A Beta 43 overheating saga.

[Alway Swilby]

A tale of our Beta 43 cooling system. I'm not really asking any question but posting for people's interest and any comments.

 

Our boat was new in 2016 fitted with a Beta 43. It had red antifreeze in it from new as installed by the builder. We started cruising in the spring of 2017. In November 2018 I had the antifreeze changed by a reputable boatyard.

In August 2019 I noticed a lot of coolant in the engine bilge that had come from a loose fitting wobbling about where the calorifier hose connects to the engine.

 

 

The header tank level was well down. I refilled the header tank with about 3 or 4 litres of some antifreeze I'd bought from Midland Chandlers. It turns out this antifreeze was for winterising fresh water systems so didn't have any anti corrosion stuff in it. Anyway we cruised on. In October of that year whilst heading upstream on the Thames east of Abingdon the engine overheat alarm sounded and again there was a load of coolant in the bilge. The header tank was empty. I refilled it with water (I didn't have any antifreeze) and limped slowly to a mooring at Abingdon. At slow revs the temperature was ok but on increasing them the temp guage crept up. I called out RCR. At first the thermostat was removed but that didn't fix things. The pipe from the bottom of the skin tank to the gearbox oil cooler was removed and there was a load of rusty crud in there. Here's another picture.

 

 

So that was all cleared out but not thoroughly flushed out, the RCR chap didn't think it necessary. It was refilled with 50% antifreeze and all seemed well again.

 

A couple more times over the next 2 years that calorifier connection fitting came loose (does anyone else have this problem?) but I'm pretty sure that I kept the 50% mixture ok when refilling.

 

Step forward to a three weeks ago (so October 2021) whilst cruising the Aire & Calder I notice the temperature creeping up above normal again.  There were no leaks evident and the header tank was full but the temp was still high and the water in the calorifier was only tepid. RCR were called again. This time the system was properly flushed out with a pressure washer and running a hose through the skin tank for a couple of hours. The system was then refilled with water to test it but it still overheated. So the water pump was taken off. Here it is and it's fairly obvious this was the problem.

 

 

Only 1.5 impellers instead of 6! So RCR ordered a new pump direct from Beta. The new one looks a bit different:

 

 

 

All is now well and working as it should and has 50% antifreeze in the system.

 

So where did all the crud come from? I suppose I could have been a bit lax in fastidiously making sure the antifreeze mix was ok and maybe that funny stuff from Midland Chandlers without anti corrosion stuff in it was a problem. But I'll certainly be more careful about it now and hope it hasn't done anything else serious inside the engine or skin tank.

 

 

[Alway Swilby]

And thanks to @ditchcrawler for prompting me to make this post.

[Alan de Enfield]

It happens :

 

We had a similar event ourselves this year :

 

Impellor that was in the pump, compared to a new one :

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by Alan de Enfield

[Ex Brummie]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It happens :

 

We had a similar event ourselves this year :

 

Impellor that was in the pump, compared to a new one :

 

 

I was under the impression that impellers like this were an annual service replacement 'whether they need it or not'. Certainly I do mine at least bi-annually after it has sat there stationary over winter. Some winterisation schedules I've seen specify its removal for the period.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Ex Brummie said:

I was under the impression that impellers like this were an annual service replacement 'whether they need it or not'. Certainly I do mine at least bi-annually after it has sat there stationary over winter. Some winterisation schedules I've seen specify its removal for the period.

 

Yes they are, but sometimes 'stuff' happens.

Due to the very dry Summer  and the fact we were on neap tides and being the height of Summer & there were a lot of boat movements the water in the marina is about 6-10 feet lower than normal, on the way to the lock we were stirring up the 3 or 4 feet of rotting leaves and vegitation, being 'sea-water' cooled the filter was totally blocked by the time we had travelled the 200 yards to the Lock.

No water going in meant impeller 'burnt' away as it had no water-cooling / lubrication. 

[ditchcrawler]

But I have never seen a steel one fall apart before 

[David Mack]

And where are the missing bits?

[StephenA]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But I have never seen a steel one fall apart before 

 

And where have the blades gone.......

[Bod]

Mrs Bod had a car that overheated for no reason. 
Turned out the water pump vanes had corroded away.  The car in previous ownership hadn’t had the antifreeze changed, and the anti corrosion part had worn out,  hence the rust eating the vanes. 
 

Bod

[Bee]

17 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But I have never seen a steel one fall apart before 

Nor me. I would guess that the broken off vanes are lodged in the end of the heat exchanger having passed through the water pump (the one with a rubber impeller) You really ought to take the end cover off the heat exchanger and check. Oh, hang on, you are keel cooled so that's not relevant but do you have a hydraulic g/box?  the oil cooler might have the missing bits in it.  My Beta 43 collects bits of rubber vane, shrimps and weed in the heat exchanger ends but its canal water / heat exch cooled.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Bee

[Cheshire cat]

Interesting story.

Originally it had pink stuff in it which protects the engine for five years so will still have been doing its stuff in 2018 when it was swapped out. 

 

One way or another the impeller has been eaten after just three years (2018 - 2021) and there is no discernible corrosion of the waterpump casting.

