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Buying a boat to CC in London: questions


EllaGlssp

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3 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Some of us have long memories or perhaps we are just 'old' or both. There used to be three types of boats on the system namely working boats, leisure cruisers(pleasure boat licence) and houseboats.

The idea of continuous cruisers arose because there were some people with leisure boats who had the ability and funds to participate in a lifestyle that allowed them to 'cruise' ie undertake a leisure activity on a continuous basis. Somehow this got mixed up with the bylaws allowing a vessel to stay in one place for 14days and it became a right for what should really be classed as houseboats to exist without a permanent mooring only moving every 14 days. This was never a problem when small numbers were involved but that is not the case now. The number of 'houseboats' in London are such that they are appear to be causing environmental problems such as pollution of the water and air and no doubt the authorities are on the case. I am all for genuine continuous cruising  but most boats in London do not fit this concept. You can make many cases for houseboats in terms of satisfying a desperate housing need and more residential moorings are needed but the current arrangements are not sustainable in the long term.

 

On a pedantic technicality, I though a houseboat was a structure designed for living on water, has no fixed means of propulsion, and might not even be shaped like a boat.

A boat used as a permanent residence is what London is full of.

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14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

That's us.

We pay £3000+ pa for a mooring but only use it 6 or 7 months of the year, much of the other 5 or 6 months we are out cruising.

 

Don't forget that your mooring has to exist and C&RT check it.

I didn't mean imaginary moorings.  I meant a mooring that is rarely if ever used but exists and is available for use.  Under the law and this idea of charging cc'ers more, those with moorings that they use for 4 months or so in winter would, in some cases, pay less than those with no mooring at all. 

12 minutes ago, Mike Adams said:

Some of us have long memories or perhaps we are just 'old' or both. There used to be three types of boats on the system namely working boats, leisure cruisers(pleasure boat licence) and houseboats.

The idea of continuous cruisers arose because there were some people with leisure boats who had the ability and funds to participate in a lifestyle that allowed them to 'cruise' ie undertake a leisure activity on a continuous basis. Somehow this got mixed up with the bylaws allowing a vessel to stay in one place for 14days and it became a right for what should really be classed as houseboats to exist without a permanent mooring only moving every 14 days. This was never a problem when small numbers were involved but that is not the case now. The number of 'houseboats' in London are such that they are appear to be causing environmental problems such as pollution of the water and air and no doubt the authorities are on the case. I am all for genuine continuous cruising  but most boats in London do not fit this concept. You can make many cases for houseboats in terms of satisfying a desperate housing need and more residential moorings are needed but the current arrangements are not sustainable in the long term.

You think that CRT would countenance the idea of making 15,000+ people homeless overnight?  Really?

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32 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

You think that CRT would countenance the idea of making 15,000+ people homeless overnight?  Really?

Well strictly I think those people would make themselves homeless by not following whatever rules are in place.

But on the broader point I don't think there is any way CRT can or will get rid of large numbers of liveaboard boaters over a short time period. What may well happen though is that the rules will be tightened (within the constraints of the applicable legislation) so as to make living aboard without a home mooring less attractive - at least in those areas where the pressure is highest. That will probably be done by a combination of pricing, more onerous requirements on movement (with associated enforcement) and increased restrictions on use of other facilities. The effect will not be to significantly reduce the number of liveaboards, but will cap the figure from rising, with perhaps better geographical distribution across the system.

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44 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

You think that CRT would countenance the idea of making 15,000+ people homeless overnight?  Really?

I don't think CaRT would ever be organised sufficiently to make any draconian actions with any serious deadlines. However, that nice Mr Khan could impose harsh restrictions on such things as engine/generator running and smoke control. That would be a big impediment to much of the Capital's floating population and like the congestion charge for road use, could be quite quickly introduced. The land based population who currently suffer such measures would not make much objection.

Edited by Ex Brummie
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18 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Well strictly I think those people would make themselves homeless by not following whatever rules are in place.

But on the broader point I don't think there is any way CRT can or will get rid of large numbers of liveaboard boaters over a short time period. What may well happen though is that the rules will be tightened (within the constraints of the applicable legislation) so as to make living aboard without a home mooring less attractive - at least in those areas where the pressure is highest. That will probably be done by a combination of pricing, more onerous requirements on movement (with associated enforcement) and increased restrictions on use of other facilities. The effect will not be to significantly reduce the number of liveaboards, but will cap the figure from rising, with perhaps better geographical distribution across the system.

 

probably a v naive question but I wonder if they could add any more mooring spots near key destinations. When walking along the canal there seem to be lots of areas which aren’t available to moor on and I can’t work out why! 

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20 hours ago, Mike on the Wey said:

Please be aware that continuous cruising (using the common interpretation of mooring for two weeks, moving a mile, rinse and repeat) is not possible on the Basingstoke or the Wey. The Wey is 20 miles long, and many have suggested that permanent CC'ing on the Wey would be fine. It isn't permitted by the National Trust, and similar rules apply on the Basingstoke which is owned by county councils. 

