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Toilets!


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On 06/11/2021 at 11:07, Jane Cartridge said:

first of all thank you to everyone who responded to my enquiry about buying through a broker. It was very helpful.

 

So sorry to revisit a well worn topic, but...

 

1) If you are continuous cruising how practical is a cassette toilet? I reckon from my caravan experience to empty every 4-5 days (more frequent if I have hubby aboard!) So I would have to plan to be near an Elsan point rather regularly. 

 

2) I am soon to view a boat that has a pump out toilet - can anyone advise me the best way to have its holding tank checked?

 

3) and no I am not considering a compost loo until the CRT has been able to sort out the dumping problems.

 

Thanks in advance.

Our experience:

 

We had a Thetford cassette toilet in our caravan which I had to empty every other day, the cassette being the same 17 lt type used on boats. When we brought a narrowboat we insisted on a pumpout system. This I empty every 3 weeks but could be pushed to 4. We have a Thetford porterpoty stored away for emergency use, so far unused. We have had two problems with the system, the control panel failed after a couple of week meaning that we had to add flush water manually for a while. The second fault required the non-return valve to be replaced; not as bad as it sounds and a DIY task. What else? The toilet is quite noisy when flushing. Water usage is not an issue but then we do have a 200 gallon water tank. There is a cost to pumping out, which has varied between £8 and £15 plus about £8 for Elsan fluid but that would be required in a cassette.

 

If we were buying another boat I would specify a pumpout again, accepting the extra cost over the labour of storing and lugging cassettes around.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Idle Days said:

 

If we were buying another boat I would specify a pumpout again, accepting the extra cost over the labour of storing and lugging cassettes around.

 

 

You don't have to store your pump-out tank?

 

Most people don't lug cassettes around very far. They lug them out of the boat and onto a trolley. Some cassettes even have their own built-in wheels and trolley handle.

 

It's all down to personal opinion, but personally having had both for a number of years I'd never go back to a pump-out. 

On 06/11/2021 at 11:14, mrsmelly said:

A cassette is ideal for a continuous cruiser. As you are moving about all the time, you will pass an elsan point most days ;)

 

Also a cassette would be ideal for a person called Jane Cartridge. 

Edited by blackrose
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8 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I appear to find myself in the odd position of being invited to argue in favour of cassette toilets versus pump outs, when my ideal preference from those two would actually be a pump out.

 

At the risk of reigniting the whole debate of pump out vs cassette, which feels as if it has been raging since the time of King Alfred, I will say that a leaking 20 litre cassette is a much, much less horrific problem to deal with than a leak in a 100 litre tank full of faeces, or within its associated pipework.

And on my travels so far, I've not seen a CRT pump out that was manned- so I'm not sure that everyone's experience will be that it is normally done by somebody else. 

I personally would happily pay a few quid not to have to deal with it, but there are many who for whatever reason do the pump out themselves.

 

My view- and I will say based on very limited knowledge- is that pump outs are a brilliant solution, but only until they start to leak or have some other problem.

At that point they have the potential to turn into a disgusting nightmare. 

 

But with that said, neither system would be my ideal preference, to be honest, so I'm not majorly inclined to defend either.

 

 

 

If you install a pumpout toilet, how often you have to empty it depends on how big the tank is. With two of us we can get over 6 weeks cruising between pump outs. This would suit your style of cruising far better than cassettes. I am fairly certain that there are far more pumpout emptying facilities in private boatyards than the C & RT ones  which are all, I think, self service.  The coal boats mostly do pump outs I think. 

 

Regarding loo tanks leaking I must admit that while the thought of this is pretty awful, I don't think it is a regular occurance.

 

OK installing a pumpout toilet will be more expensive than installing a cassette type toilet but to me not having to visit any elsans clutching a suitcase and holding my nose while I gag and empty it makes it a no brainer. 

 

I don't see C & RT installing faclities for disposing of solids from composting toilets  any time soon so I wouldn't hold your breath on that one..

 

haggis 

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33 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

You don't have to store your pump-out tank?

 

Most people don't lug cassettes around very far. They lug them out of the boat and onto a trolley. Some cassettes even have their own built-in wheels and trolley handle.

 

It's all down to personal opinion, but personally having had both for a number of years I'd never go back to a pump-out. 

 

Also a cassette would be ideal for a person called Jane Cartridge. 

