Buying a boat to CC in London: questions

[EllaGlssp]

I’m a 23 year old girl looking to buy a boat to continuously cruise, mainly in and around London. I have done months of extensive research so I think I am pretty aware of most of the caveats of this lifestyle at this point, and I’m pretty certain it will be for me. I have a few specific questions about the process of buying and CCing though:

 

1. Where is the most reliable place to source and buy a narrowboat? I have heard that sourcing one outside of London would likely land me a better deal, though this would make viewings more inconvenient. 

2. When looking at boats, what choices should I be l taking into consideration in terms of the specifics that can’t be easily changed.  Currently I’m hoping for a 40-50ft with a cruiser stern. I’m undecided about my preferred layout inside (eg. walk through bathroom, bedroom at front/back) so if anyone has any pros and cons about these things that would be great!

3. Exactly how much electricity and water us realistic when CCing on a narrow boat, esp during the winter months? I’d be hoping to get a few solar panels, but would also love enough power for a small fridge and potentially a radio, alongside obvious stuff like lighting. Also, I would love a small bath- is this unrealistic in terms of the amount of hot water it would use?

4. Finding spots to moor in London: how hard is this? How long should I expect to be looking when doing a move?

5. And kind of related to that, how much of the year would realistically be spent actually within London rather than the very outskirts while still subscribing to CRT guidelines. What would a typical yearly route through London look like?

6. I’m a younger single woman- how safe am I? If anyone has any direct experience with the London canals from this demographic, esp the rougher areas, do let me know. 

 

Thanks so much in advance- any further tips please fire away! 

 

Ella

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by EllaGlssp

[Tim Lewis]

You will get a better response about the boating in London questions by joining the London Boaters Facebook group

[Jen-in-Wellies]

22 minutes ago, EllaGlssp said:

1. Where is the most reliable place to source and buy a narrowboat? I have heard that sourcing one outside of London would likely land me a better deal, though this would make viewings more inconvenient. 

The biggest concentration of brokers are in the Midlands, around Northamptonshire. In addition to more boats, there are also more places to hoik a boat out for surveys, blacking, or other work before heading south. More boats and with a lower price premium than buying in that London.

2. When looking at boats, what choices should I be l taking into consideration in terms of the specifics that can’t be easily changed.  Currently I’m hoping for a 40-50ft with a cruiser stern. I’m undecided about my preferred layout inside (eg. walk through bathroom, bedroom at front/back) so if anyone has any pros and cons about these things that would be great!

Too many variables to answer.

3. Exactly how much electricity and water us realistic when CCing on a narrow boat, esp during the winter months? I’d be hoping to get a few solar panels, but would also love enough power for a small fridge and potentially a radio, alongside obvious stuff like lighting. Also, I would love a small bath- is this unrealistic in terms of the amount of hot water it would use?

I do have a small bath tub and reckon to go through 400l or so for that, laundry, drinking, cooking and washing up in a week. 400l is my water tank capacity, which varies from boat to boat. Unless you cover the boat in solar panels and live an electrically abstemious life, then you will need another means of charging over winter. The amount of power from the sun in December is a tenth of what it is in June. That means is probably long hours of engine, or generator running. Can you do this while working a conventional day job in winter? CaRT have a 8pm to 8am engine running moratorium. Not regularly fully charging batteries will kill them quickly. The biggest consumer of power in your list is the fridge. 30 to 50Ahrs a day every day. Fridge efficiency is more important than size. I have 250W of solar panels, which will just about keep up with fridge, pumps, lights, radio, phone charging in summer, but not in other seasons. By what I said above, at least 2.5kW of solar would be needed in winter for solar on its own. For hot water, depends how this is being made and where, if anywhere it is being stored. If you are regularly running an engine for battery charging, then a coolant loop to a calorifier gives lots of hot water too.

4. Finding spots to moor in London: how hard is this? How long should I expect to be looking when doing a move?

Don't know.

5. And kind of related to that, how much of the year would realistically be spent actually within London rather than the very outskirts while still subscribing to CRT guidelines. What would a typical yearly route through London look like?

Don't know.

6. I’m a younger single woman- how safe am I? If anyone has any direct experience with the London canals from this demographic, esp the rougher areas, do let me know. 

Don't know about London, as I've not been there by boat. Have boated through other major cities, Brum, Manchester, Leeds and never had any problems. More people around is good. A feel for the neighbourhood. If it feels rough, move on. Local knowledge on good mooring sites.