 

Those vanes look substantial. I can't get my head around the idea they would corrode away to nothing in three years

[Cheshire cat]

Just had a look at Midland Chandlers. The stuff they sell for winterising fresh water systems does contain anti corrosion inhibitor.

 

Looking at your original picture the connector is leaking rusty water. I'd say there was very little anti freeze in the engine at that point. Even if you added 4 litres of the Midland Chandler stuff you should still have had better than a 25% mixture which would have inhibited corrosion to some extent.

[Alan de Enfield]

15 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

Interesting story.

Originally it had pink stuff in it which protects the engine for five years so will still have been doing its stuff in 2018 when it was swapped out. 

 

One way or another the impeller has been eaten after just three years (2018 - 2021) and there is no discernible corrosion of the waterpump casting.

 

Those vanes look substantial. I can't get my head around the idea they would corrode away to nothing in three years

 

This huge amount of rust came from somwhere

 

 

[GUMPY]

At least with an indirectly cooled engine you know exactly where the impeller bits will be.

 

 

 

Blocking the tubes of the heat exchanger.

 

 

Need to remove my impeller for the winter tomorrow ☹️

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Loddon said:

At least with an indirectly cooled engine you know exactly where the impeller bits will be.

 

 

 

Blocking the tubes of the heat exchanger.

 

 

Need to remove my impeller for the winter tomorrow ☹️

 

or an elbow in the raw water system.

[robtheplod]

I looked at finding mine a while ago and came to the conclusion i didn't have one - its a Beta 43 so maybe i have????

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by robtheplod

[Alway Swilby]

34 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

This huge amount of rust came from somwhere

 

 

 

This was from the first breakdown. The cooling system worked fine for another two years after this picture was taken.

1 hour ago, Bee said:

Nor me. I would guess that the broken off vanes are lodged in the end of the heat exchanger having passed through the water pump (the one with a rubber impeller) You really ought to take the end cover off the heat exchanger and check. Oh, hang on, you are keel cooled so that's not relevant but do you have a hydraulic g/box?  the oil cooler might have the missing bits in it.  My Beta 43 collects bits of rubber vane, shrimps and weed in the heat exchanger ends but its canal water / heat exch cooled.

 

It is a PRM 150 gearbox. The oil cooler was removed and flushed out, it looked like this:

 

[Alway Swilby]

1 hour ago, Cheshire cat said:

Interesting story.

Originally it had pink stuff in it which protects the engine for five years so will still have been doing its stuff in 2018 when it was swapped out. 

 

One way or another the impeller has been eaten after just three years (2018 - 2021) and there is no discernible corrosion of the waterpump casting.

 

Those vanes look substantial. I can't get my head around the idea they would corrode away to nothing in three years

Well, I'm presuming the builder put pink antifreeze in it and I wouldn't think that they didn't. They are a reputable well known builder and they put pink stuff in the central heating system.  But I didn't actually see the engine installation happen so I don't know for sure.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Alway Swilby

[Alway Swilby]

19 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I looked at finding mine a while ago and came to the conclusion i didn't have one - its a Beta 43 so maybe i have????

What, a water pump? It's behind the pulley that the fan belt goes round (although there won't actually be a fan of course 🙂

 

[Tony Brooks]

I think there is some confusion here. The vast majority of steel narrow boats use tank cooling with a dry exhaust so there is no heat exchanger. There may be a gearbox oil cooler but they are normally smaller and with different end caps to the one the OP showed.

 

If it is tank cooled it is also very unlikely to have a rubber impeller pump such as Alan showed.

 

 

 

 

[Cheshire cat]

49 minutes ago, Alway Swilby said:

Well, I'm presuming the builder put pink antifreeze in it and I wouldn't think that they didn't. They are a reputable well known builder and they put pink stuff in the central heating system.  But I didn't actually see the engine installation happen so I don't know for sure.

 

At this point you can only put it down to experience but I think someone let you down. It's a good illustration of what can happen though if you don't have adequate protection. 

[john.k]

Ive never seen rust that looked like the OPs ......did you apply a flame to it.....it looks like some kind of residue ,like water based paint tipped into the tank........One piece of broken casting the size of a thumbnail resting in the engineside oil cooler of an Isuzu engine rubbed a hole in the oilcooler element ,cost $1100 for the cooler element ,plus fitting.

[Ex Brummie]

3 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

If it is tank cooled it is also very unlikely to have a rubber impeller pump such as Alan showed.

 

 

 

 

There was at least one builder around the West Mids who put in BMC's with a Bowman heat exchanger and a Jabsco pump around the skin tanks. I would think the crud has come from the skin tanks, and that there are many craft with thin steel in that area.

[john.k]

The Jabsco pumps can get up very high pressures,and its common in inboards with V8 petrol motors for water to be forced past head gaskets into the engine oil if there is an outlet blockage.

[Alway Swilby]

1 hour ago, Ex Brummie said:

There was at least one builder around the West Mids who put in BMC's with a Bowman heat exchanger and a Jabsco pump around the skin tanks. I would think the crud has come from the skin tanks, and that there are many craft with thin steel in that area.

One theory is that the millscale wasn't shot blasted off the steel when the hull was built and has subsequently flaked off from within the skin tank.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Alway Swilby