Apologies if the suggestion was not clear - it was in part a response to Matty40s' post as quoted, without which context is less obvious.

 

My point was that if you are bona fide continuous cruising rather than bridge hopping, and your area of travel includes the whole region from which you could reasonably travel to central London, you could include the Basingstoke and the Wey within your travels. At a month and 21 days respectively on a visitor's licence, that would be up to 51 days a year you could spend in the area which would be a reasonable proportion of the year's travelling.


Alec

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58 minutes ago, EllaGlssp said:

 

probably a v naive question but I wonder if they could add any more mooring spots near key destinations. When walking along the canal there seem to be lots of areas which aren’t available to moor on and I can’t work out why! 

If you walk along the canal in popular areas in and around London you'll find there are zero available moorings, and in many areas boats are moored continuously two abreast. Further out there are plenty of areas which are not designated moorings where you can moor if you want to.

 

There are not many areas on the canals where mooring is actually banned, usually with good reason (unsafe, obstruction). This is not the same as having official moorings with rings and possibly facilities -- outside these you can moor anywhere "in the wild" where there isn't a "no mooring" notice, always assuming the water is deep enough to get in close to the bank -- which it often isn't...

Edited by IanD
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1 hour ago, EllaGlssp said:

 

probably a v naive question but I wonder if they could add any more mooring spots near key destinations. When walking along the canal there seem to be lots of areas which aren’t available to moor on and I can’t work out why! 

 

In some cases the bank is all concrete so you can't get any mooring spikes in and in other places there is high voltage cables under the towpath. That is before you find the canal is not deep enough to get alongside.

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50 minutes ago, IanD said:

probably a v naive question but I wonder if they could add any more mooring spots near key destinations. When walking along the canal there seem to be lots of areas which aren’t available to moor on and I can’t work out why! 

I was quite involved with opening up the London Waterways in the 1970's including work by the then GLC(Greater London Council) in what was designated the 'Canalway' (hence Canalway Cavelcade).

Previously most of the towpath of  the Regents' Canal was closed to the public and if you were boating you had to shin up some gate to get access to the outside world. Of course, all this has changed now but this would not have happened if it was seen as just a benefit to boaters. Many people now have access to the canal for walking, fishing, cycling and just enjoying the open space in the City. It would be very sad it the whole canal were cluttered with residential boats serving a small minority  interest and little benefit to the locals who though their council's tax have made large contributions to the canal environment.

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Has anyone mentioned that much of your time will be spent housekeeping. Maintaining batteries for power, keeping your fire in and your water tank full. Doing your washing and getting it dry as well doing repairs on the boat. This all interferes with your social life.

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22 minutes ago, sueb said:

Has anyone mentioned that much of your time will be spent housekeeping. Maintaining batteries for power, keeping your fire in and your water tank full. Doing your washing and getting it dry as well doing repairs on the boat. This all interferes with your social life.

No body thought about that....

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1 hour ago, sueb said:

Has anyone mentioned that much of your time will be spent housekeeping. Maintaining batteries for power, keeping your fire in and your water tank full. Doing your washing and getting it dry as well doing repairs on the boat. This all interferes with your social life.

 

Very true. And emptying your bog, and changing yer gas bottle(s) when you run out and lugging them in and out of the gas locker, connecting them up etc. No one single thing on this list takes up huge amounts of time (save for queuing for water) but they all add up. Also, when one needs doing it usually needs doing NOW, not in an hour or two or tomorrow when it's more convenient.

 

 

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25 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Very true. And emptying your bog, and changing yer gas bottle(s) when you run out and lugging them in and out of the gas locker, connecting them up etc. No one single thing on this list takes up huge amounts of time (save for queuing for water) but they all add up. Also, when one needs doing it usually needs doing NOW, not in an hour or two or tomorrow when it's more convenient.

 

 

 

Everything is more difficult and time consuming when you live on a boat, getting shopping to the boat, taking rubbish way, keeping your clothes clean (and maybe smart)  organising repairs etc etc. Quite often a whole day goes by just doing boaty chores. For some of us this is fun but if its winter/dark/cold/wet and you are trying to hold down a full time job its not so good. I have heard that living on a boat itself is a half time job, I would say more like 1/4 but its still a lot of time.

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32 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

 Also, when one needs doing it usually needs doing NOW, not in an hour or two or tomorrow when it's more convenient.

 

It's 10pm, dark, wet, and a bit snowy, and my gas bottle is telling me that it's as good as empty. The spare is on the mooring, rather than in the locker, so I cant just nip out in the dark, and move the regulator :(

 

It needs changing NOW but, given that it's a bit dangerous to be lugging a gas bottle onto the boat and into the locker, (something I should have done in daylight a week ago!!), I'm going to wait until tomorrow and do it in daylight. If I need hot water for a coffee or something, I should be able to boil it on the Boatman, (stove).

