Boat mover urgently required asap

[Captain Pegg]

It would be public liability insurance rather than professional indemnity assurance. The former relating to direct loss and the latter to loss consequential to professional advice such as design work. Both can cover the client and any other affected (i.e. third) party.

 

[matty40s]

4 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Exactly that. 

It is that simple. 

 

You cant type much when your fingers are falling off with the cold can you....😉

[PaulJ]

Just now, matty40s said:

You cant type much when your fingers are falling off with the cold can you....😉

Lol. 

I soon warmed up running up.and down Buckby...😀

 

[Alan de Enfield]

Just had a few minutes whilst waiting for the chips to cook :

 

Your Insurers will not pay for :

2.1.10 any liability incurred whilst Your Craft is being used by or is in the custody or control of:

i. shipyard operators or their employees;

ii. repair yard operators or their employees;

iii. slipway operators or their employees;

iv. yacht club operators or their employees;

v. marina operators or their employees;

vi. delivery skippers or their employees or crew;

vii. sales agencies or their employees; or

viii. any other similar organisations

Edited December 8, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[PaulJ]

On 07/12/2021 at 11:28, jeddlad said:

Lol so you would think. All boat movers only have 3rd party liability insurance. Anything they hit whilst moving your boat is covered but your boat isn't. 

 

All the boat movers says they are fully insured, yes they are fully insured, with 3rd party liability insurance.

Well you are 50% right. 

Policies have both an agreed value and excess (cost of which is down to me). This is the maximum single claim value that the owner can make on THE BOAT THAT IS BEING MOVED . 

Yes the general public does also get paid out if I destroy anything/maim/kill them too.

I also reccomend that boat owners notify their insurance company I am moving their boat.

As my policy has the word narrowboatmover in it I would think even the dumbest insurance clerk would pick up on whether I was insured or not. So not a clever move if Im uninsured (according to you)

I have bought many temp licences from different nav authorities using my insurance. 

All the high end brokerages I move boats for have a copy of my insurance- they wont use or reccomend me without it. No insurance , no work.

Hope this helps you understand how insurance works and more importantly I hope anyone that may wrongly believe your version understands it to. Yes there are uninsured cowboys around but Im not one of them!

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

I also reccomend that boat owners notify their insurance company I am moving their boat.

 

How would that have any effect when my insurers specifically state that they offer no cover if the boat is being helmed by a 'delivery skipper' ?

Does that in fact meant that neither your insurance, or my insurance will actually cover the cost of any damage to my boat ?

 

 

Your Insurers will not pay for :

2.1.10 any liability incurred whilst Your Craft is being used by or is in the custody or control of:

i. shipyard operators or their employees;

ii. repair yard operators or their employees;

iii. slipway operators or their employees;

iv. yacht club operators or their employees;

v. marina operators or their employees;

vi. delivery skippers or their employees or crew;

vii. sales agencies or their employees; or

viii. any other similar organisations

[jeddlad]

1 hour ago, PaulJ said:

Well you are 50% right. 

Policies have both an agreed value and excess (cost of which is down to me). This is the maximum single claim value that the owner can make on THE BOAT THAT IS BEING MOVED . 

Yes the general public does also get paid out if I destroy anything/maim/kill them too.

I also reccomend that boat owners notify their insurance company I am moving their boat.

As my policy has the word narrowboatmover in it I would think even the dumbest insurance clerk would pick up on whether I was insured or not. So not a clever move if Im uninsured (according to you)

I have bought many temp licences from different nav authorities using my insurance. 

All the high end brokerages I move boats for have a copy of my insurance- they wont use or reccomend me without it. No insurance , no work.

Hope this helps you understand how insurance works and more importantly I hope anyone that may wrongly believe your version understands it to. Yes there are uninsured cowboys around but Im not one of them!

 

 

 

 

 

I helped a friend set up a boat moving business last year and I contacted multiple insurance companies on his behalf.  No one would cover the actual boat he was moving for any damage (he caused) to that vessel.  They offered 3rd party liability insurance to cover anything he damaged whilst using a customer's vessel but the customer's boat was NOT insured apart from through the customer's own insurance policy. I'm no insurance expert, this is my personal experience after trying to find fully comp kind of cover for my friend and his business. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by jeddlad
Grammar

[Tacet]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How would that have any effect when my insurers specifically state that they offer no cover if the boat is being helmed by a 'delivery skipper' ?

Does that in fact meant that neither your insurance, or my insurance will actually cover the cost of any damage to my boat ?

 

 

Your Insurers will not pay for :

2.1.10 any liability incurred whilst Your Craft is being used by or is in the custody or control of:

i. shipyard operators or their employees;

ii. repair yard operators or their employees;

iii. slipway operators or their employees;

iv. yacht club operators or their employees;

v. marina operators or their employees;

vi. delivery skippers or their employees or crew;

vii. sales agencies or their employees; or

viii. any other similar organisations

It might obviate any suggestion that the boat was insured twice-over, which causes all sorts of problems

[Mike Todd]

3 hours ago, PaulJ said:

Well you are 50% right. 