This is what I have laughed at for years from many people. All the crap ( lol ) about humping cassettes for miles etc etc. When out ccing we pulled up at the elsan point and carried the cassette a few seconds and emptied it, back on board and off again whilst the adjacent person was still unraveling the pumpout machines hose. If in a marina or similar use a wheelbarrow or trolley, a doddle. 

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11 hours ago, Tony1 said:

 

I thought my opinion of cassette toilets was clear from my earlier post- but in case it did not come across clearly I will restate it- I loathe them. 

 

And if cost were not a factor, I would have a pump out toilet installed tomorrow (although I would add that I'm not sure there is that huge a difference between several small 'suitcases' of waste, versus one very large 'suitcase' that is placed under your bed. The principle involved is not that different- it seems to me to be a matter of dimensions). 

 

But cost is a factor- a very big factor. And as I explained above, I feel that the future of separating toilets is not yet 100% clear.

I feel that in the longer term, CRT will recognise the environmental advantages of separating toilets, and will find the money to provide suitable composting bins. 

 

So my adoption of a cassette toilet is something that I fervently hope will be a temporary measure, until separating toilets are fully catered for by CRT

If I knew for sure that separating toilets were banned for the next 15 years, I might give serious thought to a pump out. 

 

No, best not

 

There's a huge long discussion about this elsewhere, the summary of which is that CART are unlikely to spend money they don't have to install a third toilet waste system to add to the two existing ones (Elsan and pumpouts) which get the waste into the existing sewage system, and if they did it wouldn't be free and the collection/disposal cost would be similar to pumpouts because somebody has to be paid to do it (Who? CART employees? Which ones? Marina staff?). If private companies provide it then the cost would very likely be higher than pumpouts. If somebody has to drive around the country emptying and servicing disposal points this isn't environmentally friendly.

 

Composting toilets are a great solution where the waste can be properly composted by the people who generate it (like peterboat), no need to transport it anywhere and no money has to change hands, no chemicals or waste treatment needed, end product goes onto the flower/vegetable garden. Excellent idea 🙂

 

For boats who can't do this because they don't have the landside space or move around the system they're not a great solution, the environmental and monetary costs of disposing of the result make them less environmentally friendly than the existing systems which use the existing sewage system. I'd say the chances of a canal-network-wide system for disposing of non-composted toilet waste are currently zero, and don't see why this should change in the future.

 

Separating/composting toilets aren't banned for people who use them properly, what is banned from the end of this year is disposing of the waste in the CART waste bins.

Edited by IanD
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1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

This is what I have laughed at for years from many people. All the crap ( lol ) about humping cassettes for miles etc etc. When out ccing we pulled up at the elsan point and carried the cassette a few seconds and emptied it, back on board and off again  

But did it take you a month to get from one disposal point to the next?

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

If you install a pumpout toilet, how often you have to empty it depends on how big the tank is. With two of us we can get over 6 weeks cruising between pump outs. This would suit your style of cruising far better than cassettes. I am fairly certain that there are far more pumpout emptying facilities in private boatyards than the C & RT ones  which are all, I think, self service.  The coal boats mostly do pump outs I think. 

 

Regarding loo tanks leaking I must admit that while the thought of this is pretty awful, I don't think it is a regular occurance.

 

OK installing a pumpout toilet will be more expensive than installing a cassette type toilet but to me not having to visit any elsans clutching a suitcase and holding my nose while I gag and empty it makes it a no brainer. 

 

I don't see C & RT installing faclities for disposing of solids from composting toilets  any time soon so I wouldn't hold your breath on that one..

 

haggis 

 

From talking to boatyards (and boaters) who install and maintain them, by far the biggest problems with pumpout toilets are due to bad installations and blockages due to inappropriate use.

 

If you're installing one on your boat and get it done properly by somebody who knows what they're doing and doesn't cut corners (and puts a decent size tank in), the first isn't an issue. If you're the one who puts stuff down it, the second shouldn't be either.

 

Put a cheap pumpout in with corners cut on tank/piping/installation and then put wet-wipes down it and you can expect a world of toilet trouble. Do it properly and it's the least unpleasant way to dispose of your waste -- the running cost is a few pounds a week, which seems well worth it to me. If this is simply unaffordable or there's no room to fit a decent sized black tank, cassettes are available... 😉

Edited by IanD
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On our boat, with a pumpout I'm constantly wondering when we'll get problems as the whole process is so mechanical/electrical - loads to go wrong...  Simpler the better!