 

Welcome to the forum. My answers, where I can, in Bold.

Jen

[ditchcrawler]

33 minutes ago, Tim Lewis said:

You will get a better response about the boating in London questions by joining the London Boaters Facebook group

Facebook also has a group for female boaters that may offer help as well

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Do be aware that it is you and a few thousand others all trying to do the same thing in an area with severely limited facilities. Winter will not be fun.

[matty40s]

40 minutes ago, EllaGlssp said:

 

5. And kind of related to that, how much of the year would realistically be spent actually within London rather than the very outskirts while still subscribing to CRT guidelines. What would a typical yearly route through London look like?

 

Try to look at London as something to go through and include the canals/rivers as far as Leighton Buzzard and Bishops Stortford/Hertford as your globe.....the transport links make the whole of this easily commutable.

There are over 300 designated mooring sites within the M25, cruising like this will not only be more enjoyable, it will also keep the CRT checkers and enforcement off your back.....they target the 5% worst offenders first.

Your main issue will be the lack of services in your cruising area, toilet emptying, diesel and gas(you will quickly need to get local coal boat info for supply), and water points. Not only are these in very short supply in Central London, they are also oversubscribed....especially at weekends...as this is when most movement and re-supply goes on.

It's quite a good community down there, and having so many boats, the towpaths have become safer for all users...even in areas that 10 years ago were No Go areas.

[MtB]

53 minutes ago, EllaGlssp said:

2. When looking at boats, what choices should I be l taking into consideration in terms of the specifics that can’t be easily changed.  Currently I’m hoping for a 40-50ft with a cruiser stern. I’m undecided about my preferred layout inside (eg. walk through bathroom, bedroom at front/back) so if anyone has any pros and cons about these things that would be great!

 

I don't think it matters, just buy a boat that you LIKE. This by far the most important thing. You need to love the boat, and it needs to love you. Go and look at some boats. The first one to fall in love with you will make you buy it, resistance will be useless!  

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2021 by MtB
Speeling

[agg221]

9 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Try to look at London as something to go through and include the canals/rivers as far as Leighton Buzzard and Bishops Stortford/Hertford as your globe.....the transport links make the whole of this easily commutable.

There are over 300 designated mooring sites within the M25, cruising like this will not only be more enjoyable, it will also keep the CRT checkers and enforcement off your back.....they target the 5% worst offenders first.

Your main issue will be the lack of services in your cruising area, toilet emptying, diesel and gas(you will quickly need to get local coal boat info for supply), and water points. Not only are these in very short supply in Central London, they are also oversubscribed....especially at weekends...as this is when most movement and re-supply goes on.

It's quite a good community down there, and having so many boats, the towpaths have become safer for all users...even in areas that 10 years ago were No Go areas.

I would echo this. Also, don't forget areas like the Wey and the Basingstoke where transport links can be good.

 

There are also liveaboard moorings available within the M25 if you end up deciding to go that route for an easier life with power and other facilities. Not cheap, but for example a friend has just moved onto Engineer's Wharf in a 72' boat so it is possible.

Where it gets difficult is if you are determined to be based right in central London on continuous cruising. Too many other people had the same idea and it is now extremely busy in consequence.

 

Alec

[Tracy D'arth]

Why a cruiser stern? On a 40 to 50 foot boat you end up with a very small cabin in relation to the length of the boat. for example a 50 foot  trad will give you about 37 foot of cabin. a cruiser will only have around 30 foot of cabin.

Baths are best for keeping coal in. The water use and the cost of heating the water makes them a no-no IMHO.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, EllaGlssp said:

I’m a 23 year old girl looking to buy a boat to continuously cruise, mainly in and around London. I have done months of extensive research so I think I am pretty aware of most of the caveats of this lifestyle at this point, and I’m pretty certain it will be for me. I have a few specific questions about the process of buying and CCing though:

 

1. Where is the most reliable place to source and buy a narrowboat? I have heard that sourcing one outside of London would likely land me a better deal, though this would make viewings more inconvenient. 

2. When looking at boats, what choices should I be l taking into consideration in terms of the specifics that can’t be easily changed.  Currently I’m hoping for a 40-50ft with a cruiser stern. I’m undecided about my preferred layout inside (eg. walk through bathroom, bedroom at front/back) so if anyone has any pros and cons about these things that would be great!

