Jump to content

Andy Burnham: “don’t throw Manchester hire bikes in the canal”


Featured Posts

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

The substance is the same though. Surely you wouldn't be swayed into believing in two opposite things merely because of the style of presentation?

It isn't to do with style of presentation it is to do with being rational, factual and logical.   All things your side of the discussion aren't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Jerra said:

It isn't to do with style of presentation it is to do with being rational, factual and logical.   All things your side of the discussion aren't.

So you accept something if it's presented factually, rationally and logically but reject the same argument when it's made in a different way. That sounds neither rational nor logical but if you do that at least your rejection is factual.     

Edited by The Welsh Cruiser
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

If a position is presented factually, rationally and logically it's easy for it to be persuasive. If it isn't presented in that way, why should anyone bother to consider it seriously?

 

 

That's OK, you're free to believe that culture doesn't exist. People are free to believe in Gods, that the world is flat, that there's no such thing as culture, we're all free to do this. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

So you accept something if it's presented factually, rationally and logically but reject the same argument when it's made in a different way. 

No if something is factual and rational and is presented logically then it is easy to accept.  However your ideas on stereotyping are neither factual nor logical.  To me they don't seem rational either.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

That's OK, you're free to believe that culture doesn't exist.

 

Where did I ever say culture doesn't exist?

Don't bother looking, I didn't, so why make this comment? 

 

You really should brush up on your "fallacious argument" techniques. You have used most of them several times.

 

 

 

 

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

So you accept something if it's presented factually, rationally and logically but reject the same argument when it's made in a different way. That sounds neither rational nor logical but if you do that at least your rejection is factual.     

If one person presents an argument logically, rationaly and well argued people will invest time into the discussion and respond in a similar way, if the same argument is presented with snark, personal insults and sly digs people will more likely dismiss the argument and respond in a similar manner 

  • Greenie 1
  • Love 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Where did I ever say culture doesn't exist?

Don't bother looking, I didn't, so why make this comment? 

 

You really should brush up on your "fallacious argument" techniques. You have used most of them several times.

 

 

 

 

Dismissing the notion that different groups of people exhibit different tendencies of behaviour is dismissing the very notion of culture. 

 

So, do you accept that culture exists (beyond buildings, dress, arts and food) or not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Dismissing the notion that different groups of people exhibit different tendencies of behaviour is dismissing the very notion of culture. 

 

So, do you accept that culture exists (beyond buildings, dress, arts and food) or not?

 

I did not dismiss that notion, I rejected your over-generalised use of the term. You were not talking about cultures, you were talking about lazy stereotypes.

 

So, again, where did I say culture "doesn't exist"?

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I did not dismiss that notion, I rejected your over-generalised use of the term. You were not talking about cultures, you were talking about lazy stereotypes.

 

So, again, where did I say culture "doesn't exist"?

 

 

Does it exist, or not? It's a very simple question. If you refuse to answer we can only assume you believe that everyone, everywhere, behaves in exactly the same way. After all, you've put up an argument against several examples, each of which was based on significant personal experience.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Dismissing the notion that different groups of people exhibit different tendencies of behaviour is dismissing the very notion of culture. 

No it isn't as you seem to think Brits are gratuitously violent.   For that to be British culture it would have to be something that the majority of the nation indulged in.   I suspect there are only a handful of percent of the population which do, ergo not our culture as it isn't something the majority do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jerra said:

No it isn't as you seem to think Brits are gratuitously violent.   For that to be British culture it would have to be something that the majority of the nation indulged in.   I suspect there are only a handful of percent of the population which do, ergo not our culture as it isn't something the majority do.

If casual violence is fairly common in one country but vanishingly rare/ totally unheard of in most others, wise man will put two and two together and conclude that this is not random chaos. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, tree monkey said:

If one person presents an argument logically, rationaly and well argued people will invest time into the discussion and respond in a similar way, if the same argument is presented with snark, personal insults and sly digs people will more likely dismiss the argument and respond in a similar manner 

 

While others decide not to engage at all, with such posters.

  • Greenie 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

If casual violence is fairly common in one country but vanishingly rare/ totally unheard of in most others, wise man will put two and two together and conclude that this is not random chaos. 

If someone proposes such a notion, the wise man  will conclude fairly quickly that the proposer is an idiot with a total disregard for any evidence that counters his preconceived opinion and any knowledge whatsoever of any country than his own, as such a proposal is such absolute nonsense it's hardly worth discussing, so I won't.

NB I use the male pronoun throughout as it's unlikely any woman would make such a stupid statement, as their gender is likely to suffer such casual violence in every single nation under the sun.

  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 16/11/2021 at 21:09, Jerra said:

No it isn't as you seem to think Brits are gratuitously violent.   For that to be British culture it would have to be something that the majority of the nation indulged in.   I suspect there are only a handful of percent of the population which do, ergo not our culture as it isn't something the majority do.

I too believe that brits are more likely cause random acts of violence(no reward) or vandalism compared to east asians. It does not mean all or majority of brits are like that. Now it is possible that my belief is unfounded and I would yield to a well researched data which suggests otherwise but I dont think am the only one in making generalisation about a group of people based on limited experience. Thats what humans and even other animals do to survive & prosper(finding pattern in seemingly random events)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

I too believe that brits are more likely cause random acts of violence(no reward) or vandalism compared to east asians.

