Anyone passing Barrowford Locks?

[Mike Hurley]

In the news the other day it said that the aussie soap Neighbors was finishing after 37 years, i get the feeling you will beat that with this rudder.

[Chagall]

12 minutes ago, Mike Hurley said:

In the news the other day it said that the aussie soap Neighbors was finishing after 37 years, i get the feeling you will beat that with this rudder.

Believe me, I could turn it into a drama to rival any soap opera!  Given permission of course.  😉 

[Alan de Enfield]

49 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I sometimes think I am living in a parallel universe.

 

 

I think most here would agree with that.

[PD1964]

Too Shallow for what? To get the boat out of the water? I thought it might be easier to get the rudder back on if the boat was on the bottom in Shallow water, if it could be replaced whilst in water.

[nicknorman]

6 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

Too Shallow for what? To get the boat out of the water? I thought it might be easier to get the rudder back on if the boat was on the bottom in Shallow water, if it could be replaced whilst in water.

No I think the point is that it has to be inserted from underneath, so it needs to be deep enough so the top of the rudder spindle can be inserted into the rudder tube hole at the bottom of the counter. But a full lock has deep water…

[PD1964]

40 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

No I think the point is that it has to be inserted from underneath, so it needs to be deep enough so the top of the rudder spindle can be inserted into the rudder tube hole at the bottom of the counter. But a full lock has deep water…

Yes, but I’m sure the previous owner couldn’t do this due to the skeg and not being able to get the angle, hence the cut and re-weld of the shaft that snapped causing this dilemma. So thought they might use a cup/socket with a 2 part shaft? 
  With the amount of rain we had lately I imagine the canal would be quite full and not low.

  Maybe she can put a photo of the repair on and description of how they’re going to do it, to save speculation as everyone is curious.

Edited March 10, 2022 by PD1964

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, nicknorman said:

No I think the point is that it has to be inserted from underneath, so it needs to be deep enough so the top of the rudder spindle can be inserted into the rudder tube hole at the bottom of the counter. But a full lock has deep water…

Indeed, and I was at a lock for four months, nothing was happening, the rudder was repaired so I asked if the water was deep enough, meaning at the marina, I was advised it would be, in the centre of the canal, but now it seems it is not. Now its suggested I move to a different lock, easy enough if one has steering, and two working legs, I suppose. 

The repairs to this part of the L&L have been disrupted by storm Eunice, so I can't escape for a while anyway, maybe the rudder repair will be completed in the next few weeks and I will be on my way, sometime, I don't know when, obviously. It's a straight forward job, I cannot understand why it has taken four months to get nowhere. There is little point in shouting and screaming. I can't fit it myself. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by LadyG

[PD1964]

26 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Indeed, and I was at a lock for four months, nothing was happening, the rudder was repaired so I asked if the water was deep enough, I was advised it was, but now it seems it is not. Now its suggested I move to a different lock, easy enough if one has steering. And two working legs, I suppose. 

I thought the whole idea of moving your boat was to take it to a place to get the repair done there? 
  The reason why the rudder was cut and re-welded according to the previous owner was that it couldn’t be inserted from below due to the skeg and not achieving the clearance angle. This has been mentioned previously, with the weld breaking hence your dilemma. Can the rudder now be inserted from below when before it could not?

Edited March 10, 2022 by PD1964

[LadyG]

10 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I thought the whole idea of moving your boat was to take it to a place to get the repair done there? 
  The reason why the rudder was cut and re-welded according to the previous owner was that it couldn’t be inserted from below due to the skeg and not achieving the clearance angle. This has been mentioned previously, with the weld breaking hence your dilemma. Can the rudder now be inserted from below when before it could not?

The rudder has now been re designed to make it a regular design  and not a bodge. 

I was told there would be sufficient depth to assemble it, but now I am here, apparently there not.

SIGH. 

I don't know why narrowboat businesses are like this, if you can't DIY they can't either. 

Almost everyone involved is confident it's an easy job, almost everyone. 

I will report if and when the rudder is fitted, next week. 

I must say that I have never seen such a drama on YouTube Narrowboat blogs. I have to assume those who get these never ending problems just give up. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

38 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I have to assume those who get these never ending problems just give up. 

 

I think you are unique.

I have been boating for 40 years and have come to know quite a few people during that time, I have never met anyone who has the non-stop series of problems that you seem to have - and - it's not just boating is it, you had similar issues with people working on and selling your flat. Was it three estate agents you got thru'?

 

Just keep thinking, it can only get better.

[bizzard]

They should have made a two piece one, like the old Harborough Marine boats. pass the stock down the tube from the top. The bottom of the stock has a say a 6'' split up it into which the rudder blade is inserted and held in it by three or four nuts and bolts, or I suppose could be welded, but nuts and bolts are best in case of future problems. A stub bolted or welded to the bottom of the rudder blade in line with the stock to sit in the skeg cup.

[Arthur Marshall]

11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I think you are unique.

I have been boating for 40 years and have come to know quite a few people during that time, I have never met anyone who has the non-stop series of problems that you seem to have - and - it's not just boating is it, you had similar issues with people working on and selling your flat. Was it three estate agents you got thru'?