Rob, 

If I'm reading your avatar pic correctly, you have no. 7 in the fleet of which we had no. 8. In over 12 years of cruising, we never had a problem with the pumpout process at the end of a cruise nor needing intermediate pumpouts on a fortnight's cruise with a crew of 4+. At the input end of the system, the principle of "don't put anything down here that's not been eaten first" served us well. I have no memory of any problems - major or minor - in all the time we had the boat.

JCO

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7 minutes ago, JCO said:

Rob, 

If I'm reading your avatar pic correctly, you have no. 7 in the fleet of which we had no. 8. In over 12 years of cruising, we never had a problem with the pumpout process at the end of a cruise nor needing intermediate pumpouts on a fortnight's cruise with a crew of 4+. At the input end of the system, the principle of "don't put anything down here that's not been eaten first" served us well. I have no memory of any problems - major or minor - in all the time we had the boat.

JCO

Thats good to know!  thanks!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have a Thetford Excellence which is a bit bigger than the standard, lasts 7 days or more, if I had a hubby there would be a tiny port potti as well, he would pee in it and empty it, semi separating.

I have cat litter in case of dire emergency, never used it yet.

It can be very annoying if an elsan is out of commission en route.

Summer and winter I find boatyards are very obliging as long as one buys something off them. 

KYBO

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1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I have a Thetford Excellence which is a bit bigger than the standard, lasts 7 days or more, if I had a hubby there would be a tiny port potti as well, he would pee in it and empty it, semi separating.

I have cat litter in case of dire emergency, never used it yet.

It can be very annoying if an elsan is out of commission en route.

Summer and winter I find boatyards are very obliging as long as one buys something off them. 

KYBO

Re--Cat Litter.  Remember not to dabble it about with your paws too much after you've been on it and scatter the litter all about everywhere. 

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On 06/11/2021 at 15:57, Tracy D'arth said:

A proper sea toilet on a tank, minimal water usage, weeks between emptying with your own pump out kit, costs nothing.

 

Interesting, I'm going to be doing a bathroom refurb soon, is there a proper sea toilet you can recommend?

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2 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Interesting, I'm going to be doing a bathroom refurb soon, is there a proper sea toilet you can recommend?

A Baby Blakes.  All bronze throughout. Very expensive new, or used ones rebuilt as there are all parts available for all models since 1948. You only need to buy one in a lifetime.

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8 minutes ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Interesting, I'm going to be doing a bathroom refurb soon, is there a proper sea toilet you can recommend?

 

We have two of these (porcelain version) and very happy with performance and comfort of them

 

RM Toilet RM69 Manual Twist & Lock ABS Bowl & Seat With White Handle (104.W) (cactusnav.com)

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1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Lavac, though look rather risky compared to Baby Blake, they are very efficient, but I think they discharge in to the sea, don't you need a holding tank? 

No reason not to discharge into a tank as usual. You need a small tank for flushing water or use the grey water from the basin waste.

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2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Lavac, though look rather risky compared to Baby Blake, they are very efficient, but I think they discharge in to the sea, don't you need a holding tank? 

 

NO

 

Ours are connected to via a valve to a holding tank or direct discharge.

 

Its not the toilet that determines holding tank or not, its the way they are plumbed in.

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2 hours ago, Quattrodave said:

 

Interesting, I'm going to be doing a bathroom refurb soon, is there a proper sea toilet you can recommend?

I've had a Jabsco manual pump toilet for 20 years+. They're available with a compact or standard bowl and manual or electric flush. Extremely reliable, I've only had it block once and that was 'operator error', If needed spares are readily available. 

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12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

NO

 

Ours are connected to via a valve to a holding tank or direct discharge.

 

Its not the toilet that determines holding tank or not, its the way they are plumbed in.

But you're not on the canals, where sea toilets are banned...

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3 minutes ago, IanD said:

But you're not on the canals, where sea toilets are banned...

 

Thats not actually true is it !

 

The BSS requires that any sea toilets should be 'switched over' to the holding tank, as our was when we were on the Rivers / canals.

 

9.2.1 Is a closeable valve fitted in the discharge line of any toilet appliance or toilet holding tank with overboard discharge? R

Check all toilets and toilet holding tanks for the presence of an overboard discharge line. If present, check for the presence and condition of a closeable valve installed in the discharge line.

All toilets and toilet holding tanks having an overboard discharge line must have a closeable valve fitted in the discharge line.

The valve and connections must be complete and leak‐free.

NOTE – valves must not be operated.

NOTE – the diverter valves to toilet holding tanks not capable of being discharged overboard satisfy this check

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