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Reverse gear not working


Tony1

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Just now, matty40s said:

I can only recommend as a simple and first job,  checking your gearbox oil level. Often solves the problem before having to take things apart.

It’s a mechanical gearbox so I don’t think oil level is likely to be an issue, as it might if it were a hydraulic box.

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Just now, enigmatic said:

From personal experience: if RCR says it's the gearbox or possibly the drive plate, ask them to take the gearbox off and check the drive plate before you have to wait for a replacement gearbox only to find the actual issue is the drive plate...

If it was the drive plate, surely both forwards and reverse would be equally affected?

My thinking is that:

the gearbox was ok. Then there was some heavy  load on the prop and for some short time the prop wasn’t turning even though it was in gear. Now the gearbox is not ok overall, but it’s sort of ok in forwards.
Although I have no experience of mechanical gearboxes my thoughts are that perhaps the throw of the lever was marginal, and now reverse has been engaged but without the prop turning due to an obstruction, the reverse clutch has worn some more so that now, the travel of the control lever is insufficient to engage the clutch. Whether increasing the travel of the lever improves things remains to be seen.

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22 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I can only recommend as a simple and first job,  checking your gearbox oil level. Often solves the problem before having to take things apart.

If it continues to leak oil, it's probably the selector O ring needs replacing.

 

 

Thanks Matty, I'll check the oil before I call the RCR. I'm hoping it will be ok, as it its been serviced every 200 hours as per schedule, and has always been fine, but of course you never know....

 

I think I read that RCR don't cover your costs if your gearbox oil level is low (user neglect), so I will have to make sure its not an issue before getting them involved.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

If it was the drive plate, surely both forwards and reverse would be equally affected?

Probably, but badly damaged drive plates can limp on for a bit, and work better under some types of load than others. Thought I'd ruled out the drive plate with my (different) problem but it turned out I wasted a lot of time waiting for a gearbox. I'd hope they'd check the gear cable as you suggested first though.

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When we had a throttle cable break it would still limp along like you were in tickover/minimum revs in both forward and reverse.

 

Top tip for this time of year is tip a kettle of boiling water down the weed hatch before you go in with the hand, doesn’t last long but makes it less numbing for feeling whats there.

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16 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

From personal experience: if RCR says it's the gearbox or possibly the drive plate, ask them to take the gearbox off and check the drive plate before you have to wait for a replacement gearbox only to find the actual issue is the drive plate...

 

 

Thanks, fingers still crossed its just a cable issue, but if they start telling me its a gearbox issue, I'll ask them to check the drive plate before stranding me here for 2 weeks

 

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9 minutes ago, Hudds Lad said:

 

Top tip for this time of year is tip a kettle of boiling water down the weed hatch before you go in with the hand, doesn’t last long but makes it less numbing for feeling whats there.

 

To be honest I have got one of those full-arm gloves for my right hand (God knows where the left one went), but after half an hour of pulling, groping and cutting, my hand was stinging with the cold. 

And to add to the fun, it snowed all the way back to the mooring. Ordinarily, I'd find that very poetic and lovely, but with no reverse gear, and an unknown but possibly major issue happening, it was just miserable.

The joys of winter... 

 

Edited by Tony1
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Just now, Tony1 said:

 

To be honest  have got one of those full-arm gloves (God knows where the left one went), but after half an hour of pulling, groping and cutting, my hand was stinging with the cold. 

And to add to the fun, it snowed all the way back to the mooring. Ordinarily, I'd find that very poetic and lovely, but with no reverse gear, and an unknown but possibly major issue happening, it was just miserable.

The joys of winter... 

 

Apparently, Met. Office winter doesn’t start until 1st December…

Be very afraid😱

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2 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

Apparently, Met. Office winter doesn’t start until 1st December…

Be very afraid😱

 

I spoke to a checkout lady in Sainsburys back in October, who said she thought it was going to be a harsh winter. Her prediction was based on the presence of some kind of berry in abundance (I think maybe blueberries), in a given month. 

I'm afraid that I did not hide my scepticism and my amusement about her belief in this prediction method, and I even joked with her good-naturedly about it.

I can remember turning back to her and shouting "look out for the blueberries!" in an apocalyptic tone as I left. 

 

Little did I know, she was spot on. Those dammed berries....

 

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27 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

To be honest I have got one of those full-arm gloves for my right hand (God knows where the left one went), but after half an hour of pulling, groping and cutting, my hand was stinging with the cold. 

