s also the best mooring for the Market, Town, John Bunion Museum and the Station if you intend to take the opportunity of a trip to Bletchley Park.
Your choice of mooring location confirms Pauls comment about, boats being here today and gone tomorrow. I never gave that location a thought. 

[oboat]

16 hours ago, PaulJ said:

My memory is unreliable/ rubbish  but Im going to guess at 6-10 years since the Engineers bridge was redecked. Before a River Festival anyhow..

 

And this is where it all falls down, you would be talking of raising 3 bridges just to allow (non existent or rare) taller boats through  - more would visit without doubt but you would need  a tenfold ? or more increase in visitors to justify the cost. And thats never going to happen-Ive got more fingers and toes than I need to count boats even at the height of season. 

Barring the BMK link opening , the appeal of Bedford and beyond surely IS the fact its a quiet and out of the way place for intrepid boat explorers to reach 😀 

Its not all gloom though- works are underway at the minute building a new mooring somewhere near Kempston Mill. I will go up there at some point in the near future, stop there, floods aside, and post a photo for you 🙂

 

Re Engineers Br: Interesting, that’s a relatively long time.
It has just had a few repairs and may be due for a safety review soon which could also review lifting it, which would be simple as at Ramsey Hollow Pumping Station Br see

https://braggaboutlife.wordpress.com/2018/02/05/forty-foot-sixteen-foot-drain-new-pophams-eau-to-march/

 

Not certain about the three bridges you mention Paul.
The the only bridge I am concerned about at present is the RE bridge, see my exclusion Note;
and thus my recommendation for short mooring arms under the Swan Hotel embankment wall, all as in Liverpool & Bristol, (Not for narrow boats) Both cities being at a practical HoN.
Boats just doing an about turn, I put down to a combination of:- 
A). All the negative stories about low headroom and no city moorings in guide books as mentioned on ML.
B). Rumour mongering by parochial cruiser owners who don’t go past Carlingford Lk but complain bitterly about Nb on their river.
C). A total marketing failure by Bedford CC staff who have no idea how the river could help the town.

 

Re: quiet and out of the way. That’s a good point. You would never know Kempston had a Gas works on the river. 
As I mentioned in the blog, cruising slowly down the “Broadwater” at sunset, when all the skiffs had gone home was absolutely magnificent, very recommended.
However the town section is another world.

Re: BMKL Now that they have two trip boats, they could become a delivery group, but that, as you say, is another discussion.

In conclusion.
On my personal A/D schedule, I had DML Br at 6'-8" 
The EA had it a 6'-11" so it will be interesting to see if more boats come up to the town next year, however with CV 19 it would be impossible to tell if anything has changed this year.

[Scholar Gypsy]

21 hours ago, PaulJ said:

My memory is unreliable/ rubbish  but Im going to guess at 6-10 years since the Engineers bridge was redecked. Before a River Festival anyhow..

As you say, the BMK boat ' John Bunyan' (widebeam) goes through regulary and winds where ML got to at the footbridge.

Thats a big boat that fits through no problem at no cost. 

And this is where it all falls down, you would be talking of raising 3 bridges just to allow (non existent or rare) taller boats through  - more would visit without doubt but you would need  a tenfold ? or more increase in visitors to justify the cost. And thats never going to happen-Ive got more fingers and toes than I need to count boats even at the height of season. 

Barring the BMK link opening , the appeal of Bedford and beyond surely IS the fact its a quiet and out of the way place for intrepid boat explorers to reach 😀 

Its not all gloom though- works are underway at the minute building a new mooring somewhere near Kempston Mill. I will go up there at some point in the near future, stop there, floods aside, and post a photo for you 🙂

 

 

I found a very pleasant wild mooring between Bedford and Kempston, on the right going upstream, about here (and the gangplank is still on the roof):

https://www.streetmap.co.uk/map?x=502565&y=248960&z=115&sv=502565,248960&st=4&ar=y&mapp=map&searchp=ids&dn=516&ax=502565&ay=248960&lm=0