Newly rebuild 1.5 BMC engine overheat and stops after a few minutes [VIDEOS]

[MrMetta]

Hello friends My Newly rebuild 1.5 BMC engine overheat and stops after a few minutes.what could be the problem? Videos Included Thank you !

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiGesnKDvKI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WRMFuXW2KM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URQag5yo6IE

[Tony Brooks]

What type of boat is it in and what type of cooling system does it have?

It does not seem to have a marine manifold on it.

If tank cooled have you bled the skin tank?

Is there a primary filter between tank and lift pump, if so is it clean?

What happens if you try to run it from a separate small tank connected to the lift pump?

 

The fact it does not try to rev up as it stops makes me suspect it is not fuel so I fear it may be seizing. Who did the overhaul? Was the block and head faces checked for flatness? Was the block and head pressure tested for crackss?

 

 

 

[MrMetta]

2 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

What type of boat is it in and what type of cooling system does it have?

It does not seem to have a marine manifold on it.

If tank cooled have you bled the skin tank?

Is there a primary filter between tank and lift pump, if so is it clean?

What happens if you try to run it from a separate small tank connected to the lift pump?

 

The fact it does not try to rev up as it stops makes me suspect it is not fuel so I fear it may be seizing. Who did the overhaul? Was the block and head faces checked for flatness? Was the block and head pressure tested for crackss?

 

 

 

Thank you very much for the reply, Its a 1.5 BMC fitted Morris car not a boat, one of my friends did the overhaul, he is a amateur.my friend said me he faced the engine block, but not the head.Not tested for cracks  What should I do now

[Tony Brooks]

If the engine was n good condition it should not be much more that warm after a few minutes running. It certainly should not be boiling so I fear an internal crack allowing hot gasses into the coolant galleries of a badly failed head gasket. The head gasket could be caused by a warped head.

 

I note that you are from Sri Lanka and from what I hear about some engineering in that part of the world was a new head gasket used?

 

I would also point out that to correctly tighten down the head nuts you need a crows foot spanner so if the friend does not have one he may have distorted the head.

 

What to do? Get a crows foot spanner/socket. Head off and inspect gasket for failure point. All head studs out of block and check for truth/flatness. Ditto the head face. If the two faces are true and the gasket looked fine then I fear either the block or head is cracked.

 

Late thought - you do have the fan belt fitted and tensioned I assume.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[MrMetta]

59 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

If the engine was n good condition it should not be much more that warm after a few minutes running. It certainly should not be boiling so I fear an internal crack allowing hot gasses into the coolant galleries of a badly failed head gasket. The head gasket could be caused by a warped head.

 

I note that you are from Sri Lanka and from what I hear about some engineering in that part of the world was a new head gasket used?

 

I would also point out that to correctly tighten down the head nuts you need a crows foot spanner so if the friend does not have one he may have distorted the head.

 

What to do? Get a crows foot spanner/socket. Head off and inspect gasket for failure point. All head studs out of block and check for truth/flatness. Ditto the head face. If the two faces are true and the gasket looked fine then I fear either the block or head is cracked.

 

Late thought - you do have the fan belt fitted and tensioned I assume.

Great Tips  ,I should ask my friend before answering to some of your questions,I will ask and update the thread ,thank you kindly !!  

[john.k]

Watched the  video ...its not a happy motor ......id say ,pull it down again ,and see whats wrong......a cracked head will blow water and gas  ,but not that much steam straight away.........alls can be done is a pulldown.

Edited November 16, 2021 by john.k

[MtB]

5 minutes ago, john.k said:

Watched first video ...its not seizing ,but out of fuel.........find out why...

 

What Iooks like exhaust smoke drifting across the engine during the first two videos turned out from the 3rd video to be coming from the expansion tank overflow, so there is more to it than that. I think Tony has it. Combustion gas is getting into the coolant, and lots of it. Not sure why this would cause the engine to spontaneously stop though. Maybe running out of fuel too. 