 

Just keep thinking, it can only get better.

Not so. I have rarely had a problem on the boat that, once fixed by a qualified,  experienced and often recommended engineer, didn't need another few hundred quid being spent to get a further engineer to put the job right.

That includes the bloke who did a great job in rebuilding the gearbox but put everything back so badly I had to get the coupling taken out and repaired after he didn't bother to bolt it back together, the BSS inspector/ electrician whose rewiring had to be redone so it would pass the next inspection, the guy who replaced the leakoff so it broke in two months... 

Generally, if you can't do a job yourself, the odds are it won't be done right the first time, but if you're lucky, the second guy's cockups will be minor enough for you to fix yourself (like just tightening up the loose bolts). I factor this in now.

[PD1964]

12 minutes ago, bizzard said:

They should have made a two piece one, like the old Harborough Marine boats. pass the stock down the tube from the top. The bottom of the stock has a say a 6'' split up it into which the rudder blade is inserted and held in it by three or four nuts and bolts, or I suppose could be welded, but nuts and bolts are best in case of future problems. A stub bolted or welded to the bottom of the rudder blade in line with the stock to sit in the skeg cup.

    I thought they might of considered this too, with the previous owner having to cut and re-weld the shaft to remove and replace it for previous work on the stern.  
  I can’t see that anything has changed with the geometry of the skeg and through tube, that now would make the shaft fit from below. Or am I missing something that I’ve not read???
  

[bizzard]

Or it could have been done Liverpool Boat style. Rudder blade, trailing and balance parts welded either side of a length of tube. The stock again passes down from the top through the tube and into the skeg cup, and again bolted through the rudder tube and stock. A couple of location blind holes in the stock with nuts welded to the tube sides to take the bolts which locate in the blind holes, to hold it firm and strong as the through nut and bolt would wear and cause play and are really only there for extra security.

[PD1964]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Not so. I have rarely had a problem on the boat that, once fixed by a qualified,  experienced and often recommended engineer, didn't need another few hundred quid being spent to get a further engineer to put the job right.

That includes the bloke who did a great job in rebuilding the gearbox but put everything back so badly I had to get the coupling taken out and repaired after he didn't bother to bolt it back together, the BSS inspector/ electrician whose rewiring had to be redone so it would pass the next inspection, the guy who replaced the leakoff so it broke in two months... 

Generally, if you can't do a job yourself, the odds are it won't be done right the first time, but if you're lucky, the second guy's cockups will be minor enough for you to fix yourself (like just tightening up the loose bolts). I factor this in now.

I think sometimes when people get work done on their boat they are too friendly with the engineer/fitter. They often have met the person before and are inquisitive of how they’re doing the job. They offer him cups of tea, food and engage in friendly family, world and daily life questions and conversations.

  This leads to the engineer/fitter being distracted from the job in hand and sometimes complacency and forgetfulness as to what stage he’s at, leading to minor mistakes. It would be better if the owner left the boat to leave the workman to the task in hand.

  That said a good engineer would check everything off before leaving the task or maybe there’s some customers/boats they can’t wait to get away from😂

  

Edited March 11, 2022 by PD1964

[Chagall]

7 minutes ago, PD1964 said:

I think sometimes when people get work done on their boat they are too friendly with the engineer/fitter. They often have met the person before and are inquisitive of how they’re doing the job. They offer him cups of tea, food and engage in friendly family, world and daily life questions and conversations.

 

That's a very good point.  Some also witter on about previous mishaps or grievances until the engineer becomes weary of listening to a tirade of alleged errors.  

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, Chagall said:

That's a very good point.  Some also witter on about previous mishaps or grievances until the engineer becomes weary of listening to a tirade of alleged errors.  

If that's aimed at me, perchance, it's so wrong, no cups of tea, no wittering on, in four months I think I've spoken to the guy three times in person. 

RCR recommended two people, one of whom had already made a mess of cleaning up the engine hole, ie had made situation worse, spilling diesel from the fuel filter, supposed to be professional. I protested with RCR and she admitted they had plenty of complaints about this guy WHAT!!!!!!!!

 

Edited March 11, 2022 by LadyG

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, PD1964 said:

I think sometimes when people get work done on their boat they are too friendly with the engineer/fitter. They often have met the person before and are inquisitive of how they’re doing the job. They offer him cups of tea, food and engage in friendly family, world and daily life questions and conversations.

  This leads to the engineer/fitter being distracted from the job in hand and sometimes complacency and forgetfulness as to what stage he’s at, leading to minor mistakes. It would be better if the owner left the boat to leave the workman to the task in hand.

  That said a good engineer would check everything off before leaving the task or maybe there’s some customers/boats they can’t wait to get away from😂

  

I'm sure they should, but they don't.  The bloke who did the gearbox runs a boatyard with a skyhigh rep on the L&L, knows Listers backwards.  He put the coupling back with half the bolts missing (I assume he'd lost them) and when I ran the engine when he left, two of the nuts fell of straight away.  I made him come back and tighten them up, but it was only after that I noticed that half of them were missing entirely.  He'd cocked it up to such an extent it cost nearly a grand to get it put right.