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3 hours ago, dmr said:

 

I don't go to any work meetings these days (all this new fangled interweb stuff is great) but when I used to I would put my smartest clothes on, and then in the meeting realise that a boaters concept of smart is similar to what most people would consider a "gentleman of the road". My current best trousers have a hole in the knee, multiple oil stains, and a fair few spots of red oxide primer. I did brush my hair the day before yesterday though.

 

Its quite nice cus when you go into a pub you can instantly spot other boaters to talk to.

Can't remember the last time I wore a pair of shoes, just have two pairs of boots, one getting wet and one getting dry.

This is rather reminiscent of Starcoaster's famous thread from a few years ago!

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12 hours ago, sueb said:

Has anyone mentioned that much of your time will be spent housekeeping. Maintaining batteries for power, keeping your fire in and your water tank full. Doing your washing and getting it dry as well doing repairs on the boat. This all interferes with your social life.

Doing my washing on my boat doesn't take any longer than it did when I was in a house.  A washing machine is a washing machine.  The time I take to do my weekly chores is generally less than a house too.  Cleaning is quicker because the space is smaller, and no lawn to mow which along with general garden maintenance took up a lot of time.

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11 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Doing my washing on my boat doesn't take any longer than it did when I was in a house.  A washing machine is a washing machine.  The time I take to do my weekly chores is generally less than a house too.  Cleaning is quicker because the space is smaller, and no lawn to mow which along with general garden maintenance took up a lot of time.

I’d mostly agree, but unless you’re on shore power the washing machine isn’t something you can put on before you go to bed and hang out in the morning, or put on before you to work. You’ve got to plan to be home for the entire cycle of the machine. I do find that there’s more cleaning to do because of coal dust though, and if you cc you’ve got to be careful about rubbish storage until you find a bin. I burn all the paper (in the winter!) and use small bin bags so whenever I leave to go somewhere, I take a bag of rubbish. 
 

As for water, make sure the tank is big. For 2 of us, my 1000 litre tank can run a 3kg wash twice, showers every other day for two weeks. I wouldn’t go much smaller.  

Edited by cheesegas
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17 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

Somehow this got mixed up with the bylaws allowing a vessel to stay in one place for 14days and it became a right for what should really be classed as houseboats to exist without a permanent mooring only moving every 14 days.

 

When the 1995 Waterways Bill was introduced in Parliament there were Clauses demanding that all craft had a base mooring. Objections were raised at the committee stage arguing that there were boat owners who gently cruised around the system and who therefore had no need of a permanent mooring. BWB as it then was removed those Clauses and cobbled together ill considered alternatives about how long a boat might stay at any one place to accommodate this small group of people who did enjoy a leisurely mobile lifestyle.

 

Such people still feature here on CWDF to a greater or lesser extent, but the main thing is that they have a love of boating and of canals - hoping for a nice local community and a few decent supermarkets and cafes, and decent transport links to the centre of London was not their driving force and is something altogether different. This pushes the concept of canal cruising to its very limits, and probably beyond.

 

Tam

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3 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

Such people still feature here on CWDF to a greater or lesser extent, but the main thing is that they have a love of boating and of canals - hoping for a nice local community and a few decent supermarkets and cafes, and decent transport links to the centre of London was not their driving force and is something altogether different.

 

I too thought this seems to be in complete opposition to the concept of continuous cruising. For this highlighted ambition of the OP's, a home mooring seems essential.

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4 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

I too thought this seems to be in complete opposition to the concept of continuous cruising. For this highlighted ambition of the OP's, a home mooring seems essential.

 

It's certainly against the spirit of the CC rules, even if by creative boat moving the OP manages to stay within the letter of the law... (yes I know it's not a law, I'm just using the accepted phrase)

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13 hours ago, dmr said:

 

I don't go to any work meetings these days (all this new fangled interweb stuff is great) but when I used to I would put my smartest clothes on, and then in the meeting realise that a boaters concept of smart is similar to what most people would consider a "gentleman of the road". My current best trousers have a hole in the knee, multiple oil stains, and a fair few spots of red oxide primer. I did brush my hair the day before yesterday though.

 

Its quite nice cus when you go into a pub you can instantly spot other boaters to talk to.

Can't remember the last time I wore a pair of shoes, just have two pairs of boots, one getting wet and one getting dry.

 

Nipped into a local shop last week with a friend, and the shopkeeper asked "Have you two just come up from the boatyard?"

 

When we agreed, she said "I thought so - it stinks of diesel in here!"

 

 

A couple of years ago, MrsBiscuit was shopping in Aldi at Burscough.  She'd only gone to get some wine, but spotted a handy item in the middle aisles and picked it up.  

 

When she got to the checkout the bloke on the till looked at her entire shop - a dozen bottles of wine and a folding stool - and said "Oh, hello, I'm a boater too!"

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2 hours ago, IanD said:

 

It's certainly against the spirit of the CC rules, even if by creative boat moving the OP manages to stay within the letter of the law... (yes I know it's not a law, I'm just using the accepted phrase)

 

As long as it satisfies CRT, the CCer has done all that's required. 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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