A friend of mine did his first canal boating on a school trip. One of their number was steering when they got something round the prop. The reaction from the rest of the crew was "You got it on, so you get it off", and someone more knowledgeable explained how to open the weedhatch. Chap took the lid off then exclaimed with some surprise "It's full of water!". "Well, you'd better bail it out then", and someone passed him a small container. Three or four lots of water were duly decanted from the weedhatch and over the side, before the penny dropped...

Edited by David Mack
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I'm scratching my head reading some of these posts. There's no way that leaves and a bit of string around my prop would stop it from turning or producing propulsion, even if it was thick with leaves. If I noticed a reduction in output I'd just put it into reverse as I was going along to clear the prop and carry on without thinking too much about it.

 

If we were talking small plastic cruisers with outboards and tiny props I might be able to understand how leaves could be a problem, so I can only imagine that some of you have underpowered engines / small props which don't produce much torque?

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3 hours ago, blackrose said:

I'm scratching my head reading some of these posts. There's no way that leaves and a bit of string around my prop would stop it from turning or producing propulsion, even if it was thick with leaves. If I noticed a reduction in output I'd just put it into reverse as I was going along to clear the prop and carry on without thinking too much about it.

 

If we were talking small plastic cruisers with outboards and tiny props I might be able to understand how leaves could be a problem, so I can only imagine that some of you have underpowered engines / small props which don't produce much torque?

 

The problem leaves cause makes no sense to me but I know they do as described, they have in the past brought my boat to almost a stop on the North Oxford. I would have expected them to be spun off, but they are not. They don't stop the engine but certainly load it.

 

I think there may have been more that one fault with the possibility of the initial prop foul being damaging the reverse clutch but there is always the possibility of a control/cable fault. The last descriptive post about running for an hour and then slowing down has the whiff of moving from a relatively leaf free length of canal to a heavily leaved section.

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Forward - reverse load on gearbox. A while ago I had an overpropped engine - think it was a BMC 2.5. In forward gear it was working hard but no problems, when it came to stopping though it would be making black smoke for a short time. I thought that might be because the boat was moving at 3 - 4 mph and spinning the prop against the flow until it was stationary might have been just that little bit extra work. Can't remember what it did when reversing from a standstill. Can't remember yesterday.

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4 hours ago, blackrose said:

I'm scratching my head reading some of these posts. There's no way that leaves and a bit of string around my prop would stop it from turning or producing propulsion, even if it was thick with leaves. If I noticed a reduction in output I'd just put it into reverse as I was going along to clear the prop and carry on without thinking too much about it.

 

If we were talking small plastic cruisers with outboards and tiny props I might be able to understand how leaves could be a problem, so I can only imagine that some of you have underpowered engines / small props which don't produce much torque?

I've experienced the leaves effect on an ex working boat with large slow running prop. But as you suggest just going into neutral or a quick burst of reverse clears it and you carry on. If it was a real prop foul you wouldn't see the immediate improvement.

Like Tony, I don't understand how a bunch of loose leaves can collectively stop a prop from working, but it undoubtedly happens.

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We have the same on a slow running large prop on the N Oxford. I worked out it seemed to be ash leaves on their stalks that causes the majority of the problems. They seemed to gather in certain areas not just by the tree but swept by wind to corners where there were a fair amount of them. They seem to semi submerge as well, being a little smaller than many leaves perhaps weighed down by their stalks. 

 

As above reverse sorts it and there is usually a large amount that fills the water as we head off once in forward again. 

 

 

 

 

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I took my boat out last week because I'd  been doing menial tasks of wiring, grouting and cleaning on the boat for a good few weeks.

Off I set as a treat to enjoy the boat, within 1 mile, it was 100 yds forward, stop, reverse, get the leaves off the prop due to a feeling of going through a 'leafy custard', each time it cleared the prop, then forward again, stop, reverse again. Turned round straightaway and went back into the Joy's of the marina.

Give it another few weeks and the leaves will have sank to the bottom of the cut.

Oh well, get the kettle on, fire lit, on with the other little jobs once more.

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21 minutes ago, Stroudwater1 said:

We have the same on a slow running large prop on the N Oxford. I worked out it seemed to be ash leaves on their stalks that causes the majority of the problems. They seemed to gather in certain areas not just by the tree but swept by wind to corners where there were a fair amount of them. They seem to semi submerge as well, being a little smaller than many leaves perhaps weighed down by their stalks. 

 

As above reverse sorts it and there is usually a large amount that fills the water as we head off once in forward again.

 

I find it sometimes takes more than one burst of astern to clear the prop completely, so I usually give it at least two (astern-ahead-astern-ahead), sometimes more. Often works with non-leaf prop fouls like weeds too...