I'd be interested to know how you can tell a "good" enginer from a shoddy one? Do they carry a label, or drink different tea?  All these blokes who made pigs ears were reccomended.

[Arthur Marshall]

2 hours ago, Chagall said:

That's a very good point.  Some also witter on about previous mishaps or grievances until the engineer becomes weary of listening to a tirade of alleged errors.  

It's usually the engineer who witters on about how badly the last person did the job. And maybe, just maybe, telling them you are aware that stuff has been left buggered up in the past might encourage them to do a job properly.  Unlikely, I admit.

[PD1964]

56 minutes ago, LadyG said:

RCR recommended two people, one of whom had already made a mess of cleaning up the engine hole, ie had made situation worse, spilling diesel from the fuel filter, supposed to be professional. I protested with RCR and she admitted they had plenty of complaints about this guy WHAT!!!!!!!!

 

Does this guy run a small yard at Thorne?

Edited March 11, 2022 by PD1964

[Tracy D'arth]

I have stopped working on others' boats. Most of the owners are a complete pain, don't want to spend any money but want everything perfect and gold plated.

My friend who changed the alternator last week for a guy had to do loads of running about and working in foul weather, never even got a thank-you. He did pay though, after arguing about the time taken and asking if the old rusted scrap alternator had any recycling value to knock off the bill.

 

The other problem I have found is the condition of some of the boats that need repair. I remember a boat with a Lister engine, water cooled, that needed new injector pipes, where the whole of the space around the engine and down into the bilge was full of clutter and  stuff. The owner expected me to remove it all and put it all back in exactly the same places. I walked off that one.

 

Some owners are their own worst enemies.

[LadyG]

20 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

It's usually the engineer who witters on about how badly the last person did the job. And maybe, just maybe, telling them you are aware that stuff has been left buggered up in the past might encourage them to do a job properly.  Unlikely, I admit.

I think I would prefer to use experienced guys who are employed rather than those with a one man business, but to be honest I've had bad experiences both ways. What is infuriating is that they discuss what is to be done, how it is to be done, then do something else, what is the reasoning behind that, other than they are doing the easy bits. I can do the easy bits, I pay them to do the bits I can't do, is that not obvious? If I were to discuss how useless others have been, they would probably walk away. They must never get any repeat business, so they dont bother doing a proper job. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by LadyG

[haggis]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

I think I would prefer to use experienced guys who are employed rather than those with a one man business, but to be honest I've had bad experiences both ways. What is infuriating is that they discuss what is to be done, how it is to be done, then do something else, what is the reasoning behind that, other than they are doing the easy bits. I can do the easy bits, I pay them to do the bits I can't do, is that not obvious? If I were to discuss how useless others have been, they would probably walk away. This must never get any repeat business. It's a self fulfilling prophecy 

You seem to have had very bad luck with almost all the workmen you have had on your boat since you got it or perhaps it is just that we only hear about the useless ones and you have had many positive experiences which you haven't told us about. I hope this is the case as I just can't understand how all the "useless" workmen end up on your boat 🙂 

[PD1964]

Anyway, back to your dilemma.

 Have they made a completely new rudder assembly or just welded the old shaft back together?

  A photo would be good?

Edited March 11, 2022 by PD1964

[LadyG]

48 minutes ago, haggis said:

You seem to have had very bad luck with almost all the workmen you have had on your boat since you got it or perhaps it is just that we only hear about the useless ones and you have had many positive experiences which you haven't told us about. I hope this is the case as I just can't understand how all the "useless" workmen end up on your boat 🙂 

I can, they they think as a woman I am a soft target, they must be right as they walk away with my money and its only after I find out they have made the situation worse i one way or another. 

Not all those who have serviced the engine have made the situation worse, they just have not really serviced the engine in a standard manner, they have changed the oil and the fuel filter, I can't reach the gearbox, one drained it with the sump plug, showed me the magnetic sump plug, which collects metal, I think the others just drew the fluid out with a Pela pump. Only one inspected the hoses and checked the clamps, as far as I know, I don't always peer over their shoulder, but maybe I should. I usually have a few little jobs need doing which is why I get them to service the engine, but there does not seem to be any consistency, so maybe it is a good thing to use different ones. I would like someone to clean water and crud out my fuel tank, but none of them seem equipped for that kind of thing, I did it myself when I bought the boat, not too difficult. I think the pump failed in the end and went back to Lidl. 

I don't think there is any standard qualification, it can't be too hard but I get the impression  most (the so called electricians) are not qualified, just boaters who are earning a bit extra. 

For sure I would be a lot more carefull if the engine needed repair, but touch wood, it keeps on working very nicely. 

I do as much as I can rather than pay others, but my electric skills are very limited, and the system too complex. I don't have big tools, or anything, and anyway I don't really want to do much more than paintwork maintenance and minor cabin upgrades. The idea is to tootle along without a care in the world. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by LadyG