I do have to say some of the footage coming out of China showing state sponsored intimidation, bullying and attacks on foreigners is quite sinister. It seems the country is suppressing not only opposition parties, but also any negative story home grown journalists, any foreign journalists, and  now anyone speaking out abuse. The amount of state sponsored attack bots on social media now is incredible on Twitter, not needed on Weibo as that is sate run anyway. 

Nothing negative can come out, there is no bad in China, but lots in the rest of the world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, matty40s said:

I do have to say some of the footage coming out of China showing state sponsored intimidation, bullying and attacks on foreigners is quite sinister. It seems the country is suppressing not only opposition parties, but also any negative story home grown journalists, any foreign journalists, and  now anyone speaking out abuse. The amount of state sponsored attack bots on social media now is incredible on Twitter, not needed on Weibo as that is sate run anyway. 

Nothing negative can come out, there is no bad in China, but lots in the rest of the world.

I see that Peng Shuai has retracted her allegation of sexual assault by a senior Chinese official. Or perhaps more accurately, someone else has, on her apparent behalf. Still, we shouldn't say anything against China, that would be racist. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I see that Peng Shuai has retracted her allegation of sexual assault by a senior Chinese official. Or perhaps more accurately, someone else has, on her apparent behalf. Still, we shouldn't say anything against China, that would be racist. 

They can fook  off, she has been silenced otherwise 30 years in a CCP jail/reconditioning centre. Two videos showing her having dinner with a date hashed out...pretending to show normality released via Chinagov twitter, but nothing released on internal Weibo...cant let 1.2billion citizens know the truth can we.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I see that Peng Shuai has retracted her allegation of sexual assault by a senior Chinese official. Or perhaps more accurately, someone else has, on her apparent behalf. Still, we shouldn't say anything against China, that would be racist. 

I expect an allegation of sexual assault against a high ranking politician in China has about as much chance of success as it would in the UK. Or, in fact, virtually any allegation of sexual assault or rape in the UK. I don't think nationality makes much difference.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I expect an allegation of sexual assault against a high ranking politician in China has about as much chance of success as it would in the UK. Or, in fact, virtually any allegation of sexual assault or rape in the UK. I don't think nationality makes much difference.

Fair enough. I guess the difference is that those making such allegations in Britain don't get porked.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I see that Peng Shuai has retracted her allegation of sexual assault by a senior Chinese official. Or perhaps more accurately, someone else has, on her apparent behalf. Still, we shouldn't say anything against China, that would be racist. 

 

I don't recall anybody saying that the Chinese government can't be criticised because that would be racist. (At least not since I was a student, and not any non-Chinese people even then)

 

I do recall somebody being very keen to jump into other threads to insist that laws in other countries shouldn't be criticised because it's their culture, and apparent cultural differences make even the most obviously terrible laws and practises there beyond our comprehension. Still, perhaps there is some very reasonable explanation why China is an exception to this, like China not having culture?

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 20/11/2021 at 21:42, The Welsh Cruiser said:

I see that Peng Shuai has retracted her allegation of sexual assault by a senior Chinese official. Or perhaps more accurately, someone else has, on her apparent behalf. Still, we shouldn't say anything against China, that would be racist. 

Once again your usual attempts to trivialise racism (which invariably fails). Criticism of China has as much to do with racism as criticism of Israel has to do with anti-Semitism,(i.e. feck all). We are all free to offer whatever criticism we may wish of the actions of any Nations's Government, it is only when such as you decide that people of a given country all have the same characteristics (which is clearly a false narrative since every country has people with all manner of 'characteristics' from altruism to base criminality) that racism can be seen to raise it's ugly head.

 

If I criticise the military coup in Myanmar is that 'racist'? only in the mind of an idiot.

Edited by Wanderer Vagabond
  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Once again your usual attempts to trivialise racism (which invariably fails). Criticism of China has as much to do with racism as criticism of Israel has to do with anti-Semitism,(i.e. feck all). We are all free to offer whatever criticism we may wish of the actions of any Nations's Government, it is only when such as you decide that people of a given country all have the same characteristics (which is clearly a false narrative since every country has people with all manner of 'characteristics' from altruism to base criminality) that racism can be seen to raise it's ugly head.

 

If I criticise the military coup in Myanmar is that 'racist'? only in the mind of an idiot.

Anti Israel government/ anti Semitism has a dividing line barely thicker than a human hair, mainly down to woke folk who spend half of their lives looking for racism, when none exists. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, The Welsh Cruiser said:

Anti Israel government/ anti Semitism has a dividing line barely thicker than a human hair, mainly down to woke folk who spend half of their lives looking for racism, when none exists. 

You will find that it is the 'woke' people that you object to that are most likely to be critical of Israel, since Israel repeatedly re-elect extreme right wing governments, those on the right of the political spectrum tend to be more supportive of their dire treatment of the Palestinians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

You will find that it is the 'woke' people that you object to that are most likely to be critical of Israel, since Israel repeatedly re-elect extreme right wing governments, those on the right of the political spectrum tend to be more supportive of their dire treatment of the Palestinians.

I know, left wing hatred of anything connected with Judaism goes back to the Russian revolution. It has nothing to do with the political persuasion of the leaders of Israel.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.