[john.k]

Yeah ,I changed my mind after watching the next two.....I thought it had steam blowing out...pulldown for sure.

[Tracy D'arth]

2 hours ago, MtB said:

 

What Iooks like exhaust smoke drifting across the engine during the first two videos turned out from the 3rd video to be coming from the expansion tank overflow, so there is more to it than that. I think Tony has it. Combustion gas is getting into the coolant, and lots of it. Not sure why this would cause the engine to spontaneously stop though. Maybe running out of fuel too. 

With the engine ingesting so much water and steam from the expansion tank, it will chill the cylinders and cause the engine to stop without it seizing up.

I have had this on an enclosed engine when the box filled with steam, it just died but would then restart easily once the steam had escaped.

[MrMetta]

6 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

If the engine was n good condition it should not be much more that warm after a few minutes running. It certainly should not be boiling so I fear an internal crack allowing hot gasses into the coolant galleries of a badly failed head gasket. The head gasket could be caused by a warped head.

 

I note that you are from Sri Lanka and from what I hear about some engineering in that part of the world was a new head gasket used?

 

I would also point out that to correctly tighten down the head nuts you need a crows foot spanner so if the friend does not have one he may have distorted the head.

 

What to do? Get a crows foot spanner/socket. Head off and inspect gasket for failure point. All head studs out of block and check for truth/flatness. Ditto the head face. If the two faces are true and the gasket looked fine then I fear either the block or head is cracked.

 

Late thought - you do have the fan belt fitted and tensioned I assume.

My friend said me that he replaced the head gasket with a new one, however few hours back I noticed that the diesel is floating inside the expansion tank,(video attached),it could be a problem in the head gasket right ? Thanks  

 

 

 

Edited November 16, 2021 by MrMetta

[MrMetta]

5 hours ago, john.k said:

Watched the  video ...its not a happy motor ......id say ,pull it down again ,and see whats wrong......a cracked head will blow water and gas  ,but not that much steam straight away.........alls can be done is a pulldown.

4 hours ago, john.k said:

Yeah ,I changed my mind after watching the next two.....I thought it had steam blowing out...pulldown for sure.

Thanks for the reply  

 

4 hours ago, MtB said:

 

What Iooks like exhaust smoke drifting across the engine during the first two videos turned out from the 3rd video to be coming from the expansion tank overflow, so there is more to it than that. I think Tony has it. Combustion gas is getting into the coolant, and lots of it. Not sure why this would cause the engine to spontaneously stop though. Maybe running out of fuel too. 

 

Thanks for the reply  I had a problem in my Injector Pump as well,but I repaired it,dont know wheather the problem still exists  

 

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

With the engine ingesting so much water and steam from the expansion tank, it will chill the cylinders and cause the engine to stop without it seizing up.

I have had this on an enclosed engine when the box filled with steam, it just died but would then restart easily once the steam had escaped.

 

Thanks for the reply  OHH thats Cool,good that you told it 

[Tony Brooks]

7 minutes ago, MrMetta said:

My friend said me that he replaced the head gasket with a new one, however few hours back I noticed that the diesel is floating inside the expansion tank,(video attached),it could be a problem in the head gasket right ? Thanks  

 

 

 

 

I would not like to say if its diesel or clean lubricating oil from the photo. I would also want to know if the head was put into a degreasing tank to soften the carbon. If so t could be the residue of that from the water galleries. If it is oil or diesel I think the head will still have to come off because it could be either the gasket or a crack.

 

 

[MrMetta]

9 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I would not like to say if its diesel or clean lubricating oil from the photo. I would also want to know if the head was put into a degreasing tank to soften the carbon. If so t could be the residue of that from the water galleries. If it is oil or diesel I think the head will still have to come off because it could be either the gasket or a crack.