3. Exactly how much electricity and water us realistic when CCing on a narrow boat, esp during the winter months? I’d be hoping to get a few solar panels, but would also love enough power for a small fridge and potentially a radio, alongside obvious stuff like lighting. Also, I would love a small bath- is this unrealistic in terms of the amount of hot water it would use?

4. Finding spots to moor in London: how hard is this? How long should I expect to be looking when doing a move?

5. And kind of related to that, how much of the year would realistically be spent actually within London rather than the very outskirts while still subscribing to CRT guidelines. What would a typical yearly route through London look like?

6. I’m a younger single woman- how safe am I? If anyone has any direct experience with the London canals from this demographic, esp the rougher areas, do let me know. 

 

Thanks so much in advance- any further tips please fire away! 

 

Ella

 

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Boat layout preference is an incredibly personal thing, and in particular influenced by whether you boat alone (as you state) or with others. So what one person likes may not suit someone else. Having owned a boat (now long since thankfully sold) and reflecting on what we had and previously hired my preference would be a reverse layout with a galley accessible direct from the stern and a bedroom at the front. This is completely the opposite to what we actually bought but is what we hired a few times.

 

But then we didn't live on the thing so our choice may have been different (I doubt it though).

 

A walk through bathroom is great if on your own but consider access through the boat if there are guests when the bathroom is in use. Yes you can jump outside and get to the other end but not very nice if it's freezing cold or peeing down outside. Our bathroom wasn't walk through but it was more than adequate in size. A bath can still fit in a off the corridor bathroom.

 

The other stuff I will leave to others as we never ventured that far South on the GU as there be dragons past Northants. (so we are told).

 

Good luck in your search.

[matty40s]

33 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

 

The other stuff I will leave to others as we never ventured that far South on the GU as there be dragons past Northants. (so we are told).

1st one is at the top of Stoke Bruerne flight.

[Slim]

48 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Do be aware that it is you and a few thousand others all trying to do the same thing in an area with severely limited facilities. Winter will not be fun.

By way of a specific example. Yesterday afternoon at about 2pm I drove over the bridge below Coppermill Lock (Harefield area). There was a queue of at least 4 boats below the waterpoint and I think 4 maybe 5 above above it. The last in this queue was blocking the throat of the lock. Wind was probably about 20 mph and the temperature 2 c. Single tap, no other facilities to the best of my knowledge. The whole area, in common with most of London, is full. Hardly the picture as depicted in the Sunday magazines and on TV/u tube.

[enigmatic]

1 hour ago, MtB said:

 

I don't think it matters, just buy a boat that you LIKE. This by far the most important thing. You need to love the boat, and it needs to love you. Go and look at some boats. The first one to fall in love with you will make you buy it, resistance will be useless!  

I'd add to this only buy a boat that you LIKE and that a surveyor says doesn't have any major problems.

 

Both are more important than stern.

[matty40s]

1 hour ago, enigmatic said:

I'd add to this only buy a boat that you LIKE and that a surveyor says doesn't have any major problems.

 

Both are more important than stern.

Hopefully the surveyor should find out if it has a stern or not!

[Alan de Enfield]

59 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Hopefully the surveyor should find out if it has a stern or not!

 

If he couldn't he'd be getting a stern talking to !

[blackrose]

It sounds like you have done some research but be in no doubt that continuous cruising is a hard lifestyle particularly in winter. If you're working from home it's easier because you're where you need to be to do all the jobs that need doing. On the other hand if you need to be in and around London so you can do the 9-5 then it will be very hard indeed and you have to be very organised to do all those things during dark winter evenings and weekends.

 

For someone new to boats living onboard is a steep learning curve anyway, then add to that the challenges of CCing and in some cases it can end up making people hate the lifestyle.

 

Just the voice of realism rather than rose-tinted specs. I CCd for about 3 years from 1998 to 2001 on the southern GU while I was studying, but at that time finding moorings was a lot easier and overstaying wasn't such a big issue. These days there are a lot of people trying to do what you want to do all living cheek by jowl and vying for moorings and facilities.

Edited November 28, 2021 by blackrose

[cheesegas]

I've cc'd in central-ish London (Kensal to Hackney) for about 3 months, cruising and filling with water every weekend. I'm now out of town again.  Ignore all the stuff about water points, the biggest queue I've been in was 1 boat ahead of me with 1 finishing filling, and that was on a Saturday afternoon in mid summer.