Policies have both an agreed value and excess (cost of which is down to me). This is the maximum single claim value that the owner can make on THE BOAT THAT IS BEING MOVED . 

Yes the general public does also get paid out if I destroy anything/maim/kill them too.

I also reccomend that boat owners notify their insurance company I am moving their boat.

As my policy has the word narrowboatmover in it I would think even the dumbest insurance clerk would pick up on whether I was insured or not. So not a clever move if Im uninsured (according to you)

I have bought many temp licences from different nav authorities using my insurance. 

All the high end brokerages I move boats for have a copy of my insurance- they wont use or reccomend me without it. No insurance , no work.

Hope this helps you understand how insurance works and more importantly I hope anyone that may wrongly believe your version understands it to. Yes there are uninsured cowboys around but Im not one of them!

 

 

 

 

 

The brokerages require evidence of insurance just the same as should any customer - not everyone in life is as diligent as you. The problem, especially as a one-off user, is spotting the rogue ones.

[Alan de Enfield]

40 minutes ago, Tacet said:

It might obviate any suggestion that the boat was insured twice-over, which causes all sorts of problems

 

 

Or, unless the boat mover has insurance which not only covers 3rd parties, but the boat he is helming, your boat has no insurance.

 

Just wondering : as the delivery-skipper is not the owner, does the boat he is delivering then become a 3rd parties property and is therefore covered as well ?

 

 

3 hours ago, PaulJ said:

This is the maximum single claim value that the owner can make on THE BOAT THAT IS BEING MOVED . 

 

 

Does this then mean cover ON the boat being moved, or  AGAINST the boat mover moving the boat ?

Edited December 9, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[IanD]

26 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Or, unless the boat mover has insurance which not only covers 3rd parties, but the boat he is helming, your boat has no insurance.

 

Just wondering : as the delivery-skipper is not the owner, does the boat he is delivering then become a 3rd parties property and is therefore covered as well ?

 

Does this then mean cover ON the boat being moved, or  AGAINST the boat mover moving the boat ?

 

The missing information here is what type of cover PaulJ's insurance provides. To be allowed to move the boat legally there *must* be third party cover to satisfy CART, just like for a car, and which I'm sure he has as a "narrowboatmover".

 

There is however no legal requirement to have comprehensive cover for the boat itself, also just like a car -- but for sure any owner would be taking a big risk if this wasn't in place when the boat was being moved for them, because clearly their own policy won't provide any cover. So everyone else (CART and other boats) would be OK if disaster struck, but they wouldn't be.

 

And Jeddlad's comment says that he was unable to find any insurer who would provide such cover to a boat-mover. If this is the case the only option would be for the owner to contact their own insurance company and ask if temporary cover could be provided while the boat is being moved, but they might not agree to this (or charge a huge premium).

 

Maybe PaulJ can clarify this?

Edited December 9, 2021 by IanD

[PaulJ]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

How would that have any effect when my insurers specifically state that they offer no cover if the boat is being helmed by a 'delivery skipper' ?

Does that in fact meant that neither your insurance, or my insurance will actually cover the cost of any damage to my boat ?

 

 

Your Insurers will not pay for :

2.1.10 any liability incurred whilst Your Craft is being used by or is in the custody or control of:

i. shipyard operators or their employees;

ii. repair yard operators or their employees;

iii. slipway operators or their employees;

iv. yacht club operators or their employees;

v. marina operators or their employees;

vi. delivery skippers or their employees or crew;

vii. sales agencies or their employees; or

viii. any other similar organisations

Because in order for you to claim your insurer would talk to mine.

[IanD]

8 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Because in order for you to claim your insurer would talk to mine.

So does your insurer cover the boat for damage, or is the assumption that having talked to your insurer the owner's insurer will provide cover, in spite of their policy saying otherwise?

 

I'm not being nitpicky for the sake of it here, I want to know because I might also need a boat moving next year.

 

Whose insurer covers the boat itself when it's being moved by an insured professional boat-mover like you?

 

If the answer is "the owner's, after talking to yours", do they *have* to do this or only if they're feeling nice? (which is not a sentiment normally associated with insurers, who also normally avoid split or duplicated cover like the plague)

Edited December 9, 2021 by IanD

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

Because in order for you to claim your insurer would talk to mine.

 

I'm not following this :

 

Are you saying that despite my insurers saying they offer no cover whilst in transit by a 'delivery skipper', if 'your insurers' ask 'my insurers' then my boat will be covered and I need to make a claim against my insurers for any damage suffered to my boat.

 

Your insurers say "its only 3rd party on our boatmover policy so we will not be paying out.

My insurers say our cover is temporally withdrawn whilst in the custody of a delivery skipper - we will not be paying out.

 

Hmm - that leaves .............................

 

 

 

 

My insurers specifically exclude cover whilst it is in 'the custody' of'others' ie a repair yard - so whilst blacking, it falls off the trestles and untold damage is caused. My insurers said "we told you it wasn't insured you must claim off ' the yard', but 'the yard' say our insurance is only 3rd party, our insurers will pay out if it fell on someone but not for damage to the boat.