 

 

No he didn't put the head  into a degreasing tank,I told him to remove the head and inspect the gasket as you instructed me,he will do it tomorrow.will update the thread  tomorrow,Thanks for your valuable suggestions  

Edited November 16, 2021 by MrMetta

[Tony Brooks]

Lets have photos of both sides of the gasket.

[MrMetta]

16 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

Lets have photos of both sides of the gasket.

 

Your assumption is very correct  , the head gasket is gone   right ? Thanks for your guidance. Highly appreciate...Video and Photos Included...Any advice to my friend ?? 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqhdMA2zy98

 

Head 

 

 

Head Gasket Side 1

 

 

Head Gasket Side 2

 

[john.k]

check block and head all over with a straightedge .....see if the faces are flat within say 002.......

[RLWP]

Where are the three missing combustion chamber inserts?

 

 

Richard

[john.k]

Surely the inserts were there when it was running!...pulled to look for cracks?.....it actually sounded OK running .....I also assumed the smoke was diesel spilt on the exhaust ,or maybe blowby ,lots of blowby.

[MrMetta]

13 minutes ago, john.k said:

check block and head all over with a straightedge .....see if the faces are flat within say 002.......

Thanks for the reply  I will check.

13 minutes ago, RLWP said:

Where are the three missing combustion chamber inserts?

 

 

Richard

 

my friend removed them  Thank you

 

5 minutes ago, john.k said:

Surely the inserts were there when it was running!...pulled to look for cracks?.....it actually sounded OK running .....I also assumed the smoke was diesel spilt on the exhaust ,or maybe blowby ,lots of blowby.

 

the head gasket is gone right  Its an Indian made gasket, any suggestions  Thank you

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, john.k said:

Surely the inserts were there when it was running!...pulled to look for cracks?.....it actually sounded OK running .....I also assumed the smoke was diesel spilt on the exhaust ,or maybe blowby ,lots of blowby.

 

Given the thin layer of soot on the surface of the holes which should have inserts, and matching the soot on the surface of the combustion chambers, my guess is they have been missing all along! 

 

But if so, it is astounding that it ran at all. 

[MrMetta]

13 minutes ago, MtB said:

 

Given the thin layer of soot on the surface of the holes which should have inserts, and matching the soot on the surface of the combustion chambers, my guess is they have been missing all along! 

inserts were there, came down loosely when removing the head, Thank you  

 

Edited November 17, 2021 by MrMetta

[Tracy D'arth]

The inserts should not fall out like that, they are usually difficult to get out. Are they cracked? If they are so loose, were they correctly lined up with the flame holes in the correct place?

It looks as though the cylinder that the gasket failed on is the only one with the insert still fitted.

 

The flame hole looks to be the wrong shape on that insert too, is it damaged?

Something is bent with that head.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Tracy D'arth

[Tony Brooks]

38 minutes ago, MrMetta said:

inserts were there, came down loosely when removing the head, Thank you  

 

 

That does not sound right for a BMC, Perkins just possibly, but not the BMC. In my experience they are extremely difficult to get out and need  a press to fit new ones. However with heads coming from all over maybe the tolerances have become slacker.

 

As said, definitely check the head and block with a straight edge and feelers or just possibly blue on a surface plate, but I doubt you have access to one of those.

 

Please ensure friend has a crows foot spanner so he can torque the head down to the correct toque and in the correct order. If would not surprise me if the centre line of head nuts were never properly re-torqued because the rocker shaft i sin the way.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Tony Brooks

[john.k]

Gasket looks like it might be MLS ?......if so ,flatness of head and block ,and correct protrusion (or not) of swirl chambers is critical to sealing.

[Tracy D'arth]

The precombustion Riccardo chambers originally do protrude slightly from the head face when new but heads are often skimmed with them still fitted because they are difficult to remove, so that they are then flush. This does not generally cause a problem.

 

They should not fall out and the remaining one looks all wrong, the flame port should be rectangular, not the shape of that one. What state are the others in ?