 

However, if you have a pump out, it can be very difficult - there's not many points, and due to heavy use they're always breaking down. Consider a cassette or composting with a hotbox on the cruiser stern. Lots of coal boats which post regularly on Facebook, and do weekly routes; one serves the whole system, two go almost the length of the Lea from Kings Cross and two go west from Paddington to Bulls Bridge. They all do gas, diesel and coal and you can have them drop stuff on the boat if you're not in. You're never more than a week away from one passing, very easy, and they always have stocks.

 

Power however is not easy - due to all the high rise flats shading the canal with the sun low in the sky, solar does even less in winter than if you're out of town. You need as much solar as your roof will fit, and to turn the fridge off in winter. I have 1kw which is just keeping up with lights/pumps/charging phones at the moment, in an unshaded spot. Outdoors is your fridge in winter!

 

With regards to spots, it's never been an issue. Leave a whole day to find somewhere/get water, and don't aim for a certain area. You'll often find that if you stop at the first place you see, it won't be far enough to satisfy your license conditions. As said above, don't stick to the central areas, go further afield up past the M25 and to Southall, it gets very nice and green quickly.

 

I didn't have any problems with crime despite mooring in some dark/dodgy feeling areas, boats occasionally get broken into but it tends to be in certain areas (Limehouse) or if you're away for weeks at a time.

 

You can turn a 45-50ft almost anywhere, much bigger than that and you're going a long way to turn! I've got a 45' boat and the longest I've had to go to turn around was a few boat lengths.

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, enigmatic said:

I'd add to this only buy a boat that you LIKE and that a surveyor says doesn't have any major problems.

 

Both are more important than stern.

 

Yes, contrary to what was said earlier, a boat that you like isn't by far the most important factor. Equally important is the condition of the boat. There's absolutely no point falling in love with a boat that needs major hull repairs or a new engine for example, if you don't have the funds or if it would be uneconomical to do that. Sadly quite a lot of people have made that sort of mistake and fallen in love with what looks nice without thinking about boat fundamentals.

[blackrose]

20 minutes ago, cheesegas said:

I've cc'd in central-ish London (Kensal to Hackney) for about 3 months, cruising and filling with water every weekend. I'm now out of town again.  Ignore all the stuff about water points, the biggest queue I've been in was 1 boat ahead of me with 1 finishing filling, and that was on a Saturday afternoon in mid summer.

 

 

I wonder why I couldn't get to any water points in London when I went through a couple of times in 2007/8? They were always busy with queues of boats waiting to use them. Either I was just unlucky or things have improved since then. Or perhaps you've just been lucky in your few months of CCing?

[system 4-50]

6 hours ago, EllaGlssp said:

I’m a 23 year old girl looking to buy a boat to continuously cruise, mainly in and around London. I have done months of extensive research so I think I am pretty aware of most of the caveats of this lifestyle at this point, and I’m pretty certain it will be for me. I have a few specific questions about the process of buying and CCing though:

 

1. Where is the most reliable place to source and buy a narrowboat? I have heard that sourcing one outside of London would likely land me a better deal, though this would make viewings more inconvenient. 

2. When looking at boats, what choices should I be l taking into consideration in terms of the specifics that can’t be easily changed.  Currently I’m hoping for a 40-50ft with a cruiser stern. I’m undecided about my preferred layout inside (eg. walk through bathroom, bedroom at front/back) so if anyone has any pros and cons about these things that would be great! 

I'm a fan of cruiser sterns but for a small boat like this, inside space is more valuable than outside space.  Don't set out preferences, rather have a list of what you could not bear, and see what you can find.

3. Exactly how much electricity and water us realistic when CCing on a narrow boat, esp during the winter months? I’d be hoping to get a few solar panels, but would also love enough power for a small fridge and potentially a radio, alongside obvious stuff like lighting. Get a gas fridge and a Morco D61B type gas instant water heater.

Also, I would love a small bath- is this unrealistic in terms of the amount of hot water it would use? YES!!!

4. Finding spots to moor in London: how hard is this? How long should I expect to be looking when doing a move?

5. And kind of related to that, how much of the year would realistically be spent actually within London rather than the very outskirts while still subscribing to CRT guidelines. What would a typical yearly route through London look like?

6. I’m a younger single woman- how safe am I? If anyone has any direct experience with the London canals from this demographic, esp the rougher areas, do let me know. 

 

Thanks so much in advance- any further tips please fire away! 

 

Ella

 

Some comments above.