 

I'm thinking folks should carefully read their insurance policy documents !

Edited December 9, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[PaulJ]

4 hours ago, jeddlad said:

I helped a friend set up a boat moving business last year and I contacted multiple insurance companies on his behalf.  No one would cover the actual boat he was moving for any damage (he caused) to that vessel.  They offered 3rd party liability insurance to cover anything he damaged whilst using a customer's vessel but the customer's boat was NOT insured apart from through the customer's own insurance policy. I'm no insurance expert, this is my personal experience after trying to find fully comp kind of cover for my friend and his business. 

I cant really comment on why but perhaps something to do with experience?

I have 30 years plus in the marine trade as well as an exempelery insurance history for same. I have had no issues getting cover.

[PaulJ]

1 hour ago, IanD said:

So does your insurer cover the boat for damage, or is the assumption that having talked to your insurer the owner's insurer will provide cover, in spite of their policy saying otherwise?

 

I'm not being nitpicky for the sake of it here, I want to know because I might also need a boat moving next year.

 

Whose insurer covers the boat itself when it's being moved by an insured professional boat-mover like you?

 

If the answer is "the owner's, after talking to yours", do they *have* to do this or only if they're feeling nice? (which is not a sentiment normally associated with insurers, who also normally avoid split or duplicated cover like the plague)

As I stated earlier- my insurance covers the boat I move. Yours is unlikely to cover me.

This is why my insurers ask me what the maximum value of the boats I move is and only covers me to that point (£150,000 if I recall correctly) yet my third party liability is 3 million (which exceeds nav authorities minimum requirement).

I cannot however make any claim for myself, injuries or property etc...

The reason I reccomend people tell their own insurers is simple- it puts whats going on in place should something go wrong and transparency- people have all my insurance details, its all on file and can be easily checked by their insurers.

[IanD]

18 minutes ago, PaulJ said:

As I stated earlier- my insurance covers the boat I move. Yours is unlikely to cover me.

This is why my insurers ask me what the maximum value of the boats I move is and only covers me to that point (£150,000 if I recall correctly) yet my third party liability is 3 million (which exceeds nav authorities minimum requirement).

I cannot however make any claim for myself, injuries or property etc...

The reason I reccomend people tell their own insurers is simple- it puts whats going on in place should something go wrong and transparency- people have all my insurance details, its all on file and can be easily checked by their insurers.

Just to be clear, you never actually said that your insurance covered damage or loss to the boat you moved, you said it covered you to move the boat (third party) which is different...;-)

 

Anyway it's clear now that your policy *does* cover the boat, at least up to £150k value, which should keep most customers happy 🙂

Edited December 9, 2021 by IanD

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, Tacet said:

It might obviate any suggestion that the boat was insured twice-over, which causes all sorts of problems

Only a problem if you try to claim twice! I have heard of situations where two separate policies end up covering an incident and the two companies agree to pay part each (but I cannot recall exact details - so don't ask!)

[Tacet]

7 hours ago, Tacet said:

It might obviate any suggestion that the boat was insured twice-over, which causes all sorts of problems

 

3 hours ago, Mike Todd said:

Only a problem if you try to claim twice! I have heard of situations where two separate policies end up covering an incident and the two companies agree to pay part each (but I cannot recall exact details - so don't ask!)

Conventionally insurance policies contain an exclusion of cover if there is other insurance.  Which gets tricky if both policies make the same provision

[Tacet]

7 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Just wondering : as the delivery-skipper is not the owner, does the boat he is delivering then become a 3rd parties property and is therefore covered as well ?

 

The policy holder (boat mover) is the first party, the insurance company is the second party - and anyone seeking to make a claim against the insured is a third party.

 

So as a matter of grammar only, a valid claim by the boat owner against the boat mover for, say, the sinking of the boat would be met under a third party policy.  But in practice, you would need to study the policy to see what it covered - and not just rely on a rather general statement that it is third party cover. And I have no idea what a typical boatmover's policy provides. 

 

A fully comprehensive policy typically adds cover for the first party's own losses

[MtB]

Is anyone else reading this thread losing the will to live? 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, MtB said:

Is anyone else reading this thread losing the will to live? 

 

 

4 Hours ago (post number X) PaulJ clarified that his insurance covers any damage to the boat he is moving.

There appears to be nothing else to discuss.

[Mac of Cygnet]

10 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

4 Hours ago (post number X) PaulJ clarified that his insurance covers any damage to the boat he is moving.

There appears to be nothing else to discuss.

 

Not until the OP comes back, anyway.  I wonder what she decided?

[matty40s]

I think that's the boat Paul is moving this week!!

[Mike Todd]

15 hours ago, MtB said:

Is anyone else reading this thread losing the will to live? 

 

That, of course, is why too many claims are rejected because the insured (boater in this case) did not have the will to read all the small print - like me - only to find an exclusion when it is too late to do anything about it.