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Experiment to Reduce internal frost/condensation/simple double glazing project.


Kinver Canopies

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Hi All, Happy Monday.

 

Just putting the feelers out there, I am just trying a simple experiment on my friends boat to try and help with condensation and internal ice on windows using magnets and our window material.   I'd love peoples thoughts to see if it's an avenue to proceed down. I've attached a link to a simple youtube video to show the prototype.  Any feedback would be great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akIHn_0afIY&list=UUM37RounHgsVRypZTysatOw&index=1

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I think we will have to wait and see if it works. My suspicion is that it won’t make much difference because the air is not trapped between the plastic sheet and the window, it can circulate. And therefore the degree of insulation will be minimal. It might even be that there is no air gap between the windows and the plastic sheet, ie minimal additional insulation only from the thickness of the plastic sheet. And of course keeping the internal glass temperature higher by means of insulation is the only way to stop ice and condensation forming.

 

But the proof of the pudding etc, and so I’ll wait with interest!

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6 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think we will have to wait and see if it works. My suspicion is that it won’t make much difference because the air is not trapped between the plastic sheet and the window, it can circulate. And therefore the degree of insulation will be minimal. It might even be that there is no air gap between the windows and the plastic sheet, ie minimal additional insulation only from the thickness of the plastic sheet. And of course keeping the internal glass temperature higher by means of insulation is the only way to stop ice and condensation forming.

 

But the proof of the pudding etc, and so I’ll wait with interest!

I think it will do the job of keeping the frost off as the glass will be warmer as there will be warm air escaping out of the hopper windows to warm the air very slightly between the surfaces, I suppose a lot will depend if the north wind blows in between the sheets and the steel, maybe continues strip magnets would be better. Interesting experiment without to much outlay.

 

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11 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

I think we will have to wait and see if it works. My suspicion is that it won’t make much difference because the air is not trapped between the plastic sheet and the window, it can circulate. And therefore the degree of insulation will be minimal. It might even be that there is no air gap between the windows and the plastic sheet, ie minimal additional insulation only from the thickness of the plastic sheet. And of course keeping the internal glass temperature higher by means of insulation is the only way to stop ice and condensation forming.

 

But the proof of the pudding etc, and so I’ll wait with interest!

 

Ditto, my thoughts as well. I would say that  would like it to work because in many builds hopper window drop back stops prevent a flat sheet of plastic on the inside.

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I think it would work better if there were a continuous spacer between the plastic sheet and the window glass all round the edge, to provide a proper air gap between the 'panes' and to provide a reasonable seal against the wind. Could still be done magnetically, but would be a bit more involved.

Edited by David Mack
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3 hours ago, David Mack said:

I think it would work better if there were a continuous spacer between the plastic sheet and the window glass all round the edge, to provide a proper air gap between the 'panes' and to provide a reasonable seal against the wind. Could still be done magnetically, but would be a bit more involved.

It needs a few rubber suckers on the glass to create an air gap

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Its all about the seal innit. I don't think it will make very much difference. If there is an inert, dry gas or vacuum held between the two layers it would be brilliant - no chance of anything like that being possible though. Maybe a neoprene foam ring stuck to the acrylic (?) sheet so that it touches the window frame and the overlapping acrylic stuck down with magnets, that would contain a bit of 'dead' air within it.  We do something similar but with mosquito netting and magnets so we can have windows open in the evening, works well but the netting and magnets stick themselves into a ball of chaos if we aren't careful how we put it all away.

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6 hours ago, Kinver Canopies said:

Hi All, Happy Monday.

 

Just putting the feelers out there, I am just trying a simple experiment on my friends boat to try and help with condensation and internal ice on windows using magnets and our window material.   I'd love peoples thoughts to see if it's an avenue to proceed down. I've attached a link to a simple youtube video to show the prototype.  Any feedback would be great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akIHn_0afIY&list=UUM37RounHgsVRypZTysatOw&index=1

Is this a similar idea to the way of keeping a cars rear window frost free, before heated rear screens, were developed?

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I have one concern, and that is paint damage to the external surface.

Not only under the magnets themselves(rust enhancers), but the whole surface where the sheet covers the paintwork which will not get properly dry between wet spells and frosts.

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We use magnets to secure  covers over our leaky 1936 engine room doors.

It effects the paint even though there is a layer of plastic cover between the magnet and the paint.

On the roof ( raddle) there is a raised bobbly effect. On the gloss ( sides) it seems to dull.

 

The bobbling seems to go away over a couple of weeks.

The covers are smooth it’s not caused by an impression I dont think.

They are powerful magnets.

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15 hours ago, matty40s said:

I have one concern, and that is paint damage to the external surface.

Not only under the magnets themselves(rust enhancers), but the whole surface where the sheet covers the paintwork which will not get properly dry between wet spells and frosts.

 

I used to have magnetic signs on my van and it wasn't long before rust spots appeared underneath the magnets.

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21 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

And they are not gas filled sealed units

Just sheets of 3mm plastic, works well simple to fit. Idea nicked from a man* in Cambridge years ago for the previous boat.😉

Having said that cling film type sheet also works well on the inside.

 

 

* I've forgotten his name 😱

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As an aside, I mounted my insect mesh screens magnetically on the exterior of the hull (instead of the interior as they were designed), because I have those hopper windows that are fully removable, and when a window was opened its weight was falling against the mesh panel that was mounted a few inches away from it, thus stressing the mesh material and also reducing the opening of the window by at least 50%..  

 

In terms of this anti-frost idea, this is only my second winter aboard so it might well be lack of experience, but I can't remember seeing frost on the inside of the windows. 

When its cold enough for frost to form, I would always have my coal stove on overnight (with at least one window left open), and that seems to keep the interior warm and dry enough to prevent any condensation/frost.

 

That said, last winter wasnt a particularly bad one, and a hard winter might see frost appearing- and with hopper windows, mounting on the outside like this is less of a faff.

Also, mine is a 50ft boat so the heat doesnt have so far to circulate. I can imagine longer boats might have more of an issue to deal with. 

 

Edited by Tony1
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I have external window covers, same idea, makes a massive difference to temperature and condensation...

The one in the attached pic is a hatch but Window covers are the same...

 

 

20201206_160822.jpg

 

Edit:

If you stand it off the window so there is an air gap it works even better... I use foam pipe lagging cut in half lengthways.

Edited by Quattrodave
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On 08/11/2021 at 13:28, David Mack said:

I think it would work better if there were a continuous spacer between the plastic sheet and the window glass all round the edge, to provide a proper air gap between the 'panes' and to provide a reasonable seal against the wind. Could still be done magnetically, but would be a bit more involved.

 Yeah, my first thought is thin strip of rubber glued to the inside of the plastic around the edges. Magnets on the outside; rubber gives a bit of extra protection to the steel underneath.

 

If you could make it air/watertight it would double as extra protection from slow and difficult to trace leaks around window frames...

 

 

 

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