A question for the forum, don't fuel boats in London offer pump-outs?  And is it time for fuel boats to do high-speed water tank filling as well? (preferably using different tanks…)

[cheesegas]

15 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I wonder why I couldn't get to any water points in London when I went through a couple of times in 2007/8? They were always busy with queues of boats waiting to use them. Either I was just unlucky or things have improved since then. Or perhaps you've just been lucky in your few months of CCing?

I'm not sure, maybe you got unlucky! The Hackney Wick water point is always busy, but Old Ford is 10 min away and it's rarely used. Speaking to people by the water points, it seemed normal to not have to wait for more than one boat. I was even right next to a water point in Little Venice for a week, and there was rarely a queue.

 

 

4 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

Some comments above.

A question for the forum, don't fuel boats in London offer pump-outs?  And is it time for fuel boats to do high-speed water tank filling as well? (preferably using different tanks…)

Only one of them does, Pete Wakeham's Baron but its appearance is very sporadic and random, and it only services from Paddington through west. I don't think it's been around much this year at all.

 

 

 

One thing I forgot - double mooring. It's a given from Little Venice all the way up to the end of Hackney Marshes, You need to be ok with having curtains closed (this is why venetian blinds are better, let light through) on one side of the boat all the time, and either having to walk across someone's boat or have people walk across yours. I've had some nice chats with people double moored...swapped electrical bits for French cheese and all sorts. However, in winter, the person next to you will be running their engine while stationary; if it's knackered...and they have knackered batteries...your boat will smell of exhaust all the time. Bear in mind vents and exhaust outlet location when mooring.

[David Mack]

Turn the (electric 12V or 240V via inverter) fridge off in winter. It will halve your electricity consumption. You may find a boat fitted with a gas fridge, but if not you cannot now fit one.

Compost toilets may be convenient to use, but CRT are banning the disposal of compost toilet waste in their rubbish bins. So unless you are willing to store the dried waste on board for the 6-12 months it will take to turn into compost, and you have an end-use for the final product, it is a non-starter for a CCer (different if you have a permanent mooring where you can compost on the bank). Pumpout, cassette or porta-potti are viable options, and your choice may be dictated by what is already fitted to the boat you fall in love with.

7 hours ago, EllaGlssp said:

5. And kind of related to that, how much of the year would realistically be spent actually within London rather than the very outskirts while still subscribing to CRT guidelines.

If you have to ask that question it suggests you are not intending to genuinely continuously cruise! It is a contentious subject, to which there is no specific answer. But if you move further and more often than the next guy you are unlikely to get hassled by CRT.

[Tony Brooks]

6 hours ago, agg221 said:

I would echo this. Also, don't forget areas like the Wey and the Basingstoke where transport links can be good.

 

Snip

 

I very much doubt the National Trust (Wey) or the Basingstoke Canal Authority will allow any hint of CCing. I think a Wye license demands a permanent  mooring and they are hard to come by on that river but there may be a newish marina with moorings at a cost.

[David Mack]

7 hours ago, EllaGlssp said:

 

1. Where is the most reliable place to source and buy a narrowboat? I have heard that sourcing one outside of London would likely land me a better deal, though this would make viewings more inconvenient. 

Most brokers advertise on Apolloduck, as well as private sellers.  You will also find boats on Ebay, Gumtree and Facebook Marketplace.

Boats are selling like hot cakes at the moment, so advertised boats may already have sold. Visit some of the brokers and show your interest and you are more likely to be contacted when something has just come in. I'm afraid you either have to put in a lot of leg work or wait until you strike lucky.

Be aware that a lot of older boats are given a quick cosmetic makeover to give an interior which may appeal to uninformed newbies, while ignoring some of the fundamentals (hull condition, engine, gas and electrics etc). Many boats originally with a varnished timber interior (typically pine planking or oak or ash veneered ply) have been painted all-over white - often referred to disparagingly as the 'London white' look. This may well be a look that appeals to a younger metropolitan buyer, but can also cover poor quality construction or damp staining, so try and look beyond the Instagram appeal.

[David Mack]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I very much doubt the National Trust (Wey) or the Basingstoke Canal Authority will allow any hint of CCing. I think a Wye license demands a permanent  mooring and they are hard to come by on that river but there may be a newish marina with moorings at a cost.

CCing is a concept which only applies on CRT waters.  Other navigation authorities will sell you a short term visitor licence, but for a longer stay you will need a paid-for mooring on the navigation.  Note that on the Thames the behaviour of liveaboards blocking prime riverside moorings has resulted in some local authorities banning mooring completely, with substantial fines if you as much as tie up. So even quick shopping trips are out.