 

(but not fishing nets, fur coats, plastic beer crates, car tyres, shopping trolleys, Ford Escorts...)

Edited by IanD
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13 hours ago, MtB said:

 

You should try it when you're not on the boat!! 

 

First time I let Starcoaster steer mine on her own was when I went for fish and chips. I'd barely been off the boat 30 seconds when my phone rang - she'd run aground. 

 

Gurls, jeez!! 

 

 

No the feeling Mike Ange chased an angler up a bank ! I only went for a wee and it was a straight section!! Sue another ex did a 180 on a wide section going to goole she had  o idea how it happened 😟

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4 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

The problem leaves cause makes no sense to me but I know they do as described, they have in the past brought my boat to almost a stop on the North Oxford. I would have expected them to be spun off, but they are not. They don't stop the engine but certainly load it.

 

I think there may have been more that one fault with the possibility of the initial prop foul being damaging the reverse clutch but there is always the possibility of a control/cable fault. The last descriptive post about running for an hour and then slowing down has the whiff of moving from a relatively leaf free length of canal to a heavily leaved section.

 

I wanted to give a quick update and a correction to my earlier description of the problem. 

It was hard to tell in the failing light yesterday, but I tried reverse again this morning and there is some (slow) backwards movement. 

The prop shaft is also turning in both directions when fwd and reverse are selected, although its hard to say how fast it speeded up as I increased the throttle. 

 

When fwd drive is engaged, even at low revs there is the expected surge and turbulence in the water around the stern, but in reverse this turbulence is not really noticeable. I could only be sure the prop was turning because the boat did start to move slowly backwards when in reverse, and along the nearby bank there was a slight turbulence and movement of the water, which had to be due to the prop turning. 

 

So I do have some rearward power, but its greatly reduced- could this be a slipping clutch? 

 

The gearbox oil level seems ok-ish, although its hard to tell precisely as its quite thin fluid (visible mainly because it has its red coloration), but the level is at least as high as the indicator line, probably not much higher though.

lf that line represents the low limit, then maybe a top up or change would be required? 

 

I'm thinking I might as well get down to the local Halfords for some ATF fluid, and change the gearbox oil before I call RCR, since low gearbox oil is one of their exclusionary clauses. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Tony1 said:

 

I wanted to give a quick update and a correction to my earlier description of the problem. 

It was hard to tell in the failing light yesterday, but I tried reverse again this morning and there is some (slow) backwards movement. 

The prop shaft is also turning in both directions when fwd and reverse are selected, although its hard to say how fast it speeded up as I increased the throttle. 

 

When fwd drive is engaged, even at low revs there is the expected surge and turbulence in the water around the stern, but in reverse this turbulence is not really noticeable. I could only be sure the prop was turning because the boat did start to move slowly backwards when in reverse, and along the nearby bank there was a slight turbulence and movement of the water, which had to be due to the prop turning. 

 

So I do have some rearward power, but its greatly reduced- could this be a slipping clutch? 

 

The gearbox oil level seems ok-ish, although its hard to tell precisely as its quite thin fluid (visible mainly because it has its red coloration), but the level is at least as high as the indicator line, probably not much higher though.

lf that line represents the low limit, then maybe a top up or change would be required? 

 

I'm thinking I might as well get down to the local Halfords for some ATF fluid, and change the gearbox oil before I call RCR, since low gearbox oil is one of their exclusionary clauses. 

 

 

 

Thanks for the feedback

 

The water normally swirls up either side of the boat when in reverse with little surface disturbance at the back.

 

 Check the speed of the gearbox coupling compared with the shaft in case it is slipping but I don't think that is very likely as you had ahead.

 

Yes it could be a slipping reverse clutch but why I have no idea unless someone really revved the engine in reverse with the prop jammed or very heavily fouled.

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13 minutes ago, Tony1 said:

When fwd drive is engaged, even at low revs there is the expected surge and turbulence in the water around the stern, but in reverse this turbulence is not really noticeable. I could only be sure the prop was turning because the boat did start to move slowly backwards when in reverse, and along the nearby bank there was a slight turbulence and movement of the water, which had to be due to the prop turning. 

Sounds like a prop or rudder foul to me. Might involve getting your hands cold to go down the weedhatch, but I would check that first before getting RCR or a boatyard out.

If you have a load of stuff caught on the rudder it doesn't have that much effect in forward gear, as it all gets blown backwards by the prop wash. But in reverse it all gets sucked into the prop and can seriously affect the reverse thrust.

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